NFL 2016 Week 7: Nobody's Burfict

[JonSnow4President]

3 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Hey look, it turns out that having an OLine not completely suck is worth something

Well, good O-line play has a couple sports writers saying a 4th round rookie draft prospect who everyone thought was raw being in the MVP race (I don't think so, but you know how sports writers can be).  Bad O-line play makes people think Luck or Wilson aren't great QBs. 

[Jace, Extat]

5 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

If you took some random 6'7" guy from the street and had him play QB, it would look like Brock Osweiler, right? 

I think it was a fair call. The ball was coming out of his hand before his arm came before. No defender required. 

Agreed on both counts. There was a heartbeat's pause between his arm going back and starting forward (which seemed really long), and in that moment the ball slides free.

ETA: I wanna see that sheet of Gruden's up close, I've always wanted a close look at one of those.

[JonSnow4President]

Which NFL starters would you put behind Brock?  I have maybe Fitzmagic and Caepernick.  

[Jace, Extat]

... Case Keenum? Although I think that guy's upper-echelon backup material. I'd even take Fitzy off your list, at least that dude has put together a couple of magic seasons before. I'd take him in a heartbeat over Brock. Yeah, that's pretty much all I've got. I was gonna say maybe Hoyer if he counted, but I'd take him over Osweiler. Good god, I'd even take any 18 of the QB's who've started for the Browns.

[JonSnow4President]

2 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

... Case Keenum? Although I think that guy's upper-echelon backup material. I'd even take Fitzy off your list, at least that dude has put together a couple of magic seasons before. I'd take him in a heartbeat over Brock. Yeah, that's pretty much all I've got. I was gonna say maybe Hoyer if he counted, but I'd take him over Osweiler. Good god, I'd even take any 18 of the QB's who've started for the Browns.

I like Keenum a little better (think he's done about the same with less to work with than Brock).  You're probably right on Fitz, although I forgot about the Browns.  Just from the box score, Hogan didn't seem that bad for a late round rookie pressed into action despite not spending his offseason with the Browns. 

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, JonSnow4President said:

I like Keenum a little better (think he's done about the same with less to work with than Brock).  You're probably right on Fitz, although I forgot about the Browns.  Just from the box score, Hogan didn't seem that bad for a late round rookie pressed into action despite not spending his offseason with the Browns. 

I've been thinking that Kessler could develop nicely into something between Colt McCoy (who I'm very fond of) and Chadrick Pennington if they could keep him alive.

Meanwhile, can we call these Texans the Cardiac Cows?

[JonSnow4President]

2 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I've been thinking that Kessler could develop nicely into something between Colt McCoy (who I'm very fond of) and Chadrick Pennington if they could keep him alive.

Meanwhile, can we call these Texans the Cardiac Cows?

I like the bullshits.  Just need an emoji sticker to pair with the bull on the helmet. 

[Jaime L]

21 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

Which NFL starters would you put behind Brock?  I have maybe Fitzmagic and Caepernick.  

10 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

... Case Keenum? Although I think that guy's upper-echelon backup material. I'd even take Fitzy off your list, at least that dude has put together a couple of magic seasons before. I'd take him in a heartbeat over Brock. Yeah, that's pretty much all I've got. I was gonna say maybe Hoyer if he counted, but I'd take him over Osweiler. Good god, I'd even take any 18 of the QB's who've started for the Browns.

Yeah, I was more impressed with what I saw of Cody Kessler than him. I'd have Gabbert below him if he was still playing. Kaepernick maybe a half step above. Same with Tannehill. What makes Brock stand out over the other bad QBs is, unlike them he has two very good receiving options.  

And only Brock could end with 131 passing yards on 41 attempts. That's pretty amazing. 

ETA: Lowest passing yards on 40+ attempts by any QB except for Jesse Palmer in 2002 apparently. Guess there's always the Bachelor for Brock to fall back on.

[Jace, Extat]

Just now, Jaime L said:

Yeah, I was more impressed with what I saw of Cody Kessler than him. I'd have Gabbert below him if he was still playing. Kaepernick maybe a half step above. Same with Tannehill. What makes Brock stand out over the other bad QBs is, unlike them he has two very good receiving options.  

And only Brock could end with 131 passing yards on 41 attempts. That's pretty amazing. 

Let me do some really quick math here...

41x3 is 123

which leaves 8

41/8 is 5.08

That means Brock averaged 3.19 YARDS PER ATTEMPT!!! That's below the GABBERT ZONE by a huge margin.

[JonSnow4President]

2 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Yeah, I was more impressed with what I saw of Cody Kessler than him. I'd have Gabbert below him if he was still playing. Kaepernick maybe a half step above. Same with Tannehill. What makes Brock stand out over the other bad QBs is, unlike them he has two very good receiving options.  

And only Brock could end with 131 passing yards on 41 attempts. That's pretty amazing. 

Not true.  One other person has been that putrid before (post merger). 

Sadly, the stat finder I use doesn't like copy and paste to this forum.  

Jesse Palmer, 12/28/2003, was 18/43 for 110 yards, 2 TD, and 4 INT. 

That's literally the only one with less than 131 yards on 41 or more pass attempts. 

[JonSnow4President]

Now, there have been 63 players to throw below 3YPA on 20 or more pass attempts, including last year's super bowl champion QB (Peyton went 5/20 for 35, 0/4 against KC last year). Dalton, Fitzpatrick, and Eli Manning (twice) are other current notable QBs on the list. Eli actually won one of those games. 

[Week]

Tommmmm Savvvvvvage!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

$72,000,000.00 well spent!

[JonSnow4President]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

$72,000,000.00 well spent!

Now now.  It's only $37M guaranteed IIRC.  As opposed to less than $5M for Dak or Siemian...

[Bronn Stone]

Gotta disagree with the Osweiler fumble call.  No way that is called anything but a completed pass if a receiver catches it.  The rule does not require that the passer maintain complete control during the process.   The ball just has to be moving forward when it leaves his hand.  Even the most generous interpretation of when it leaves his hand, the ball is going both up AND forward.

Rule 8
Forward Pass, Backward Pass, Fumble
Section 1
Forward Pass
DEFINITION
Article 1  Definition

It is a forward pass if:
(a)   the  ball  initially  moves  forward  (to  a  point  nearer  the  opponent’s  goal  line)  after  leaving  the  passer’s
hand(s);

[JonSnow4President]

3 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Gotta disagree with the Osweiler fumble call.  No way that is called anything but a completed pass if a receiver catches it.  The rule does not require that the passer maintain complete control during the process.   The ball just has to be moving forward when it leaves his hand.  Even the most generous interpretation of when it leaves his hand, the ball is going both up AND forward.

He loses control before it's moving forward.  After that point, he's simply pushing a fumbled ball forward.  

[Bronn Stone]

Control is not mentioned in the rule.  Leaving the hand is.  It hasn't left if it is touching the hand.

[dbunting]

Wow, not shocking if you have read much about him but Arian Foster just retired according to reports.

[JonSnow4President]

15 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Control is not mentioned in the rule.  Leaving the hand is.  It hasn't left if it is touching the hand.

From the NFL rulebook, it sure as hell is. 

Quote

When a player is in control of the ball and attempting to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his hand starts a forward pass. (a) If the passer is attempting to throw a forward pass, but contact by an opponent materially affects him, causing the ball to go backward, it is a forward pass, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground, a player, an official, or anything else. (b) If, after an intentional forward movement of his hand, the passer loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body, it is a forward pass. If the player loses possession after he has tucked the ball into his body, it is a fumble. (c) If the passer loses possession of the ball while attempting to recock his arm, it is a fumble.

He loses control of the ball, therefore he never makes an intentional forward movement while in control of the ball.  Therefore by definition it cannot be a forward pass. 

[Bronn Stone]

You are wrong.  

Intent means he wants it to go forward, and it is clear then there is intent. And it DOES go forward.  It doesn't go straight up.  It doesn't go down.  It doesn't go sideways.  It doesn't go backwards.  He has enough control over the ball to propel it forward. 

 

This is not like one of those double hits where he's lost it and the hand bats it forward.  The ball never leaves contact with his hand until it is being propelled forward.  The refs blew it.