Emie Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 After reading quite a bit about the history of the Targaryen lineages in The World of Ice and Fire book and the website attached to this being the wiki, it's clear that some of the members of the family have a status of being unknown later in life. Such as the twins Aerea and Rhalla, and with the children of Jaehaerys and Alysanne, Vaegon became a Maester, Maegelle became a Septa, Viserra died before having to get married, Saera became an owner of a brothel in Volantis. etc... And a few other princes and princesses had lives that we don't know what became of them. As far as we're concerned, either some of them or none of these people got married or had children. (Well the maester and septa obviously not) Any one of them could have stayed single for many reasons, either because they simply wanted to, or any of them could have been homosexual, or they wanted to remain independent or whatever. But I'm mostly curious about the fate of Daella and Rhae, because as of right now, they are the only two that I can think of that have been confirmed to have gotten married and had children, but Martin has yet to say which houses they married into. So I'm really curious, knowing what was going on with the politics of Westeros at the time of Maekar I reign, what does anyone think Maekar would have betrothed his only daughters too? This is kind of for fun, but also realistically, which house would they have married into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Lia Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 House Tarth is said to have recent marriage links to the Targaryens, so it's possible one of them married a Lord Tarth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Yozza Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Someone who had been loyal to the Targaryen's throughout all of the Blackfyre rebellions I'd presume. Maybe a Tarth as Lady Lia said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 One probably married some Lord Tarth, maybe Brienne's grandfather, as for the other, I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I read a theory somewhere that one of them married Dunk and it was their child that married into House Tarth, which would also explain the link to Brienne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 IIRC some have suggested that Dunk married one of Egg's sisters, and that a child of theirs married into House Tarth, to account for House Tarth's implied recent Dunk and Targaryen ancestries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes Of Westeros Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Bael's Bastard said: IIRC some have suggested that Dunk married one of Egg's sisters, and that a child of theirs married into House Tarth, to account for House Tarth's implied recent Dunk and Targaryen ancestries. It does make sense to me. Probably Dunk and Egg's sister only had one daughter, who married into House Tarth. Dunk"s wife died and he joined the KG. I wonder what role played Daella's and Rhae's descendants in RR? Apparently they could have a claim on IR as Targ relatives (just like Bobbie B did) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 9 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said: I wonder what role played Daella's and Rhae's descendants in RR? Apparently they had the same claim as Bobbie B Would be interesting to know who, if anyone, remained or remains of their descendants. But as descendants of siblings of Egg their claims should be more distant than the claim of descendants of a daughter of Egg. Though at this point legitimate descendants of Egg's daughter are dwindling pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Blackfyre IV Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Just now, Ashes Of Westeros said: It does make sense to me. Probably Dunk and Egg's sister only had one daughter, who married into House Tarth. Dunk"s wife died and he joined the KG. I wonder what role played Daella's and Rhae's descendants in RR? Apparently they had the same claim as Bobbie B Curious where you heard Egg's sisters had a claim put forth when Robert won or am i reading that wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 My idea is that Egg's older sister Daella ended up marrying Dunk. She was the sister Egg was betrothed to in TSS and TMK and it would be a great and funny irony if she ended up with Egg's best friend. The idea then is that they (most likely) only had one daughter who eventually married Lord Tarth, becoming the mother of Lord Selwyn Tarth. This would also explain how the hell the Tarths are related to Dunk and why Brienne saw Dunk's arms in her father's armory. Dunk would only have joined the KG after Daella had died - perhaps in childbirth? The girl could have been raised at court as Egg's ward. Thus we could assume that Dunk was already a KG during the reign of Maekar (and possibly even Aerys I) although he is first confirmed as a KG during the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion. But then, the idea that Dunk would like being a KG during the reign of Maekar while Daeron and Aerion were around isn't very likely, even less so during the time Aerion was Maekar's Heir Apparent. Thus it is not impossible that Dunk only joined the KG in 233 AC during/after the Great Council when Aegon V filled any vacancies in the Kingsguard caused by the Peake Uprising. I'd be surprised if no Kingsguard died at Maekar's side during the battle at Starpike. The marriage of the other sister (Rhae in my scenario) is completely unknown. She could have married anyone. But it is not very likely she married into a great house considering that none of the members of those houses boast that they are pretty close Targaryen cousins in the series. All we know is that Rhae definitely married and had children of her own. Aemon confirms this for both his sisters in AFfC. Another interesting question is whether Daeron's daughter, Princess Vaella, Aerion's son, Prince Maegor, and Maegor's mother, Princess Daenora did marry (a second time) and had (more) children of their own. Most interesting is the question whether Duncan and Jenny had any children - and whether any such children survived Summerhall. Such children could still be alive, after all, as could the children of Vaella, Daenora, and Maegor (who might have died at Summerhall, if they were still alive at that point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Yandel seems to say House Targaryen was reduced to two branches by the Summerhall tragedy. This seems hyperbole if it is referring to the lines of Jaehaerys/Shaera and Ormund/Rhaella, as there appears to be other female line descendants of Targaryens. It would make more sense if he was referring specifically to two male lines, such as Jaehaerys/Shaera and Aerion/Daenora. But I am not sure that is the intent, as it focuses on the lines which faced off in Robert's Rebellion. I take Aemon's memories of his sisters and their children to mean they already married and had children before Egg became king, and Aemon went to the Wall. I probably would have suggested they were married with children even before he became a maester, but the books seem to indicate that he served around family (including Summerhall?) until going to the Wall. Do you have any speculation about a possible house Egg's other sister might have married into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes Of Westeros Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 @Lord Varys , your little birds are doing a good job It is quite remarkable, that there were more Targs left after Maekar's death, but their fate is unknown, though it isn't such a distant past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes Of Westeros Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 53 minutes ago, Daemon Blackfyre IV said: Curious where you heard Egg's sisters had a claim put forth when Robert won or am i reading that wrong ? Sorry, I will re-write my post, it is confusing. I mean Egg's sisters descendeds if they existed could have put claim after RR, because they had Targ blood. Just like Bobbie B did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaedys Targaryen Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I find it rather hard to believe that Dunk and Daella married and had children. Dunk is a hedge knight and Daella a princess. The gap between their social ranks is too high for them to ever marry. And how would they have gotten permission to marry from Daella's father, Maekar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 35 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said: Yandel seems to say House Targaryen was reduced to two branches by the Summerhall tragedy. This seems hyperbole if it is referring to the lines of Jaehaerys/Shaera and Ormund/Rhaella, as there appears to be other female line descendants of Targaryens. It would make more sense if he was referring specifically to two male lines, such as Jaehaerys/Shaera and Aerion/Daenora. But I am not sure that is the intent, as it focuses on the lines which faced off in Robert's Rebellion. I think the branches were Jaehaerys-Aerys-Rhaegar and Steffon-Robert, the whole thing being part of Yandel's 'Robert Baratheon is the true heir of the Targaryen dynasty' propaganda. Duncan's sons are unlikely to be still considered part of the royal family at this point, thanks to abdication and morganatic marriage. And if Maegor's branch didn't completely die at Summerhall no male branches would have been cut at Summerhall. Vaella, Daenora, Rhae, Daella, etc. would all have founded female cadet branches. 35 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said: I take Aemon's memories of his sisters and their children to mean they already married and had children before Egg became king, and Aemon went to the Wall. I probably would have suggested they were married with children even before he became a maester, but the books seem to indicate that he served around family (including Summerhall?) until going to the Wall. Aemon was called to court by Maekar when he was already a maester (we don't know whether he was serving at a castle at this point or whether he was a maester at Oldtown, perhaps on the fast track to become archmaester) but since he refused to supplant the Grand Maester as Maekar's adviser he ended up serving Daeron on Dragonstone. I expect Egg's sisters to marry at some point in the 210s and Aemon finishing his chain in the same time period. 35 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said: Do you have any speculation about a possible house Egg's other sister might have married into? Not really. There are no hints I can think of right now. The Hightowers might have Targaryen blood but that (and the Targaryen blood of the Penroses, Plumms, Dondarrions (speculative)) can be explained via Elaena and the Targaryen-Hightower girls. But I think this thing might be addressed when Tommen/Myrcella's heir presumptive are discussed in TWoW. This is long overdue. Selwyn-Brienne won't be very popular with the Tyrells/Lannisters (not to mention that Selwyn and Tarth are in the hands of the Golden Company right now) so things could be interesting if Rhae married into a house from the Reach or the West. A Crownlands or Stormlands family could be interesting, too. Or, who knows, perhaps Teora Toland doesn't have her Targaryen blood from a Martell or Penrose match but from a daughter of Maekar's (although that's unlikely considering that no such match is mentioned when the dragons come up). 49 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said: @Lord Varys , your little birds are doing a good job It is quite remarkable, that there were more Targs left after Maekar's death, but their fate is unknown, though it isn't such a distant past. That's not so remarkable. There are theories about Duncan's children out there which would justify such secrecy if they were true (the idea is that the Reeds are descendants of Duncan and Jenny). I don't buy that but if George intended to reveal another secret Targaryen descendant in the books it makes sense for him to not spoil that via TWoIaF. 30 minutes ago, Vaedys Targaryen said: I find it rather hard to believe that Dunk and Daella married and had children. Dunk is a hedge knight and Daella a princess. The gap between their social ranks is too high for them to ever marry. And how would they have gotten permission to marry from Daella's father, Maekar? There are a lot of possibilities: 1. A love match involving them running away and marrying without permission with the royal family only accepting it years later. 2. An arranged match with Dunk marrying Daella mostly to save her from Aerion. With Egg breaking his betrothal Aerion would most likely have the right to claim Daella since Aemon was a maester and she Egg's older sister. It seems very likely that Daenora is Rhaegel's youngest child born only shortly before (or even after) his death in 215 AC, explaining why she only gives Aerion a son in 232 AC. Thus it is likely that Aerion only settled on marrying a cousin after he couldn't have a sister. 3. Dunk and Daella marrying with royal permission from Aerys I against Maekar's wishes. That could easily work if Dunk saves Aerys I's life from some Blackfyre assassin or is granted a reward for his role in the Third Blackfyre Rebellion (which most likely will be not insignificant). 4. Maekar himself granting them permission because Dunk saves his life (repeatedly) or because of other heroic deeds. Daella loving Dunk very much could also play a role. Not to mention the possibility that Bloodraven, Maekar, and Aerys I might actually have ennobled Dunk by then. The man could easily enough have been a pretty great lord when he finally joined the Kingsguard Granted, Daella is a royal princess but during the reign of Aerys I she would still be only an obscure niece of the king with Rhaegel's line coming before her father until both he and his son Aelor were dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emie Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Thanks guys! I'm really loving the answers. And yes, at first I thought it was odd that people would consider one of them marrying Duncan the Tall, since they are princesses of Westeros and Dunk is a hedge knight from Flea Bottom. But I like "Lord Vary's" theories on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000th Lord Commander Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I confess to being curious as well. Once the current House Baratheon dies out, which it seems well on the way to doing, the decendents of Egg's sisters would have a claim to the IT. Depending on how powerful they are as a house, they may even be able to press their claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emie Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 Oh "Lord Varys" I forgot to mention that that is another great question. About Duncan and Jenny. I too wonder if they had children. And if so, would they have titles? Where would they live. etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 5 hours ago, Emie said: Oh "Lord Varys" I forgot to mention that that is another great question. About Duncan and Jenny. I too wonder if they had children. And if so, would they have titles? Where would they live. etc... That's completely unclear as of yet. However, I'm inclined to believe that Duncan and Jenny must have had children because if Jenny had not been able to conceive this would most likely have put a strain on their relationship and the impression we get is that she, Duncan, and the entire royal family got along very well until the end. If that's the case then it seems reasonably likely that the had at least one child, possibly more. And if that's the case then we don't know about that because George deliberately omitted them from the family tree (as he did Rhae's and Daella's children). One assumes that Duncan and Jenny's children wouldn't have been princes or princesses but would still bear the Targaryen name (as those Gulltown Arryns we hear about are still Arryns). Whether those children yet lived or have descendants of their own which are still around in the series is completely unclear. Considering that Prince Duncan died at Summerhall (and Jenny, too, unless she did not just go mad) it is not unlikely that some or all of their children were there, too, and died alongside them. After all, we know that Aegon V called all those who were closest to him to Summerhall to celebrate the birth of his first great-grandchild. That should include all of his own children and grandchildren as well as other relatives of the royal family as well (the Targaryen-Baratheons, for instance, and Selwyn Tarth and his mother - who might have been Dunk's child). Even Princess Daenora, Prince Maegor, and Princess Vaella could have been there - assuming they got along with Aegon V reasonably well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 On 30/10/2016 at 11:55 PM, Bael's Bastard said: IIRC some have suggested that Dunk married one of Egg's sisters, and that a child of theirs married into House Tarth, to account for House Tarth's implied recent Dunk and Targaryen ancestries. This is what I have heard too however I don't understand how this make sense. A Targaryen princess married to a hedge knight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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