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You will never walk again, Bran, but you will fly.


OtherFromAnotherMother

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15 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

 

Bloodraven is is saying Bran won't walk the world of men, but he'll fly(die). After all, "all men must die"!

With respect to Bran, the choice is "fly or die". I'd say flight is a symbol put opposite of death. We see Varamyr take a short flight to avoid the death of his own body. Drogon flies Dany out of dangerous Mereen. Even Tyrion figuratively flies from the Eyrie when he goes free. Flight being a positive thing meaning the attainment of knowledge, it only makes sense that sheltered, slow-minded Sweetrobin treats flight as something terrifying.

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4 minutes ago, cgrav said:

With respect to Bran, the choice is "fly or die". I'd say flight is a symbol put opposite of death. We see Varamyr take a short flight to avoid the death of his own body. Drogon flies Dany out of dangerous Mereen. Even Tyrion figuratively flies from the Eyrie when he goes free. Flight being a positive thing meaning the attainment of knowledge, it only makes sense that sheltered, slow-minded Sweetrobin treats flight as something terrifying.

Lol. Poor Sweetrobin. 

To some of the literal-figurative interpreters: Doesn't it strike you strange that BR would be literal when speaking of walking then be figurative when speaking of flying in the same sentence?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but doesn't it bother you? Do we have any other examples of this in the text? 

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3 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Lol. Poor Sweetrobin. 

To some of the literal-figurative interpreters: Doesn't it strike you strange that BR would be literal when speaking of walking then be figurative when speaking of flying in the same sentence?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but doesn't it bother you? Do we have any other examples of this in the text? 

I don't find it odd. It's an effective dramatic device, as evidenced by our discussing the meaning of a single word. 

The first mention of "fly" is BR talking to Bran in the coma dream, which is obviously figurative. The line seems to be a direct reference to that, letting everyone know that BR was the 3EC. 

While I'm certain that the line in question here means figurative flight, I don't think that precludes literal flight at all.

Of course, Bran seems destined to put roots down in that cave, so I'm not sure how that would play out. Any literal flight would require being literally strapped to a flying object.

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18 minutes ago, cgrav said:

I don't find it odd. It's an effective dramatic device, as evidenced by our discussing the meaning of a single word. 

The first mention of "fly" is BR talking to Bran in the coma dream, which is obviously figurative. The line seems to be a direct reference to that, letting everyone know that BR was the 3EC. 

While I'm certain that the line in question here means figurative flight, I don't think that precludes literal flight at all.

Of course, Bran seems destined to put roots down in that cave, so I'm not sure how that would play out. Any literal flight would require being literally strapped to a flying object.

But this would contradict "but you will fly". Bran eventually "flies" in one of these dreams. If you are thinking BR means the dreaming version of "fly" then why would BR say you will fly? Bran has already done this. 

Don't you think BR means a different version of fly? Bran has already done the figurative version of fly. 

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Bran hasn't "flown" since his coma. Using the future tense doesn't exclude a past flight, it just means that the activity has not been continuous. Bran did fly once and he will fly again. The flying I believe refers to an astral projection that isn't tethered to a living animal, like warging. 

But there could be a more literal flight somewhere down the line. I don't know how or why that might happen, but it would not be the only time GRRM manifests his in-story prophesies both literally and symbolically.

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26 minutes ago, cgrav said:

Bran hasn't "flown" since his coma. Using the future tense doesn't exclude a past flight, it just means that the activity has not been continuous. Bran did fly once and he will fly again. The flying I believe refers to an astral projection that isn't tethered to a living animal, like warging. 

But there could be a more literal flight somewhere down the line. I don't know how or why that might happen, but it would not be the only time GRRM manifests his in-story prophesies both literally and symbolically.

But when BR says

 “You will never walk again, Bran,” the pale lips promised, “but you will fly.”

He makes mention that he won't walk again BUT you WILL fly. To me, BR is telling Bran he is going to do something new and better than walking.  Not something that he already has done. 

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16 hours ago, cgrav said:

With respect to Bran, the choice is "fly or die". I'd say flight is a symbol put opposite of death. We see Varamyr take a short flight to avoid the death of his own body. Drogon flies Dany out of dangerous Mereen. Even Tyrion figuratively flies from the Eyrie when he goes free. Flight being a positive thing meaning the attainment of knowledge, it only makes sense that sheltered, slow-minded Sweetrobin treats flight as something terrifying.

I was pretty clear i was being somewhat sarcastic with all this, because if you take it as metaphorical flight you can't really make any conclusions since it becomes so subjective... Also you are mixing the literal and figurative a lot...

Varamyr dies... Literal and figurative... Beginning with the flames engulfing his bird while he's in flight literally and figuratively...

Drogon is fire made flesh, a burning sword held above the world, death paid for his life and he's basically a flying flaming beast of death... Also literally killing as he leaves Mereen with Dany...

Tyrion escapes flying through the moon door like Lysa Arryn later does... Figuratively he flys from the Eyrie like the Night King "flys" down from the wall...

Wisdom often comes from the mouths of babes (and fools) so I'd be carful dismissing words just because of the speaker... Especially the heir of an ancient house whose keep has a door only accessible by flight... Probably wasn't always just a means of execution...

But flight is clearly terrifying for more than just sweet robin... Both in a literal and figurative sense...

Anyway my point is that if its figurative it's going to be very hard to have a discussion about it since these interpretations are all so subjective... Now it may also be figurative, but I think if we are going to arriviste some meaning to the statement at this point we have to assume it's a literal flight... How about these very selectively (and probably misleadingly) chosen quotes:

Twisted. I drew him forth myself. He was scaled like a lizard, blind, with the stub of a tail and small leather wings like the wings of a bat. When I touched him, the flesh sloughed off the bone, and inside he was full of graveworms and the stink of corruption. He had been dead for years.

When her arm grew weary, she sat with her legs over a high limb to catch her breath in the cool dark air, listening to the squeak of bats as they hunted. Through the leafy canopy she could see the bone-white branches of the heart tree. It looks just like the one in Winterfell from here. If only it had been . . . then when she climbed down she would have been home again, and maybe find her father sitting under the weirwood where he always sat.

As Hodor he explored the caves. He found chambers full of bones, shafts that plunged deep into the earth, a place where the skeletons of gigantic bats hung upside down from the ceiling.

He clung to the roof of the pit like some huge white bat, his claws dug deep into the burnt and crumbling bricks. Rhaegal, still chained, was gnawing on the carcass of a bull. The bones on the floor of the pit were deeper than the last time she had been down here, and the walls and floors were black and grey, more ash than brick.

Just rabble rousing mostly over here don't mind me...

 

 

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20 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

The last words in Bran II from DwD. 

I've been bothered by this for a while now and wanted to get some thoughts from people with more knowledge on the subject. 

BR tells Bran he will never walk again, but he will fly. On the surface it makes sense. Bran will never be able to walk, his legs will never work again. But, he will be able to skinchange into flying creatures  (ravens in the next Bran chapter) to fly. 

Here's what bothers me. BR already knows that Bran has been warging Summer, so he has already "walked" in the skinchange sense. If someone wanted to argue that we don't know if BR knows this, BR would certainly know that Bran WILL be able to skinchange into a walking being.

So the statement "but you will fly" could not apply to flying through a skinchange. BR would have to be saying Bran will actually fly, like on a dragon. This seems extremely unlikely at this point given Bran's location and an inability to travel easily. 

I see only two possible explanations here. 1) Martin made a mistake or 2) Bran will fly on a dragon. 

Am I missing something?  

 

I would say option one is the closest, but I don't think it's a mistake, more like artistic license. 

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21 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

The last words in Bran II from DwD. 

I've been bothered by this for a while now and wanted to get some thoughts from people with more knowledge on the subject. 

BR tells Bran he will never walk again, but he will fly. On the surface it makes sense. Bran will never be able to walk, his legs will never work again. But, he will be able to skinchange into flying creatures  (ravens in the next Bran chapter) to fly. 

Here's what bothers me. BR already knows that Bran has been warging Summer, so he has already "walked" in the skinchange sense. If someone wanted to argue that we don't know if BR knows this, BR would certainly know that Bran WILL be able to skinchange into a walking being.

So the statement "but you will fly" could not apply to flying through a skinchange. BR would have to be saying Bran will actually fly, like on a dragon. This seems extremely unlikely at this point given Bran's location and an inability to travel easily. 

I see only two possible explanations here. 1) Martin made a mistake or 2) Bran will fly on a dragon. 

Am I missing something?  

 

or he will end up trapped inside the mind of a dragon. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Seems the only argument made for a literal interpretation here is that otherwise BR is being inconsistent, and so the switch is weird. This seems an exceedingly narrow interpretative angle; the switch and the inconsistency is transparently intentional, and what enables him to make his ACTUAL point in a pithy, impactful expression..

Consider what BR has said if you do allow for reading this as a rhetorical figure: Bran thought still that his whole trek was about him and his narrow personal problem. No; Bran needs to come to terms with his physical disability and the understandable loss, but to rather take inspiration in the wonders that have been opened to him.

Bran showed complete misunderstanding of what he was even doing there, acting as if BR was some pro bono healer, and BR tried to put that finally to rest and instead to inspire him about the real task at hand ; the actual reason he came; greenseeing. And expressed so with a rather elegant rhetorical contrast.

The literal interpreration just gives a banal reading, a promise to Bran that he's gonna sit on some beast, with BR just being some random oracle handing out unrelated prophecies.

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29 minutes ago, WilliamDhalgren said:

Seems the only argument made for a literal interpretation here is that otherwise BR is being inconsistent, and so the switch is weird. This seems an exceedingly narrow interpretative angle; the switch and the inconsistency is transparently intentional, and what enables him to make his ACTUAL point in a pithy, impactful expression..

Consider what BR has said if you do allow for reading this as a rhetorical figure: Bran thought still that his whole trek was about him and his narrow personal problem. No; Bran needs to come to terms with his physical disability and the understandable loss, but to rather take inspiration in the wonders that have been opened to him.

Bran showed complete misunderstanding of what he was even doing there, acting as if BR was some pro bono healer, and BR tried to put that finally to rest and instead to inspire him about the real task at hand ; the actual reason he came; greenseeing. And expressed so with a rather elegant rhetorical contrast.

The literal interpreration just gives a banal reading, a promise to Bran that he's gonna sit on some beast, with BR just being some random oracle handing out unrelated prophecies.

There are a lot of really long sentences here. 

Are you saying that BR is being figurative with "fly"? Fly = greenseeing?

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There are a lot of really long sentences here.



Are you saying that BR is being figurative with "fly"? Fly = greenseeing?



effectively, yes; I agree with the posters above that see it as a reference to his coma dreams. And there, sequences about flying (and opening his 3rd eye) are about unlocking his magical potential. Well, BR is about to finally fulfill that potential completely.

Bran's story was rather blatantly following a shamanistic arc, a sickness (shamanistic initiatory crisis), a close encounter with death that opens a person to the power of magic/spirits. Shaman that healed him(BR), who resolved or helped him resolve that crisis (fly or die) also training him to become a shaman himself. In the end, even feeds him a psychoactive substance to fully break through, as some shamanistic cultures do with whatever psychedelic plants and mushrooms happen to grow in their area.

When he flew out of his coma, he was tapping the same power and talent that BR now intends to further cultivate in him. How natural then for him to explain what he has in mind by calling that talent "flight" again! Even if it had nothing to do with locomotion.

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