Some thoughts and a question on Wylla, and a specific choice of wording by Edric.

[Chris Mormont]

Edric is not lying to Arya.  Why would anyone tell him about a big conspiracy before he leaves to squire for Bedric.  No one could have foreseen that war would break out and that the little lord would need vital information. 

My guess is that he was told the same story as everyone else, Jon Snow is Ned and Wylla's son.  And regardless if you believe the R+L=J theory or if you believe Jon is Ashara and Ned's son.  This is Ned's story and he has stuck to it for 14 years.  Obviously in either case, there has been some complicity by some of the Dayne family, but would there be any reason to pass down a story to a 12 year old boy, regardless if he was technically the Lord of his house?

My theory is that Ned did father a child with Ashara, and that bastard gave Ned the idea of switching boys.  Perhaps, the theory of Ashara being Septa Lemore is true and then Fake Aegon could be her son, which was reported stillborn and thus Ed's real bastard. 

[Macgregor of the North]

@The Weirwoods Eyes

Nobody made a full on assumption that Wylla was actually at the Tower of Joy, so fear no danger!. The avenues of possibility were being explored is all, and it is entirely possible and there is hints in the text that she may have been. In fact the textual evidence connecting Wylla to the whole situation is quite strong so therefore it's not a huge stretch to think she might have been there.

As @Jenny of Dorne pointed out you seem have to been edging toward an assumption yourself. Are you perhaps so set against Wylla being at the Tower of Joy because it perhaps conflicts with your own assumptions?

Honest question.

[Eden-Mackenzie]

8 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

This is the conversation between Edric and Arya where I want to question a remark by Edric which I'll bold.

Does Edric hesitate to swear he knew Jon's mother?. Does he swerve Aryas question. Is there a chance Edric knows who Jon's real mother was and is part of the ruse that House Dayne has going which places their longtime servant Wylla as Jon's mother.

(Snip)

"Milk brothers. Not blood. My lady mother had no milk when I was little, so Wylla had to nurse me."
Arya was lost. "Who's Wylla?"
"Jon Snow's mother. He never told you? She's served us for years and years. Since before I was born."
"Jon never knew his mother. Not even her name." Arya gave Ned a wary look. "You know her? Truly?" Is he making mock of me? "If you lie I'll punch your face."
"Wylla was my wetnurse," he repeated solemnly. "I swear it on the honor of my House."
 

I actually find the underlined/italicized portion to be a far more telling remark - Wylla is still alive. Even though she has dawdled long enough, perhaps Arya will swing by Starfall on her way to rejoin Nymeria in the Riverlands? 

As far as the bolded section, I am not convinced it is anything more than a twelve year old boy answering a very feisty question from a very feisty girl and wanting to make it absolutely clear he is telling the truth. Ned swears he knows Wylla because thatis the   question Arya asked: You know her? Truly? This is the first Arya has ever heard of Jon Snow's mother, let alone spoken to someone claiming to know her, so to Arya, Wylla's existence is wonder enough. Ned identifies Wylla as Jon's mother, not Jon's milk mother, and does so without hesitation, so (to me) as far as Ned knows, Jon is Wylla's son. Ned may be Lord of Starfall, but he is still a twelve year old boy. Tommen is King of (some of) the Seven Kingdoms, but they don't tell him anything, let alone earth-shattering secrets. 

[Macgregor of the North]

4 hours ago, Eden-Mackenzie said:

I actually find the underlined/italicized portion to be a far more telling remark - Wylla is still alive. Even though she has dawdled long enough, perhaps Arya will swing by Starfall on her way to rejoin Nymeria in the Riverlands? 

As far as the bolded section, I am not convinced it is anything more than a twelve year old boy answering a very feisty question from a very feisty girl and wanting to make it absolutely clear he is telling the truth. Ned swears he knows Wylla because thatis the   question Arya asked: You know her? Truly? This is the first Arya has ever heard of Jon Snow's mother, let alone spoken to someone claiming to know her, so to Arya, Wylla's existence is wonder enough. Ned identifies Wylla as Jon's mother, not Jon's milk mother, and does so without hesitation, so (to me) as far as Ned knows, Jon is Wylla's son. Ned may be Lord of Starfall, but he is still a twelve year old boy. Tommen is King of (some of) the Seven Kingdoms, but they don't tell him anything, let alone earth-shattering secrets. 

I have mentioned the significance of the underlined part in the OP. Wylla still lives and resides in Starfall, at time of Edric making the comment. (299AC).

As to the bolded part.

Arya doesn't ask straight out if Ned knew Wylla though does she. Check. I have a sneaky feeling GRRM wanted us to pick something up here.

"Arya was lost. "Who's Wylla?"
"Jon Snow's mother. He never told you? She's served us for years and years. Since before I was born."
"Jon never knew his mother. Not even her name." Arya gave Ned a wary look. "You know her? Truly?" Is he making mock of me? "If you lie I'll punch your face."
"Wylla was my wetnurse," he repeated solemnly. "I swear it on the honor of my House."

It's after Arya confirms that Jon never knew his mother that Edric gets a little spooked it seems, I'm wondering if he stops to think something's amiss with the plan to name Wylla as the mother of Jon and then wonders if he's said too much and backs off from the topic completely with his meek "Wylla was my Wet Nurse". 

It seems to me like a straight up sense of, "shit, I'm done with this topic, what has my mouth done". 

Or, I'm over analysing, I do it with these books. Of course I'm not trying to twist people's arms but I sense something amiss. Or possibly its foreshadowing that the Lord of House Dayne will play a part with Jon and his reveal?. There's something going on though I believe. 

As to Tommen and Edric, the two boys couldn't be more different. One is the future of one of the oldest houses in the world through true blood, groomed properly to rule and subjected to war campaigns with grown men etc etc, the other is a silly little baby who was ignored by his 'father/s' and smothered by his mother to a negative degree, and who was placed on the iron throne with no good reason to be used as a puppet. 

There is a vast difference between the two lads, just saying.

[Notlad]

I've always wondered why it came to swords between Ned Stark and Arthur Dayne. If the theories are correct about Lyanna going willingly with Rhaegar it would make sense for Rhaegar to want to keep Lyanna and the baby safe, so he has three of the Kingsguard there to protect them. However, when it's Ned that shows up at the ToJ wouldn't that change the circumstances? If house Dayne willingly helped Lyanna and then Ned after the baby is born and Lyanna dies, it seems odd to me that Arthur and Ned would grab for their swords first, especially since  Ned held Arthur in high esteem. Also, wouldn't Lyanna have mentioned Ned to Rhaegar at some point. It doesn't seem like Rhaegar would order the Kingsguard to kill Eddard if he happened to show up, and I'm sure Lyanna wouldn't want her brother killed. Anyone have any insight on this?

[Macgregor of the North]

42 minutes ago, Notlad said:

I've always wondered why it came to swords between Ned Stark and Arthur Dayne. If the theories are correct about Lyanna going willingly with Rhaegar it would make sense for Rhaegar to want to keep Lyanna and the baby safe, so he has three of the Kingsguard there to protect them. However, when it's Ned that shows up at the ToJ wouldn't that change the circumstances? If house Dayne willingly helped Lyanna and then Ned after the baby is born and Lyanna dies, it seems odd to me that Arthur and Ned would grab for their swords first, especially since  Ned held Arthur in high esteem. Also, wouldn't Lyanna have mentioned Ned to Rhaegar at some point. It doesn't seem like Rhaegar would order the Kingsguard to kill Eddard if he happened to show up, and I'm sure Lyanna wouldn't want her brother killed. Anyone have any insight on this?

The way its laid out for us, which is a fever dream that we have been warned by GRRM as to be not taken too literally, is that Ned appears with the sole intention of getting his sister back, "now it ends". And the 3 KG were not giving up anything for anybody, "we swore a vow". And they rush at each other all swords and madness. Im not sure if GRRM will show that there was much more to it than that but the way it stands we are probably supposed to assume that a battle happened very quickly before any peace talks could be achieved and the KG likely thought they couldnt trust Ned because he was so close to Robert, and obviously the child falling into Roberts hands is something the KG would never let happen while they live.

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

11 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

@The Weirwoods Eyes

Nobody made a full on assumption that Wylla was actually at the Tower of Joy, so fear no danger!. The avenues of possibility were being explored is all, and it is entirely possible and there is hints in the text that she may have been. In fact the textual evidence connecting Wylla to the whole situation is quite strong so therefore it's not a huge stretch to think she might have been there.

As @Jenny of Dorne pointed out you seem have to been edging toward an assumption yourself. Are you perhaps so set against Wylla being at the Tower of Joy because it perhaps conflicts with your own assumptions?

Honest question.

I do indeed have my own theories, but whether Wylla was there or not has no impact upon it what so ever. Her presence/or not at the ToJ doesn't impact my own theory. 

I'm genuinely just trying to point out that we should not assume she was. A wet nurse is not a midwife, and it is ignorant to assume she is a midwife just because she is a wet nurse. Wet nurses tended to be uneducated common women with no other means of earning a living. A midwife or in this world a woods witch was a highly experienced older woman who has gained experience knowledge and understanding through often decades of dedication to assisting women. The woman Cersei used to purge her, would be this worlds midwife. In real world these cunning women held a specific place in their communities, and people feared and respected them for their knowledge and ability. Wylla isn't that, she is a lowborn woman, who had a baby once and decided to earn her living by nursing other peoples children. The example of Old Nan is a good one. She ended up a wet nurse most likely because she had an illegitimate child, and no husband to support her. As such she used what ability she did have to find a place and earn a living. 

I absolutely agree that there would be servants there, and in fact have long argued that point. 

 

My opinion on Allyria is and was presented as just opinion. It gives a plausible reason for there to be a Wetnurse at Starfall at all. And fits with her (Allyria) not being wed to Beric yet. She's clearly a child still at the time he and Edric set out to KL. Or else she'd be his wife already. Instead her younger nephew is sent to squire for Beric, and no date is yet set for their marriage. This heavily implies she is still too young. If she is Ashara's daughter that puts her at roughly a year older than Jon and Robb. so 14/15 in 298. Seems the wedding would have been taking place in a couple of years time. but of course Beric never returned. 

 

Allyria being Ned's niece doesn't really effect my theory either tbh. But i admit it would help a bit in terms of explaining why House Dayne are so forgiving of Ned. If he is Allyria's only blood on her paternal side, they feel more favourable towards him. But my theory involves a different Dayne. 

 

But over all I have come to think that more people know about Jon than the book implies. It has long been said that if R+L=J is revealed no one would believe Howland anyway. And that led me to consider who else might know, and could back him, the "accepted" idea is that Bran will see it through the weirwood network. But again who would believe him. There has to be other people with knowledge, "They" found him, there had to be servants there, as I pointed out in the previous thread, there is simply no reason at all for Rhaegar to keep her a secret on his return to KL. Everyone knows he was with her, he is about to depose his father anyway, and he knows full well he may not return from the Trident. It doesn't make sense for him to keep secrets at this stage. And there has to be others who can back up Howland when he finally comes forwards. 

As I keep saying I doubt any of these people has the entire picture, But a bit of knowledge here and there can be added up and add what say Jaime knows to what Barristan knows, to what Danaerys knows to what Howland knows, to what Bran discovers to what "they" reveal...well then we have proof. I think Wylla is a part of that picture, I think she has part of the puzzle. But I don't think we can assume she was at the ToJ. There is simply no reason for her to have been. 

 

[Macgregor of the North]

14 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

You have to ask yourself, why are these assumptions being made? We have nothing at all to imply Ashara was in KL during the sack in order to inform Ned where to find his sister. We have nothing to imply she had any idea where Lyanna and Rhaegar had been at all in fact. 

It is being speculated on, no one is straight up assuming anything. You seem offended at the speculations it seems, like they go against something you believe in, or whatever.

Nobody said Ashara was or even had to be at Kings landing to tell Ned. Infact, i thought it was glaringly obvious she was NOT at KL for the sack. I believe when Elia was transported to KL from Dragonstone Ashara may have fled then. And another thing, this is not an assumption but i believe strongly that Ned never found out at KL, but later on. 

And when you say we have nothing to imply Ashara knew where Lyanna and Rhaegar were i think that points to you actually not liking the sound of her being the source, rather than you thinking that theres nothing to back it up.

There is a few things that can implicate her. She is Arthurs sister. She is a Lady of House Dayne. Wylla, a wet nurse/servant of her house is 100% involved somewhere. She was around Elia ALOT, and may have picked up a stray piece of info sometime. She was NOT in KL at the sack. All these small things add up and solidify the idea that if it does turn out to be Ashara who told Ned in some shape or form, i for one, will NOT be surprised.

[Macgregor of the North]

5 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

A wet nurse is not a midwife, and it is ignorant to assume she is a midwife just because she is a wet nurse.

Dont presume to use the word ignorant while adressing others on this thread because you class yourself an "expert"(your own words) on the topic. Wylla was/is a loyal trusted servant and wet nurse for House Dayne for years and years. To think she was possibly employed by Arthur to help at the Tower is by no means a stretch of the imagination.

Keep your real world analysis on midwives and wet nurses out of here if it clouds your logic on the matter.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

31 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

It is being speculated on, no one is straight up assuming anything. You seem offended at the speculations it seems, like they go against something you believe in, or whatever.

Nobody said Ashara was or even had to be at Kings landing to tell Ned. Infact, i thought it was glaringly obvious she was NOT at KL for the sack. I believe when Elia was transported to KL from Dragonstone Ashara may have fled then. And another thing, this is not an assumption but i believe strongly that Ned never found out at KL, but later on. 

And when you say we have nothing to imply Ashara knew where Lyanna and Rhaegar were i think that points to you actually not liking the sound of her being the source, rather than you thinking that theres nothing to back it up.

There is a few things that can implicate her. She is Arthurs sister. She is a Lady of House Dayne. Wylla, a wet nurse/servant of her house is 100% involved somewhere. She was around Elia ALOT, and may have picked up a stray piece of info sometime. She was NOT in KL at the sack. All these small things add up and solidify the idea that if it does turn out to be Ashara who told Ned in some shape or form, i for one, will NOT be surprised.

I assure you I am not offended. They do not go against anything I believe. In regards to ASOIAf there is very little I solidly believe. Most everything is theory and possibilities. 

Some things have more weight to imply they are really the case, some have strong support that they will occur. But I don't think Wylla being at the TOJ is one of them, and it is as simple as that. 

Most assume Ashara told Ned, despite the fact she has no reason to, was not known to be anywhere Ned was prior to him arriving at the ToJ and I think this is a mistake. IF we had evidence Ned went to Starfall first then I'd countenance it. But we don't. And he would have no reason to go there prior to the TOJ either. 

I couldn't care less if she is the source or not in terms of character, I just think assuming she is with zero evidence or plausible reason is ill advised. 

The few things you list are not things to imply she'd tell Ned where Lyanna is at all. Her being Arthur's sister if anything gives her reason to not tell. Her being a Lady of a Famous House is not a reason to tell, Wylla is a servant of her house and is 100% involved somewhere YES, but we don't know when she came into the picture. And all we do know is that Ned went to Starfall AFTER the TOJ. Ashara being Elia's Handmaid over a year before doesn't mean anything. Ashara was dismissed upon her pregnancy being outed. She may not have been nailed down at Starfall during the rebellion, but we've never been told she was given her position at court back. In fact from Barristan's recollections it seems likely she never returned to court again after her disgrace. Of course she was not at KL, she wouldn't be able to show her face there. So when did she supposedly tell Ned where Lyanna was? We have nothing at all to indicate he saw her prior to returning Dawn. 

27 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Dont presume to use the word ignorant while adressing others on this thread because you class yourself an "expert"(your own words) on the topic. Wylla was/is a loyal trusted servant and wet nurse for House Dayne for years and years. To think she was possibly employed by Arthur to help at the Tower is by no means a stretch of the imagination.

Keep your real world analysis on midwives and wet nurses out of here if it clouds your logic on the matter.

Erm... you do know what the word Ignorant means I assume? it isn't an automatic insult. It is simply lacking in knowledge about something. I for example am completely ignorant when it comes to understanding how an engine works. Or how to do the wiring in my house. Assuming a wet nurse is qualified to deliver a baby is ignorant, it demonstrates a lack of understanding about the two jobs. It isn't an insult it is an observation. 

And  I don't class myself as an expert, three years of study under a recognised body and 7 years of working supporting mothers to breastfeed class me as an expert. 

My real world analysis of Wetnurses and Midwifes absolutely keeps clarity in the matter. Or do you think GRRM just ignorantly made some assumptions and failed to do any research on the matter at all? The fact he demonstrates that he does have knowledge of real world medievil midwifery by telling us Jaime found a "woodswitch" to purge Cersei's womb of Robert's child doesn't give you a hint that he understands the role of cunning woman was a very real one and only specific women knew the secrets of the birthing bed.. Oh look he did it again with Mirri Maz he introduced a woman who specifically had learnt about labour and delivery, and with that demonstrated that it wasn't a job that any old wet nurse can do.

[Macgregor of the North]

@The Weirwoods Eyes

Can you clarify what you mean here?

Quote

I pointed out in the previous thread, there is simply no reason at all for Rhaegar to keep her a secret on his return to KL. Everyone knows he was with her, he is about to depose his father anyway, and he knows full well he may not return from the Trident. It doesn't make sense for him to keep secrets at this stage. And there has to be others who can back up Howland when he finally comes forwards. 

Are you implying that Rhaegar was quite open in Kings Landing about his situation with Lyanna. Including her location. As in he never kept any of it a secret and declared exactly what he was up to and exactly where she was?.

This can be debunked I believe. If this is the case a lot more people would know and it would become common knowledge quite quickly I believe, which would have led to Robert, Ned, and Tywin etc all knowing. 

Therefore the outcome would have been totally different. Others would have travelled to the Tower, not just Neds very low key secretive mission with six trusted northerners later on, after the siege lifting.

[Macgregor of the North]

@The Weirwoods Eyes

I am well aware of the words meaning but I actually strongly believe that you think you are some kind of authority on this thread and above others in some way by the way you are coming across and the context with which you insert certain words such as "assume", which I seriously think is a word that grinds on you, for whatever reason, and "ignorant" which I believe you inserted with a grain of smugness.

Yes, GRRM would have consulted some real world people for lots pointers but his whole book is not built on real world fact. You should put your midwife textbooks to one side and just focus on the story. There is the real world, and there is the asoiaf world, don't compare the two in every aspect, it doesn't always work.

A servant and Wet Nurse could easily be employed to help at the Tower, especially if there was possibly the hint that Lyannas health was fading or she became poorly in the latter stages perhaps. There a few factors that could have Wylla placed there so don't be so quick to "assume" you know everything on an asoiaf situation because you are an "expert" in the real world.

[Greywater-Watch]

1 hour ago, Notlad said:

I've always wondered why it came to swords between Ned Stark and Arthur Dayne.

 

52 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

The way its laid out for us, which is a fever dream that we have been warned by GRRM as to be not taken too literally, is that Ned appears with the sole intention of getting his sister back, "now it ends". And the 3 KG were not giving up anything for anybody, "we swore a vow". And they rush at each other all swords and madness.

It is not really a contribution to answering the main question of this post (about Wylla). I quoted the two remarks above to underline my personal doubts about our good knowledge of the true happenings at the Tower of Joy. I too have wondered about the direct sword fight between Ned's Party and the three KGs. And I still wonder about these two sentences:

Arthur: And now it begins.

Eddard: No. Now it ends.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

2 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

@The Weirwoods Eyes

Can you clarify what you mean here?

Are you implying that Rhaegar was quite open in Kings Landing about his situation with Lyanna. Including her location. As in he never kept any of it a secret and declared exactly what he was up to and exactly where she was?.

This can be debunked I believe. If this is the case a lot more people would know and it would become common knowledge quite quickly I believe, which would have led to Robert, Ned, and Tywin etc all knowing. 

Therefore the outcome would have been totally different. Others would have travelled to the Tower, not just Neds very low key secretive mission with six trusted northerners later on, after the siege lifting.

I'm implying he will have shared it with some people. I think it likely he told at least part of what he had done, and why with Barristan and Jaime. And I think it very likely he shared with his mother also. 

Barristan knows for a fact that Rhaegar loved HIS lady Lyanna. This is a very solid assertion on Barristans part, and he has no reason at all to exaggerate. Barristan has to have been told directly by Rhaegar that he loved her for him to be this certain. And we know the two of them will have travelled to the Trident together. Giving opportunity for discussion. And Rhaegar has no reason not to be honest. Both Barristan and Jaime are KG and as such he might reasonably be expected to confide in them the where abouts of Lyanna and their sworn brothers. If anything happens to him, someone needs to go to them. Who else would he trust? Now it has been pointed out that Barristan was also not in KL at the sack, and so it wasn't likely him who told. But Jaime was, howether we have nothing to indicate he told Ned. Meaning someone else knew too. My guess is quite a few knew. Again what reason has he to keep it a secret? Ned only needs to make enquiries and some servant will come forward and tell him they overheard Prince Rhaegar telling of the Tower where Lyanna is. 

Danaerys knows information which can only have been told to her by a person who was either with Rhaegar at the time he and Lyanna eloped or by Rhaegar himself. She describes during her journey to wed Hizdhar how if Daario truly loved her he would come and carry her off at sword point, as Rhaegar did his northern girl. 

She left KL in her mothers womb, so who told her the story? Viserys or Darry. One of them. My guess is Rhaegar told his mother and she told the story to her other son. And that was conveyed to Dany by Viserys or that she told Darry who later told the children the story. 

Everyone in the realm knows Rhaegar took Lyanna. It isn't a huge secret. the only secret is that she gave him a son. The idea that no one knew anything at all is ludicrous. Of course some people knew things, a snippet here a gossip there, a confidence told a favour asked. 

[Macgregor of the North]

6 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

I'm implying he will have shared it with some people. I think it likely he told at least part of what he had done, and why with Barristan and Jaime. And I think it very likely he shared with his mother also. 

Barristan knows for a fact that Rhaegar loved HIS lady Lyanna. This is a very solid assertion on Barristans part, and he has no reason at all to exaggerate. Barristan has to have been told directly by Rhaegar that he loved her for him to be this certain. And we know the two of them will have travelled to the Trident together. Giving opportunity for discussion. And Rhaegar has no reason not to be honest. Both Barristan and Jaime are KG and as such he might reasonably be expected to confide in them the where abouts of Lyanna and their sworn brothers. If anything happens to him, someone needs to go to them. Who else would he trust? Now it has been pointed out that Barristan was also not in KL at the sack, and so it wasn't likely him who told. But Jaime was, howether we have nothing to indicate he told Ned. Meaning someone else knew too. My guess is quite a few knew. Again what reason has he to keep it a secret? Ned only needs to make enquiries and some servant will come forward and tell him they overheard Prince Rhaegar telling of the Tower where Lyanna is. 

Danaerys knows information which can only have been told to her by a person who was either with Rhaegar at the time he and Lyanna eloped or by Rhaegar himself. She describes during her journey to wed Hizdhar how if Daario truly loved her he would come and carry her off at sword point, as Rhaegar did his northern girl. 

She left KL in her mothers womb, so who told her the story? Viserys or Darry. One of them. My guess is Rhaegar told his mother and she told the story to her other son. And that was conveyed to Dany by Viserys or that she told Darry who later told the children the story. 

Everyone in the realm knows Rhaegar took Lyanna. It isn't a huge secret. the only secret is that she gave him a son. The idea that no one knew anything at all is ludicrous. Of course some people knew things, a snippet here a gossip there, a confidence told a favour asked. 

Your still not being clear, im asking if you are saying that Rhaegar openly let enough information be knownin KL in regards to her location.

Of course everybody knew he and Lyanna left the riverlands together, the war begun over this fact.

What i want you to clarify is that do you think Rhaegar openly stated her location in KL. 

[Macgregor of the North]

13 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said:

 

It is not really a contribution to answering the main question of this post (about Wylla). I quoted the two remarks above to underline my personal doubts about our good knowledge of the true happenings at the Tower of Joy. I too have wondered about the direct sword fight between Ned's Party and the three KGs. And I still wonder about these two sentences:

Arthur: And now it begins.

Eddard: No. Now it ends.

I think it is supposed to point to the KG knew why Ned was there, and Ned knew why they were there. No messing around between the two parties. They aint giving up a damn thing, and Ned is willing to take it by force. No nonsense.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

6 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

@The Weirwoods Eyes

I am well aware of the words meaning but I actually strongly believe that you think you are some kind of authority on this thread and above others in some way by the way you are coming across and the context with which you insert certain words such as "assume", which I seriously think is a word that grinds on you, for whatever reason, and "ignorant" which I believe you inserted with a grain of smugness.

Yes, GRRM would have consulted some real world people for lots pointers but his whole book is not built on real world fact. You should put your midwife textbooks to one side and just focus on the story. There is the real world, and there is the asoiaf world, don't compare the two in every aspect, it doesn't always work.

A servant and Wet Nurse could easily be employed to help at the Tower, especially if there was possibly the hint that Lyannas health was fading or she became poorly in the latter stages perhaps. There a few factors that could have Wylla placed there so don't be so quick to "assume" you know everything on an asoiaf situation because you are an "expert" in the real world.

Oh dear... 

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

5 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Your still not being clear, im asking if you are saying that Rhaegar openly let enough information be knownin KL in regards to her location.

Of course everybody knew he and Lyanna left the riverlands together, the war begun over this fact.

What i want you to clarify is that do you think Rhaegar openly stated her location in KL. 

Well in that case you are going to have to clarify what you mean by openly. 

[Macgregor of the North]

Just now, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Oh dear... 

 

You remind me a wee bit of a guy i spoke to on here at length once. Its funny, he was so dead set against Sam ever being able to shoot a bow in any shape or form competently. Ever.

His stance, he was a real world bow "expert".

He said no way, not gonna happen ever.

But lo and behold, Sam trains everyday, and actually hits the butts more than often and has even been involved in battle at sea and hit the other ship.

Point is, if GRRM wanted to write something into the story that real world experts like the guy and yourself disagreed with you guys would just have to grin and bear it.

Moral of the story, dont always apply your expert real world view to asoiaf, as it doesnt always work.

Take that on board, or not. But lets move on back to the debate at hand.

[Macgregor of the North]

5 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Well in that case you are going to have to clarify what you mean by openly. 

You mentioned that Rhaegar would not have kept things secret on his return to KL. Im quite sure its you that needs to clarify what you mean here.

Its simple, do you think he would have been telling people the location or not?