Brandon Stark / Lady Dustin

[YOVMO]

We know that Brandon Stark...erm....bloodied his sword on lady Dustin's maidenhead and we know that to the present day LD still cares about or even loves Brandon. I know there is an SSM that says that Brandon "had no sons" is it possible he had a daughter with LD? If so, are there any likely candidates? 

[Light a wight tonight]

I think we can rule out Old Nan. 

[Ashes Of Westeros]

I assume Ashra's child was from Brandon.

[YOVMO]

5 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

I assume Ashra's child was from Brandon.

Agreed. But I wonder if Lady Dustin who, st the time was a young Ryswell maid and who admits to theon that Brandon took her virginity, had a  child.

to me it is less about legitimacy or claims on witnerfell and the north and more about people running around with Stark blood and the odd powers that that seems to confer on people

[Ashes Of Westeros]

1 hour ago, YOVMO said:

Agreed. But I wonder if Lady Dustin who, st the time was a young Ryswell maid and who admits to theon that Brandon took her virginity, had a  child.

to me it is less about legitimacy or claims on witnerfell and the north and more about people running around with Stark blood and the odd powers that that seems to confer on people

I doubt it. Lady Dustin seems a bitter woman to me, who has no emotional attachement.  She hates Starks because they took everything from her. Brandon left her and her husband died fighting for Ned and Lyanna. I assume if Barbrey Dustin had a Stark child, she wouldn't hate them so much.

[devilish]

Lady Dustin shouldn't be bitter towards anybody. She had foolishly gave her maidenhood to somebody whom she hasn't married in the first place + her husband's perks (lands, castles etc) also came with responsibilities. Its as simple as that.

[YOVMO]

1 hour ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

I doubt it. Lady Dustin seems a bitter woman to me, who has no emotional attachement.  She hates Starks because they took everything from her. Brandon left her and her husband died fighting for Ned and Lyanna. I assume if Barbrey Dustin had a Stark child, she wouldn't hate them so much.

She is bitter now. But remember she goes down into the crypts and tells this story to theon and touches Brandon's statues face. I always assumed that she loved Brandon and hated the starks because Rickard': "southern ambitions" took him away from her and the Her husband died when Ned raised his banners for Robert

[Ashes Of Westeros]

17 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

She is bitter now. But remember she goes down into the crypts and tells this story to theon and touches Brandon's statues face. I always assumed that she loved Brandon and hated the starks because Rickard': "southern ambitions" took him away from her and the Her husband died when Ned raised his banners for Robert

I agree that she became like this. My point is that if Lady Dustin had a child, she wouldn't be so bitter, because she would have somebody to care about. I wonder why didn't she remarry.

I assume she could become pregnant from Brandon but the child has never been born (miscarriage, abortion). But there's zero text evidence about it.

[YOVMO]

5 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

I agree that she became like this. My point is that if Lady Dustin had a child, she wouldn't be so bitter, because she would have somebody to care about. I wonder why didn't she remarry.

I assume she could become pregnant from Brandon but the child has never been born (miscarriage, abortion). But there's zero text evidence about it.

Ok. I see your point about the child. Makes sense. Something just strikes me as very odd about her. She is seething with resentment towards Starks, yes. But she also dresses in mourning, that she hasn't remarried as you point out, and is incredibly cagey. I feel she is harboring some secret or some knowledge and I can't figure it out for the life of me. 

[Ashes Of Westeros]

18 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

Ok. I see your point about the child. Makes sense. Something just strikes me as very odd about her. She is seething with resentment towards Starks, yes. But she also dresses in mourning, that she hasn't remarried as you point out, and is incredibly cagey. I feel she is harboring some secret or some knowledge and I can't figure it out for the life of me. 

Apparently Barbrey loved Brandon and she was sure that Brandon loved her too and would marry her in the end (otherwise I don't think she would sleep with him, because it would decrease her chances to marry someone else). We don't know how Brandon felt about her, but it seems he had several affairs and Barbrey wasn't the only one for him. But for her it was Stark family and Rickard's ambitions (Tully alliance, taking part in southern gatherings like HH tournee etc) that separated them and lead to the events that killed her husband.

Quote

"The day I learned that Brandon was to marry Catelyn Tully, though … there was nothing sweet about that pain. He never wanted her, I promise you that. He told me so, on our last night together … but Rickard Stark had great ambitions too. Southron ambitions that would not be served by having his heir marry the daughter of one of his own vassals. Afterward my father nursed some hope of wedding me to Brandon's brother Eddard, but Catelyn Tully got that one as well. I was left with young Lord Dustin, until Ned Stark took him from me."

I think she developed a kind of fixation that her happiness with Brandon was destroyed by Stark family. Form one side she hates them, from other side they were sher beloved Brandon's family. Anyway, there are some things left unsaid about Lady Dustin and she would play some role but have to wait for the next book to find it out.

[Ser Scott Malkinson]

Wasn't there a SSM where he said Brandon has some bastards running around? Don't think a child with Lady Dustin is one of them, though.

[YOVMO]

22 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Apparently Barbrey loved Brandon and she was sure that Brandon loved her too and would marry her in the end (otherwise I don't think she would sleep with him, because it would decrease her chances to marry someone else). We don't know how Brandon felt about her, but it seems he had several affairs and Barbrey wasn't the only one for him. But for her it was Stark family and Rickard's ambitions (Tully alliance, taking part in southern gatherings like HH tournee etc) that separated them and lead to the events that killed her husband.

I think she developed a kind of fixation that her happiness with Brandon was destroyed by Stark family. Form one side she hates them, from other side they were sher beloved Brandon's family. Anyway, there are some things left unsaid about Lady Dustin and she would play some role but have to wait for the next book to find it out.

All this seems to be exactly correct. I feel that the Ryswell's still have a role to play especially with regard to the 79 sentinels. It could be nothing, just the ole spidey sense

[YOVMO]

19 minutes ago, Ser Scott Malkinson said:

bWasn't there a SSM where he said Brandon has some bastards running around? Don't think a child with Lady Dustin is one of them, though.

There isn't one that explicitly says he has bastards. There is one where he says Brandon certainly was no virgin (confirmed in the books of course) and another that says he left "no sons"

Because he said "no sons" and not "no children" I feel it is fair, at least to question and speculate whether or not their is a daughter of Brandon Stark out there somewhere

[Ser Scott Malkinson]

4 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

There isn't one that explicitly says he has bastards. There is one where he says Brandon certainly was no virgin (confirmed in the books of course) and another that says he left "no sons"

Because he said "no sons" and not "no children" I feel it is fair, at least to question and speculate whether or not their is a daughter of Brandon Stark out there somewhere

Found it:

Quote

In A Dance with Dragons, we learn more about Brandon Stark and his interest in women, similar to Robert's. Did Brandon have any bastards as well?

It'd be an exaggeration to say that Brandon died before he could have children. It's established in the books that he was no virgin. He could very well have left behind some little Snows in the various places he visited. But what's absolutely clear is that he had no legitimate children.

So you're right, he isn't that explicit about it, though he says it's possible. I think he hasn't really thought about it and it doesn't seem to be that important to the story.

I think the 'no sons' statement is meant to be taken as 'no legitimate sons', if you look at the context. He's speaking of the scarcity of Starks in the story, and that being due to Brandon dying without a son, among other things:

Quote

It's true that in recent times, the Starks have become quite scarce. There's not many of them in the present generatons. Some may say it's because Ned's siblings died. Brandon died before he had sons, and Lyanna is also dead, and Benjen joined the Night's Watch which means he doesn't have descendants either. 

These two quotes indicate, to me, that Brandon had no legitimate children, and that while he might have bastards (male or female) running around, these won't be important to the story.

[LynnS]

She does tell Theon that she always wanted to be a Stark and I've been wondering about her animosity towards Ned since it is Brandon who wronged her.  If she was pregnant and expected Ned to do the right thing by her or her child; then that might explain her animosity towards Ned if he refused.  Ramsey Snow comes to mind.  If she couldn't make a him a Stark; did she contrive some way to make him a Bolton pulling the wool over Roose's eyes?  Ramsey always kills his 'brothers'.  Now he's after Jon.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

If she was pregnant and expected Ned to do the right thing by her or her child; then that might explain her animosity towards Ned if he refused.

I don’t see it in keeping with Ned’s character to disown his brother’s son, considering he pretty much risks death and compromises his reputation in order to protect his sister’s son.

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

Ramsey Snow comes to mind.  If she couldn't make a him a Stark; did she contrive some way to make him a Bolton pulling the wool over Roose's eyes?  Ramsey always kills his 'brothers'.  Now he's after Jon.

That's an interesting idea, but she seems to despise Ramsay. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

7 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

I assume Ashra's child was from Brandon.

 I don't think so. IMNSHO Allyria is Ned's daughter.

[Ashes Of Westeros]

1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

 I don't think so. IMNSHO Allyria is Ned's daughter.

We have no evidence for or against it. But those who know Ned doubt  that he could father a bastard. It for me it seems really unlikely that shy Ned who was afraid to ask a lady for a dance suddenly became so bold and screwed her in the next couple of days. But it's just a common logic.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

5 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

We have no evidence for or against it. But those who know Ned doubt  that he could father a bastard. It for me it seems really unlikely that shy Ned who was afraid to ask a lady for a dance suddenly became so bold and screwed her in the next couple of days. But it's just a common logic.

It's also common logic that a brother wouldn't had sex with his brother's crush.

[Bironic]

50 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

It's also common logic that a brother wouldn't had sex with his brother's crush.

Shit happens.