Do you think Daenerys and Jon Snow

[Commander Jon Snow]

6 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Since Nymeria was accepted there is no reason why Val shouldn't be accepted.

They really don't have foreshadowings. 

I don't agree.

QFT.

To quote myself; They really don't have foreshadowings. 

You would be correct if the show hadn't end up to be D&D's fanfiction.

1. They have more foreshadowing than any other character. The Bride of Fire is better foreshadowing than anything for any other character in the series.

2. Again, they straight up know the end of the series. They literally know the fate of each of the main characters of the story. The way they reach the end is fanfiction because even George hasn't figured out how to get to the end yet (if he had, we wouldn't be waiting so long ). But the actual ending is the same. They've been saying this since season 4 or so. 

Let's look at what George has said. He said that he doesn't know how he's getting to the end but there are things that he has known since the beginning. 

That includes:

- who sits the IT in the end

- the fates of each of the main characters (Tyrion, Jon, Arya, Dany, etc..)

- who marries who

This ain't theories anymore. This is the author of the series talking about his ending. And the showrunners have that information and are moving to that same ending. I think part of the reason people are upset is because with so much time since aDwD ending, they've made much of their own internal fanfiction about how the story will go and now that the story is moving in a different direction, they are mad.

 

tldr: If Dany and Jon hook up in the endgame in the show, they will in the books. D&D know the final fates of both main characters and who marries who from George. That isn't their theory. That is something they got from George themselves

[Dragon in the North]

38 minutes ago, farerb said:

So in the books, Did Sansa go to Winterfell to marry Ramsay and get raped? Did Jon got the pink letter before he was assassinated? Did Drogon come to save Daenerys in Daznak's pit? Was Margaery arrested because she lied about her brother? Did Kevan die in the sept because of Wildfire? Did Qyburn kill Pycelle? Did Tyrion kill his father because of Shae? Does Varys support Dany? Did Stannis take his daughter to battle? Did Davos become Jon's fanboy? Did Barristan die before Dany's disappearence? Did Brienne kill anyone who says hi to her and set throughout her arc waiting to storm a castle all by herself? was Ellaria mad who only cares about revenge™?

Sansa will go to Winterfell, Jon was assassinated, Drogon came to Daznak's pit, Margaery was arrested, Kevan died, Pycelle was killed, Tyrion killed his father, Varys supports a Targaryen, and Arianne Martell cares about revenge. This is exactly the point JonSnowed is trying to make. The outcome will be the same, but the details are different. It's wishful thinking to believe that the show will not spoil the books. It already has.

[Farerb]

1 minute ago, Dragon in the North said:

Sansa will go to Winterfell, Jon was assassinated, Drogon came to Daznak's pit, Margaery was arrested, Kevan died, Pycelle was killed, Tyrion killed his father, Varys supports a Targaryen, and Arianne Martell cares about revenge. This is exactly the point JonSnowed is trying to make. The outcome will be the same, but the details are different. It's wishful thinking to believe that the show will not spoil the books. It already has.

A story is not just a checklist of plot points. Context matters, characterization matters, themes matter.

So no, the story will not be the same, the story can't be the same when the only thing the characters from the show share with their book counterpart is the name.

And Arianne does not care about revenge ffs, and I don't believe Cersei will burn KL, especially not the sept that doesn't have any wildfire underneath.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

21 minutes ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

1. They have more foreshadowing than any other character. The Bride of Fire is better foreshadowing than anything for any other character in the series.

No they don't.

21 minutes ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

2. Again, they straight up know the end of the series. They literally know the fate of each of the main characters of the story. The way they reach the end is fanfiction because even George hasn't figured out how to get to the end yet (if he had, we wouldn't be waiting so long ). But the actual ending is the same. They've been saying this since season 4 or so.

Quote

So, you may see some extremely shocking things in the show that come up in the next season or two, but I'm not sure you could consider them spoilers,’ because they’re never gonna happen in the books. They can't happen in the books, because the show and the books have gone down different roads.~GRRM.

 

[Commander Jon Snow]

13 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

No they don't.

 

Yes... that's what I was saying. The road to the end is completely different. Ramsay shanking Bolton probably won't happen. The Battle of the Bastards won't happen. Barristan won't die fighting Harpies. Sansa isn't going to marry Ramsay 

but the end result...

“The lucky part is that George works with us and he’s a producer on the show,” Benioff says. “Last year we went out to Santa Fe for a week to sit down with him and just talk through where things are going, because we don’t know if we are going to catch up and where exactly that would be. If you know the ending, then you can lay the groundwork for it. And so we want to know how everything ends. We want to be able to set things up. So we just sat down with him and literally went through every character.”

“I can give them the broad strokes of what I intend to write, but the details aren’t there yet,” Martin says. “I’m hopeful that I can not let them catch up with me. And it’s my hope that long before they catch up with me I’ll have published The Winds of Winter, which’ll give me another couple years. It might be tight on the last book, A Dream of Spring, as they juggernaut forward.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2014/04/game-of-thrones-season-4#

They know the endgame of every main character and the broad strokes of the main story. They even say that they will converge at the same place. GRRM even says that he gave them the broad strokes of the story but the details aren't there. Meaning he doesn't know how to get there but they know where the story is going.

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 minute ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

Yes... that's what I was saying. The road to the end is completely different. Ramsay shanking Bolton probably won't happen. The Battle of the Bastards won't happen. Barristan won't die fighting Harpies. Sansa isn't going to marry Ramsay 

but the end result..

“The lucky part is that George works with us and he’s a producer on the show,” Benioff says. “Last year we went out to Santa Fe for a week to sit down with him and just talk through where things are going, because we don’t know if we are going to catch up and where exactly that would be. If you know the ending, then you can lay the groundwork for it. And so we want to know how everything ends. We want to be able to set things up. So we just sat down with him and literally went through every character.”

“I can give them the broad strokes of what I intend to write, but the details aren’t there yet,” Martin says. “I’m hopeful that I can not let them catch up with me. And it’s my hope that long before they catch up with me I’ll have published The Winds of Winter, which’ll give me another couple years. It might be tight on the last book, A Dream of Spring, as they juggernaut forward.”

They know the endgame of every main character and the broad strokes of the main story. They even say that they will converge at the same place. GRRM even says that he gave them the broad strokes of the story but the details aren't there. Meaning he doesn't know how to get there but they know where the story is going.

You would be right when Sansa will be married and raped by Ramsey, when Aegon disappear and no one would mention him, when Ellaria will kill Doran and Myrcella, when Ellaria give birth to Tyene and so on. To believe that a fan service ship is the most important part of the story it seems to me that you haven't paid attention to what the story is about.

[Commander Jon Snow]

Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said:

You would be right when Sansa will be married and raped by Ramsey, when Aegon disappear and no one would mention him, when Ellaria will kill Doran and Myrcella, when Ellaria give birth to Tyene and so on. To believe that a fan service ship is the most important part of the story it seems to me that you haven't paid attention to what the story is about.

I think you just ignored everything I wrote... Hell, I even addressed Sansa

I said that D&D know the ENDING of the story and the ENDGAME of all the main characters. What happens till then is completely FanFiction. The showrunners have already said the story will diverge and then ultimately converge to the book plot in the end. They know the broad outline of the story.

Of course, the story with Ellaria and Dorne is all FanFiction. They only know the endgame of the main characters (which I assume are Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Arya, Bran, Sansa, Jaime, Cersei). All other characters will completely diverge from their story in the book. As for Aegon, all his exclusion tells me is that he most likely will not sit the IT in the end lol. I think that of most characters that were straight up cut like Val, Lady Stoneheart, etc.. They clearly don't have a major role in the endgame 

Is it really fanservice if so many people hate it? Also, a lot of people have been predicting it since 1998 so it's not like its some couple that has no chance of happening. The HOTU Prophesy showed that Jon/Dany ALWAYS had a chance of happening. Especially considering that chapter is probably the most prophetic in the entire series. Foreshadowing in that scene probably trumps any other line because there are already things mentioned there that happened (Red Wedding, Aegon, etc..). 

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it won't happen

[Dragon in the North]

25 minutes ago, farerb said:

A story is not just a checklist of plot points. Context matters, characterization matters, themes matter.

So no, the story will not be the same, the story can't be the same when the only thing the characters from the show share with their book counterpart is the name.

And Arianne does not care about revenge ffs, and I don't believe Cersei will burn KL, especially not the sept that doesn't have any wildfire underneath.

You make some good points about it not being the same story, but that's not the argument here. It not being the same story doesn't change the fact that it's spoiling major plots from the books.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

2 minutes ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

Is it really fanservice if so many people hate it? 

So many people know about the books in here. People who only watch the series believe that those two will end up together.

3 minutes ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

The HOTU Prophesy showed that Jon/Dany ALWAYS had a chance of happening. Especially considering that chapter is probably the most prophetic in the entire series.

I am calling it bs. Especially after seeing how sweetness is a negative thinng in the books.

5 minutes ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it won't happen

That works both ways, because you like it doesn't mean that it will happen.

[Commander Jon Snow]

Not true at all. I remember Lyanna Stark was a strong proponent of it. Patrickstormborn as well. There were many others but I haven't posted in this forum in a while so I don't remember their names. Many book readers have been predicting it since A Clash of Kings... which came out in 1998. That's a solid 13 years before the TV show came out. Can't say they were biased by the show if they were predicting it so well in advance

 That's true but I actually consider that it might not happen. You have refused that it even has the possibility of happening. And sweetness being negative doesn't mean they won't get together. It could just as easily mean that it ends negatively with one or both dying

[Jon's Queen Consort]

15 minutes ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

 That's true but I actually consider that it might not happen. You have refused that it even has the possibility of happening.

Not true. I do believe that it could happen. 

15 minutes ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

And sweetness being negative doesn't mean they won't get together. It could just as easily mean that it ends negatively with one or both dying

Sure, the only time that Jon is mentioned in Dany's visions is associated with negativity and that proves how Dany and Jon will end up together. There are also other characters in her visions, why Jon would had been the unlucky one?

Of course Dany's fans are those who support this theory. That way Dany wouldn't end up as an usurper who steals her nephew's birthright  and usurps his Throne but her nephew's wife who shares his throne

[Commander Jon Snow]

Ok I apologize. I thought you refused to accept it any bit. My bad. As for sweetness, that was always an option but the inverse was always just as possible. Sometimes the curtain is just blue

You'd have a point if Dany was actually my favorite character. She's def in my top 5 but my favorite character is actually Jon. Just look at my username

And she actually is the heir to the throne because Aerys disinherited Rhaegar and his children and named Viererys his heir. (Source:The World of Ice and Fire). Viserys then named her Princess of Dragonstone and his heir. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

6 minutes ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

Aerys disinherited Rhaegar

There is no proof about that one. It was only mentioned in a book where it was also mentioned that Elia killed her children. So it either never happened or Aerys never changed the line of succession formally.

6 minutes ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

Viserys then named her Princess of Dragonstone and his heir. 

As per the Targaryen law a woman cannot inherit. Also Viserys was never been crowned as the King by the High Septon and was accepted as the King, so it doesn't matter what he wanted to do or what he did.

[The Fattest Leech]

46 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

You make some good points about it not being the same story, but that's not the argument here. It not being the same story doesn't change the fact that it's spoiling major plots from the books.

The D's may know the ending-ish or the broad strokes, but that doesn't mean they will chose to listen or follow anything, as we have seen that JQC has listed already. At this rate, with all that has been cut and rearranged, the show should have been a two hour movie that cut right to hero Jon and heroine Dany already banging and just fighting the Others. 

The show isn't spoiling anything. 

[Dragon in the North]

1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

The D's may know the ending-ish or the broad strokes, but that doesn't mean they will chose to listen or follow anything, as we have seen that JQC has listed already. At this rate, with all that has been cut and rearranged, the show should have been a two hour movie that cut right to hero Jon and heroine Dany already banging and just fighting the Others. 

The show isn't spoiling anything. 

I've already listed several plot points that the show has spoiled in seasons 5 and 6.

[Wrl6199]

Just now, Dragon in the North said:

I've already listed several plot points that the show has spoiled in seasons 5 and 6.

Yeah this inst the first time that happened.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

22 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

Sansa will go to Winterfell, Jon was assassinated, Drogon came to Daznak's pit, Margaery was arrested, Kevan died, Pycelle was killed, Tyrion killed his father, Varys supports a Targaryen, and Arianne Martell cares about revenge. This is exactly the point JonSnowed is trying to make. The outcome will be the same, but the details are different. It's wishful thinking to believe that the show will not spoil the books. It already has.

A majority of the plot points you listed already happened in book 5, so I'll address the ones which dont:

- Sansa going to Winterfell is not at all likely in the near future of the books. The only way the Vale army can go North currently is by ship, which the Vale lords are very unlikely to do considering winter has hit the North in full force, and it's coming for them too. All signs also point to the battle of Winterfell being resolved by the time Sansa even gains any measure of control of the Vale, which she currently doesn't have in the books. You have Shadrich the Mad Mouse and possibly Jaime/Brienne/the Hound's stories which might intertwine with hers, as well as a strong possibility that she might be involved the upcoming DotD 2.0. In short, Sansa going North in the near future is highly unlikely.

- Arianne Martell does not care about revenge, more about becoming Queen of Westeros.

The only confirmed spoiler we received from S6 was the Hodor thing. Apart from that, it's speculation, but it's probably reasonable to assume that Jon will be resurrected, Boltons will lose control of WF, Dany gains control of the Dothraki, Arya leaves the FM at some point, Bran leaves the cave at some point, Sandor Clegane comes back. That's about it. These are all plot points which are heavily obvious and have been speculated upon for years. 

The true GRRM spoilers -  Shireen and Hodor -  were things which practically no one saw coming. That's how you know it's organic GRRM. Jon and Dany marrying and sitting the IT has been popular fanfiction around here and the webs for years, so you have no idea whether D&D are just pandering to the crowd for ratings, or whether they're following George's outline.

[The Fattest Leech]

22 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

Sansa will go to Winterfell, Jon was assassinated, Drogon came to Daznak's pit, Margaery was arrested, Kevan died, Pycelle was killed, Tyrion killed his father, Varys supports a Targaryen, and Arianne Martell cares about revenge. This is exactly the point JonSnowed is trying to make. The outcome will be the same, but the details are different. It's wishful thinking to believe that the show will not spoil the books. It already has.

Is this what you are talking about the show "spoiled"? Because that stuff was not spoiled by the show at all.

And especially going further into new seasons the show will not spoil the books. The show made a sharp left at Albuquerque back in season 3 and has floored it since to it's own direction... as both the D's and George has stated time and again.

You really think Jon was mutiny stabbed, died dead, and will be rezz'd up by a melancholy Mel who literally tosses her hands in the air to "give up"... with DAVOS by her side, and nothing to do with the randomly disappearing Ghost only to return and say he saw... nothing???? And then to never talk about it to anyone in depth (at all)??? And for it to not have any impact on the story going forward??? This is but one of all the details that the D's have "rearranged" to fit the show, which will have an effect on the ending for the 13(?) episodes they have left. If anything, they don't have time to tell the proper story and are rushing to a viewer friendly ending.

Hardly anyone is even geographically where they need to be or are in the books, so yeah, the show won't ruin anything.

[Meera of Tarth]

7 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Is this what you are talking about the show "spoiled"? Because that stuff was not spoiled by the show at all.

And especially going further into new seasons the show will not spoil the books. The show made a sharp left at Albuquerque back in season 3 and has floored it since to it's own direction... as both the D's and George has stated time and again.

You really think Jon was mutiny stabbed, died dead, and will be rezz'd up by a melancholy Mel who literally tosses her hands in the air to "give up"... with DAVOS by her side, and nothing to do with the randomly disappearing Ghost only to return and say he saw... nothing???? And then to never talk about it to anyone in depth (at all)??? And for it to not have any impact on the story going forward??? This is but one of all the details that the D's have "rearranged" to fit the show, which will have an effect on the ending for the 13(?) episodes they have left. If anything, they don't have time to tell the proper story and are rushing to a viewer friendly ending.

Hardly anyone is even geographically where they need to be or are in the books, so yeah, the show won't ruin anything.

friendly.....this word scares me 

[The Fattest Leech]

30 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

friendly.....this word scares me 

That's the short way of saying fan-fic-for-the-tv-only-crowd-that-doesn't-know-90%-of the story-or-90%-of the characters-so-they-vote-for-the-princess-version