Clegane'sPup

reading Rhllor's fire

49 posts in this topic

Melisandre, the red priestess of Rhollr supposedly sought out Stannis because she believes him to be Azoi Ahai.

Why did Beberro, the High Priest of the red temple in Volantis, Flame of Truth, Light of Wisdom, First Servant of the Lord of Light, Slave of Rhllor send forth word from Volantis that Dany is?

DwD c.22  "Benerro has sent forth the word from Volantis. Her coming is the fulfillment of an ancient prophecy. From smoke and salt was she born to make the world anew. She is Azor Ahai returned … and her triumph over darkness will bring a summer that will never end … death itself will bend its knee, and all those who die fighting in her cause shall be reborn …"

Conversation between LC Snow and Melisandre:

DwD c 49 Stannis is the Lord's chosen, destined to lead the fight against the dark. I have seen it in the flames, read of it in ancient prophecy. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt."  Jon had heard all this before. "Stannis Baratheon was the Lord of Dragonstone, but he was not born there. He was born at Storm's End, like his brothers."

Did she miss read her fires?  Again! Wasn't Dany born at Dragonstone?

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You know, I thought from the beginning that Mel was making her own AA.   Sure, she could be misreading the fires and she even seems to be sincere in her POV chapter in ADWD.   Maybe like Thoros, she was sent to recruit believers, hooked Selyse then Robert died and she found a way to get a king (or even an entire realm?) in her thrall?  She is manipulative--she knows full well Stannis' sword isn't really Lightbringer.    Then she constantly searches the fires for word about Stannis.    I think she's a true believer, I just don't think she's plugged into R'hllor the way she thinks she is.   I do find it curious that she hasn't heard about Dany at all.  Maybe she hasn't checked in with headquarters in a while?  

Still with Stannis, he hasn't reached game over yet at all and may still do something wonderful or miraculous that Mel really did see in her fires and misunderstood.  Would be fun to read her figuring out that Jon Snow or even Dany is the real AA but Stannis still fulfills whatever she saw in the flames.  

Then again, I also wonder if Mel isn't a rogue operator, really removed from the main faith.   

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41 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Did she miss read her fires?  Again! Wasn't Dany born at Dragonstone?

Unless something miraculous happens to Melisandre going forward, she should just put in an application to the nearest Renaissance Festival to work as a palmist in a dingy, fake gypsy wagon reading hands for cash.

She just doesn't get it, just like when she asks to see a glimpse of AA and all she sees is Snow, she also sees this about Stannis and doesn't get the hint:

Melisandre's face darkened. "That creature is dangerous. Many a time I have glimpsed him in my flames. Sometimes there are skulls about him, and his lips are red with blood."
[Jon] A wonder you haven't had the poor man burned. All it would take was a word in the queen's ear, and Patchface would feed her fires. "You see fools in your fire, but no hint of Stannis?"

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Just now, The Fattest Leech said:

Unless something miraculous happens to Melisandre going forward, she should just put in an application to the nearest Renaissance Festival to work as a palmist in a dingy, fake gypsy wagon reading hands for cash.

She just doesn't get it, just like when she asks to see a glimpse of AA and all she sees is Snow, she also sees this about Stannis and doesn't get the hint:

Melisandre's face darkened. "That creature is dangerous. Many a time I have glimpsed him in my flames. Sometimes there are skulls about him, and his lips are red with blood."
[Jon] A wonder you haven't had the poor man burned. All it would take was a word in the queen's ear, and Patchface would feed her fires. "You see fools in your fire, but no hint of Stannis?"

Pretty much.

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7 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Maybe she hasn't checked in with headquarters in a while?  

That is what I was thinking.

Seriously though I appreciate your insight on multiple topics.

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10 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Unless something miraculous happens to Melisandre going forward, she should just put in an application to the nearest Renaissance Festival to work as a palmist in a dingy, fake gypsy wagon reading hands for cash.

A Marylander I presume. If so, the festival is top notch.

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Just now, Clegane'sPup said:

A Marylander I presume. If so, the festival is top notch.

How'd ya guess??? :D. I do love it there, massive inaccuracies and all. 

Im on my phone which makes it hard to find and quote properly, but there is a SSM where George says Mel is off on her own quest. Maybe why she is getting things wrong is because she has not checked in with HQ in a while as @Curled Finger says. 

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Mel doesn't seem to be able to Interpret her flames as well as Benerro or Moqorro. But her misreading is leading her to Jon. Everything with Stannis was to take her to Jon, she just didn't know it. Plus I don't think either of the red priests are wrong. I don't see why both Jon and Dany can't be Azor Ahai reborn. 

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6 minutes ago, ThePrinceThatKnewNothing said:

Mel doesn't seem to be able to Interpret her flames as well as Benerro or Moqorro

I agree that she doesn't read the flames as well. I also think that Moqorro is fibbing to Vic.

 

9 minutes ago, ThePrinceThatKnewNothing said:

I don't see why both Jon and Dany can't be Azor Ahai reborn. 

I am not well versed with the legends.I kinda think the Azor Ahai legend refers to one person.

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Melisandre is not only misreading the flames , but ,which I find interesting , has not detected Dany and her dragons. Either she is following fool fire of the red Rahloo or she is the beast rising from the broken tower .

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I agree that she doesn't read the flames as well. I also think that Moqorro is fibbing to Vic.

 

I am not well versed with the legends.I kinda think the Azor Ahai legend refers to one person.

Oh the legend definitely is one person. But I don't see why Azor Ahai reborn has to be one person, the prophecy itself could be true of both Jon and Dany. And then there's the dragon has three heads, the Prince that was promised, the stallion who mounts the world, it all seems to interlink.

 

8 hours ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

Melisandre is not only misreading the flames , but ,which I find interesting , has not detected Dany and her dragons. Either she is following fool fire of the red Rahloo or she is the beast rising from the broken tower .

 

 

 

Great point about the bit about her being the beast rising from the broken tower. Never thought of that before  

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Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.

That part doesn't fit Jon, does it?

First time I became suspicious about Stannis being the promised saviour was when blind Aemon stated that Lightbringer may burn brightly, but it's cold. Chapters later, Jon confirmed the observation.

I then thought that Melisandre might have seen exactly that in her flames: a person born amidst smoke and salt (Renly in the show: "What? Is he a ham?" :D). The rest was her own interpretation together with a certain lack of historical knowledge maybe. As I remember, she was a slave child sold to a Red Temple. I don't know how the education there looks like.

It always struck me that all she saw in the flames became true, but her interpretations almost always missed the target, because she wanted to know too badly. That's the problem of a host of astrologers, fortune-tellers and the like when they try to get an intellectual grasp of the mystery. And/or crave for power...

 

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3 hours ago, Moving Watch said:

That part doesn't fit Jon, does it?

 

Jon is quite possibly about to be resurrected or reborn. I also guess the tower of joy could have had salt (tears) and smoke (funeral pyres). I wouldn't rule it out even if I'm not completely convinced, it clearly fits Daenerys better.

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28 minutes ago, Makk said:

Jon is quite possibly about to be resurrected or reborn. I also guess the tower of joy could have had salt (tears) and smoke (funeral pyres).

I see. Sadly, I'm still missing all the history info, ought to read a bit about it at ToH...

Also, Jon could be reborn at Dragonstone... *pondering away*

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1 hour ago, Moving Watch said:

I see. Sadly, I'm still missing all the history info, ought to read a bit about it at ToH...

Also, Jon could be reborn at Dragonstone... *pondering away*

Just out of curiosity, do you know who Jon Snows mother probably/almost certainly is?

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Lyanna - unless there are any new insights? I know about the occurrences at the tower of joy, it's in the novel after all, I just don't know where it stands, how it looks and all the particulars.

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3 hours ago, Makk said:

Jon is quite possibly about to be resurrected or reborn. I also guess the tower of joy could have had salt (tears) and smoke (funeral pyres). I wouldn't rule it out even if I'm not completely convinced, it clearly fits Daenerys better.

That is quite possibly one way to look at it. It doesn't however address why a priestess and a priest of Rhllor have differing views. As Mel is talking up Stannis and Benerro is talking up Dany and dar ain't no Jon mentioned. Then I gotta take into consideration that pesky Moqarro person who is chatting it up with Vic.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

It doesn't however address why a priestess and a priest of Rhllor have differing views.

Why does that surprise you? Ask three astrologers the same question, and you will probably get four different answers. :P

The image is one thing, the interpretation something completely different. Never forget the individual mindset behind the prophecy. The imagery is always true, while the subjective intellect is always prone to errors and misinterpretations, just because it's subjective. It's got nothing to do with malevolence, to begin with.

As an example take the return of the supposed Arya. Mel saw in the flames a grey clad girl on a dying horse (or something like that). She saw the truth. Now, she heard from Jon that his sister was married to the monster Ramsay Bolton in Winterfell, and she knew how Jon was afraid for her and how wretched Arya must have been. She didn't want to mislead him, she wanted to predict him as accurately as possible, and surely she wanted to perplex him, so she mixed all information together in a stew named: "Your sister Arya is on her way to you!" It's a quite common mistake to leap to false conclusions, because the data seem to match so perfectly (Melisandre: "I had to be Arya, who else could it be?"), and this holds true not only for psychics and the like, but also for scientists.

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Dany was born  among smoke and salt and hatched her dragons out of petrified eggs.  She is the best fit in my opinion.  Then again, GRRM takes childlike delight in unreliable narrators and devious misdirections.  I think Mel is a fanatic who can't stand the thought of not being  the tool of the Red God in this  prophecy.  It makes me wonder if she is being willfully ignorant (twisting events around her to shoehorn into the prophecy), being misled by the Red God, being misled by someone/something else, or if she is actually right.

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Why did Melisandre seek out Stannis? Did she see him in her flames and decided to seek him out on her own, or is she on a mission on behalf of the red priests? It doesn't seem at any point as if the latter is the case, when you compare to Moqorro who has been sent out by the priesthood.

You're right. Melisandre has gone to Stannis entirely on her own, and has her own agenda.

SSM, http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Asshai.com_Interview_in_Barcelona/):

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