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**WARNING DARK TOPIC** A sick/dark new twist to Assange losing his internet connection.


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5 minutes ago, Fez said:

Yes. No.

Assange doesn't get a free pass from the justice system. If he ever leaves or is expelled from diplomatic protection, he'll face his day in court like any other accused individual (although if he can run out the clock on the Swedish statute of limitations on rape, which will be in 2020, I'm not sure if there's any other charges he can face at that point). If he's innocent, a Swedish court will find it so; I'm sure he'll have a fantastic lawyer from some interested party.

And lots of UN groups do lots of dumb things. News at 11.

Can he run the clock that way?  If he's aware of the potential charge and is deliberately inhibiting the investigation by hiding in an embassy, surely that would serve to toll the Statute of Limitations?

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2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Can he run the clock that way?  If he's aware of the potential charge and is deliberately inhibiting the investigation by hiding in an embassy, surely that would serve to toll the Statute of Limitations?

It does actually work that way over here. Live on the run until the statute of limitations have run out and you're home free.

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4 minutes ago, Erik of Hazelfield said:

It does actually work that way over here. Live on the run until the statute of limitations have run out and you're home free.

No tolling statutes if someone is aware of charges and deliberately foiling attempts to bring the person to heel?  That's surprising.

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I am not sure if this is true or not, but:

Donald Trump's mail-servers are running Windows 2003 

If it is true, then I can speculate if Trump hasn't been hacked because there are no interested parties willing to do illegal shit to further the campaign.  Especially when there is lots of legally available, low hanging fruit, and Clinton is in the lead.  Just a guess tho.

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22 minutes ago, Fez said:

...I'm not sure if there's any other charges he can face at that point...

Short of any resulting from the ongoing investigation in the Bahamas, which may by now, for all I know, also involve the Canadian government and Interpol, as that's what toddandclare was calling for. I mean, why did the Ecuadorian embassy just now cut his internet access?

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22 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

No tolling statutes if someone is aware of charges and deliberately foiling attempts to bring the person to heel?  That's surprising.

Yep. He actually has already run out the clock on the sexual molestation and coercion charges, its just the suspicion of rape charge that's still hanging around for another four years.

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The Swedes have said that they are not legally allowed to give assurances that he would not be extradited in advance of any extradition request, but they have said they would not be legally allowed to extradite him to any country that has the death penalty, so the US is out. For some reason that's not good enough for him.

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It's amazing how the American public's perception of Assange has flipped in the last year. He used to be a traitor to the Neoconservatives and the Tea Parry people,  and a hero to the left of left lefties.

 

Guess the enemy of my enemy is my friend. 

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14 minutes ago, Hereward said:

The Swedes have said that they are not legally allowed to give assurances that he would not be extradited in advance of any extradition request, but they have said they would not be legally allowed to extradite him to any country that has the death penalty, so the US is out. For some reason that's not good enough for him.

I think its only that they wouldn't extradite him to any country where he might face the death penalty, not just that the country has the death penalty. The US does have an extradition treaty with Sweden, two of them actually, and they have been in force for decades. And I don't think there's any possible Federal US charge he could face that would result in the death penalty, so that's not an issue here.

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2 hours ago, OnionAhaiReborn said:

Sure is strange that you feel the need to attack my motives like this, but I'm not defending wikileaks/Assange in all things. I'm defending the specific choice to release the DNC/Podesta emails. In fact, I'm far less skeptical of the criminal allegations against Assange than you are. That doesn't delegitimize everything wikileaks has done. The argument that wikileaks ought to have leaked documents on Trump, I've already answered- it's the comment I made that mormont believes is beneath response. Perhaps you believe the same, since you don't address it either.

Yeah, I agree with this.

The problem with Wikileaks is not that they aren't handling Trump leaks. They aren't hackers, they aren't reporters, and they aren't informants. It's fairly silly to blame them for that.

I think releasing the Podesta emails is totally fair, though it's also clear that they're being used for geopolitical warfare, it's important to release. If HRC and the rest were smart they'd simply beat them to the punch. The Podesta emails are incredibly boring anyway, and once you learn that the cat's out of the bag the most valuable thing you could probably do is actually show openness and transparency.

However, blaming  them for attacking Clinton directly with respect to her health? Yeah, that's legitimately lame. Blaming them for doxxing Turkish and Afghan people? That's legitimately dangerous. When Snowden comes out against Wikileaks and says 'hey now, you've gone too far' you're probably on the wrong side of things. 

I think Wikileaks as a concept is incredibly valuable to a functioning democracy. I think Wikileaks as run by Assange is being used as a way to wage war against personal vendettas and shows incredibly poor judgment in punching down. 

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5 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I think Wikileaks as a concept is incredibly valuable to a functioning democracy. I think Wikileaks as run by Assange is being used as a way to wage war against personal vendettas and shows incredibly poor judgment in punching down. 

I agree with the second part. I'm not sure about the first part. How would you describe the concept of Wikileaks? What's its best purpose? I'm having some conceptualization problems there. 

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19 minutes ago, Fez said:

I think its only that they wouldn't extradite him to any country where he might face the death penalty, not just that the country has the death penalty. The US does have an extradition treaty with Sweden, two of them actually, and they have been in force for decades. And I don't think there's any possible Federal US charge he could face that would result in the death penalty, so that's not an issue here.

Badly phrased on my part. But the Espionage Act carries the possibility of the death penalty, does it not? Anyway, the Swedes have previously ruled that there can be no extradition for political offenses or acts connected with political offences, and have previously refused to extradite an escaped Soviet spy from the CIA for exactly that reason.

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18 minutes ago, Hereward said:

Badly phrased on my part. But the Espionage Act carries the possibility of the death penalty, does it not? Anyway, the Swedes have previously ruled that there can be no extradition for political offenses or acts connected with political offences, and have previously refused to extradite an escaped Soviet spy from the CIA for exactly that reason.

18 USC 794 is deathable, yes.

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Assange is very unsubtle in his distaste for American hegemony in foreign affairs and seems pretty obviously to have taken sides with Russia as a means of combatting that. I recall when the Panama Papers leaked and quite a few journalists made note of Putin's cronies being involved, he leapt to Putin's defense. It's been a couple of years now, at least, that Wikileaks has been amazingly silent about Russian political and foreign affairs despite the fact that it's rife with corruption.

That said, this accusation from the dating website is very, very dubious. They did submit a document to UN Global Compact, as part of their being a part of its agreement on online principles or what have you, but it seems like these documents are automatically posted to the public... which may be why the site was delisted from their registry for "integrity" issues, if they basically used the free platform of a UN-run website to lay on very, very thickly a number of unsubstantiated accusations about Assange and pedophilia.

If you read through the cache of that document, there are weird things throughout -- like the pains at which they stress the accusation comes from a family that has no "ties" to the U.S., Ecuador, Sweden, or the U.K. -- and ultimately their alleged court filing in the U.K. appears to be a civil suit rather than a criminal suit while they claim that there's a massive coverup in the Bahamas.

And then there's simply the oddity of this dating website claiming it was approached by Assange. This website seems to be basically a dead website with extraordinarily little traffic. How and why would Assange want to be involved with it?

Assange is a very difficult figure in a lot of ways, and I'm not fond of the naked attempt at helping a monstrously bad candidate become President of the United States with fairly clear assistance from Russia, but right now I think that website's claims are false until some actual substantiation comes around.

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27 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Yeah, I agree with this.

The problem with Wikileaks is not that they aren't handling Trump leaks. They aren't hackers, they aren't reporters, and they aren't informants. It's fairly silly to blame them for that.

I think releasing the Podesta emails is totally fair, though it's also clear that they're being used for geopolitical warfare, it's important to release. If HRC and the rest were smart they'd simply beat them to the punch. The Podesta emails are incredibly boring anyway, and once you learn that the cat's out of the bag the most valuable thing you could probably do is actually show openness and transparency.

However, blaming  them for attacking Clinton directly with respect to her health? Yeah, that's legitimately lame. Blaming them for doxxing Turkish and Afghan people? That's legitimately dangerous. When Snowden comes out against Wikileaks and says 'hey now, you've gone too far' you're probably on the wrong side of things. 

I think Wikileaks as a concept is incredibly valuable to a functioning democracy. I think Wikileaks as run by Assange is being used as a way to wage war against personal vendettas and shows incredibly poor judgment in punching down. 

Agree with this. Assange seems to use Wikileaks more as his personal tool than as an information gathering and distrubution platform. He really also seems to be kind of an ass himself to be honest.

As for the accusations, however, we do have to remember this is a man that has made many enemies. IMO it taints any accusation made against him until we can see some rather rock solid evidence. I'm not saying he's innocent by default because conspiracy, but there are interested parties who would very much profit from discrediting him.

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2 minutes ago, Jasta11 said:

Agree with this. Assange seems to use Wikileaks more as his personal tool than as an information gathering and distrubution platform. He really also seems to be kind of an ass himself to be honest.

I think this happens with almost all news organizations sooner or later. If not becoming someone's personal tool, a tool for a specific or small group of people.

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