Brandon's Squire

[Clegane'sPup]

Is it possible Ethan Glover, Brandon’s squire had information about Lyanna?  Squires from what I have read in the novels, ride with & assist their man. Could Ethan have overheard something?

I am unsure of how Brandon was informed about Lyanna. That also means that I am unsure of who informed Brandon about Lyanna. Was Ethan by Brandon’s side when Brandon received the news about Lyanna?

Any ideas why Ethan the only one to survive death at KL? I guess that means that he was simply forgotten about and left alone in the dungeon until after the sack of KL. Somehow Brandon’s squire, Ethan, ends up riding with Eddard to Rhaegar’s tower of joy.

[Ashes Of Westeros]

Probably he was the youngest of them and that's why he wasn't killed but just thrown to prison and forgotten. Or he was supposed to bring news about brandon to Rickard, but later this plan was changed.

I guess he could have overheard something but I'm not sure that he hspent enough time in hanging around KL to gather all the information that was needed. Ned could take Ethan for his own squire after Brandon's death

[King Ned Stark]

Just spitballing here, or maybe using the 10th man rule, but what if Ethan wasn't jailed because of mere chance, or something he knew or heard, but to coerce  Brandon into lying.  We have two examples in the books of Starks not being able to be manipulated except when it concerns danger to someone they care about.

Maybe everything we think we know concerning those events is actually wrong.  A magician's greatest trick is misdirection.

If it was somewhat known that there was a rift between the king and his heir apparent, and that Rhaegar stayed mostly on Dragonstone, then why would Brandon follow Rhaegar to Kings Landing?  It's not as if he was tracking Rhaegar's group.  Possibly, he went to Kings Landing to ask the king for redress, and did not in fact ride in yelling for Rhaegar to "come out and die".  We have that from a drunk Jaime, who may or may not have actually been present when Brandon showed up.  

[estermonty python]

I think the point of Ethan surviving and then dying at ToJ is just to serve certain narrative purposes.  The North would need to learn about Rickard and Brandon from someone who was there, Ned needs to know where to go to find Lyanna, etc.  Having one northman survive allows Ned and his bannermen to be sure what exactly happened in KL without relying on Southron accounts, and presumably he knew where to go to find Lyanna - so I think his purpose is just to tie up loose ends.

[Clegane'sPup]

4 hours ago, King Ned Stark said:

Just spitballing here, or maybe using the 10th man rule,

I had to look up the phrase “10^th man rule.” Other than the:

if nine people completely agree that a strategy or plan is correct, then the tenth person should take a contrarian view to avoid the pitfalls of groupthink, where fatal flaws in a strategy are missed in favor of group agreement.

I also found a description by a person named Armi Legge who uses a Twain quote to explain:

“When you find yourself on the side of the majority, you should pause and reflect.”– Mark Twain  A lot of people read that quote as “if you find yourself on the side of the majority then they’re obviously wrong because they’re part of conventional wisdom and Monsanto and big business and therefore my weird fringe idea with no supporting evidence must be correct.”  The point of using the “tenth man” policy is not to do the opposite of what you think is right. It’s to constantly question your beliefs and force yourself to examine all of the evidence — not just the stuff that supports your ideas.

 

Thanks. I learned something new.

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, estermonty python said:

I think the point of Ethan surviving and then dying at ToJ is just to serve certain narrative purposes.  The North would need to learn about Rickard and Brandon from someone who was there, Ned needs to know where to go to find Lyanna, etc.  Having one northman survive allows Ned and his bannermen to be sure what exactly happened in KL without relying on Southron accounts, and presumably he knew where to go to find Lyanna - so I think his purpose is just to tie up loose ends.

On the face of it Ethan is merely an insignificant side character. What got me to thinking about Ethan’s relevance is squire Podrick’s interactions with Tyrion and Brienne. Pod is hanging around doing his duties, but he hears things. Sees things. I’m thinking Ethan saw and heard things.

Ethan is dead so I won’t be reading about what he knew or saw. Howland, on the other hand will be able to fill in the gaps as to who knew what when.

Basically I'm just curious why Brandon's squire was part of the group that accompanied Eddard.

[Clegane'sPup]

6 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Probably he was the youngest of them and that's why he wasn't killed but just thrown to prison and forgotten. Or he was supposed to bring news about brandon to Rickard, but later this plan was changed.

I guess he could have overheard something but I'm not sure that he hspent enough time in hanging around KL to gather all the information that was needed. Ned could take Ethan for his own squire after Brandon's death

Just tossing ideas around, do you think Varys disguised as Rugen could have had anything to do with Ethan’s survival?

While I’m at it, does anyone, not you specifically, have any recollection of Ethan actually being in the dungeon? I’m kinda assuming he was, unless someone can give me text, that Brandon and companions were held in the dungeon until Rickard and the other men arrived

[estermonty python]

8 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

On the face of it Ethan is merely an insignificant side character. What got me to thinking about Ethan’s relevance is squire Podrick’s interactions with Tyrion and Brienne. Pod is hanging around doing his duties, but he hears things. Sees things. I’m thinking Ethan saw and heard things.

 

Ethan is dead so I won’t be reading about what he knew or saw. Howland, on the other hand will be able to fill in the gaps as to who knew what when.

 

Basically I'm just curious why Brandon's squire was part of the group that accompanied Eddard.

Actually I think Wex, Theon's squire, is an even better example than Pod.  As is Ser Hugh of the Vale.  And we are falling all over ourselves on this forum trying to figure out what happened to Richard Lonmouth.  

But yeah my best guess is they needed someone who was in both places to explain logically how Ned knew where to go, and for narrative reasons GRRM needed that guy to be dead now.

[Eden-Mackenzie]

19 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Is it possible Ethan Glover, Brandon’s squire had information about Lyanna?  Squires from what I have read in the novels, ride with & assist their man. Could Ethan have overheard something?

I am unsure of how Brandon was informed about Lyanna. That also means that I am unsure of who informed Brandon about Lyanna. Was Ethan by Brandon’s side when Brandon received the news about Lyanna?

Any ideas why Ethan the only one to survive death at KL? I guess that means that he was simply forgotten about and left alone in the dungeon until after the sack of KL. Somehow Brandon’s squire, Ethan, ends up riding with Eddard to Rhaegar’s tower of joy.

I know it isn't the main focus of your post, but I think the middle bit is an interesting question as well. I imangine it was a more subdued version of Tywin being informed of Catelyn's abduction of Tyrion. Someone would have seen Rhaegar and Lyanna go off together, or on the road, and perhaps Rhaegar, like Catelyn, laid a false trail, letting it be known they were headed to King's Landing rather than their true destination, and that information made its way to Brandon one way or another. I suppose it's possible someone in Brandon's party was the witness in question, since we do not know where Lyanna was when everything happened, and Brandon's companions are a somewhat motley crew. 

Whether Ethan was with Brandon when he first found out is (in my opinion) immaterial, because either he was, or he was not but was quickly informed (Rhaegar has my sister, fetch my things and saddle the horses, we're headed to King's Landing), but either way Ethan was definitely near at hand, since they were on the road at the time. 

The Glovers are not nearly as high a house as those of Brandon's other companions, Ethan's and his father's deaths would not have had the same lesson-teaching qualities as the Stark, Arryn, Royce, and Mallister deaths. As a squire, Ethan was simply doing his duty by following Brandon to King's Landing, and while Aerys is not someone who generally lets silly things like logic dictate his actions, perhaps he could have been persuaded to see that suggesting it is acceptable for a squire to disobey could "trickle up" to suggesting it is acceptable for a lord to disobey a King? A scenario such as this does have Varys written all over it.