Why was Jaime kept on as a kingsguard?

[theblackdragonI]

As a member of the Kingsguard he killed his king, an unforgivable crime. But why was he kept on in the KG? 

We know that Ned and I'm sure much more wanted him dismissed/forced to the watch/executed.

But if Robert pardoned him to appease the Lannisters, why didn't he dismiss him from the KG? Why didn't Tywin push for this?

Was keeping him in the KG meant as a punishment? Because that seems like a real corrupt and stupid punishment as he was a permanent stain on the order and we know that at least Barristan wasn't fond of him in the order. 

[LordImp]

Robert hated the Targaryens more than anything , he tought what Jaime did was a good act . So i think thats the main reason Jaime continued as a Kingsguard . But it could also be that Tywin pushed for it yes. 

[theblackdragonI]

4 minutes ago, LordImp said:

Robert hated the Targaryens more than anything , he tought what Jaime did was a good act . So i think thats the main reason Jaime continued as a Kingsguard . But it could also be that Tywin pushed for it yes. 

I'd imagine that Tywin would have pushed for Jaime to be released from his vows if he was to be pardoned? Or maybe he didn't want to push his luck. I guess that's probably why, all we know is that Ned wanted him out and Jon Arryn wanted him to stay. But I thought Jon was a really honourable guy, if he wanted to appease the Lannisters why did he advise Robert to keep a dishonourable knight in the kingsguard?

[Zoo_Dane]

Tywin wouldn't allow Jamie to be sent to the Wall or executed. Robert needed the lannisters (i.e. Why he married Cersei) to cement his rule so I doubt he would start his reign but killing his new queens brother and his strongest allies heir. 

There also was no precedent for releasing a KG from their vows (Barristan was the first) so maybe they didn't see that as an option? Death/Wall or remain KG? Remaining KG was the only way to ensure Robert would stay on the throne. 

[The Wolves]

12 minutes ago, Zoo_Dane said:

Tywin wouldn't allow Jamie to be sent to the Wall or executed. Robert needed the lannisters (i.e. Why he married Cersei) to cement his rule so I doubt he would start his reign but killing his new queens brother and his strongest allies heir. 

There also was no precedent for releasing a KG from their vows (Barristan was the first) so maybe they didn't see that as an option? Death/Wall or remain KG? Remaining KG was the only way to ensure Robert would stay on the throne. 

Robert DID NOT need the Lannisters like at all. 

And Jaime only stayed on as a Kingsguard was because Robert was so stupid. 

[LordImp]

47 minutes ago, theblackdragonI said:

I'd imagine that Tywin would have pushed for Jaime to be released from his vows if he was to be pardoned? Or maybe he didn't want to push his luck. I guess that's probably why, all we know is that Ned wanted him out and Jon Arryn wanted him to stay. But I thought Jon was a really honourable guy, if he wanted to appease the Lannisters why did he advise Robert to keep a dishonourable knight in the kingsguard?

I think keeping Jaime in the guard was Roberts decision alone . But if Jaime was going to be sent to the Wall Tywin would go all crazy even if is daughter was Queen , Jon knew that he couldent risk loosing Tywins support . 

[LordImp]

17 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Robert DID NOT need the Lannisters like at all. 

And Jaime only stayed on as a Kingsguard was because Robert was so stupid. 

Robert needed the Lannister gold. 

[marsyao]

19 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Robert DID NOT need the Lannisters like at all. 

And Jaime only stayed on as a Kingsguard was because Robert was so stupid. 

Robert was not stupid in polictical sense, he kept Jaime as Kingsguad because he used as an insurance for Tywin Lannister's good behivor, so Jaime was a glorified hostage

[Zoo_Dane]

3 minutes ago, marsyao said:

Robert was not stupid in polictical sense, he kept Jaime as Kingsguad because he used as an insurance for Tywin Lannister's good behivor, so Jaime was a glorified hostage

I think this makes sense but wouldn't Cersei be "hostage" enough? 

[marsyao]

4 minutes ago, Zoo_Dane said:

I think this makes sense but wouldn't Cersei be "hostage" enough? 

Cersei was merely a daughter, Jaime was the only child Tywin really cared and Robert could dangled "one day I would release Jaime from his oath if you behave" in front of Tywin

[Eden-Mackenzie]

Serving in the Kingsguard is a lifetime commitment, it wasn't until Cersei needed an excuse to get rid of a potential threat to her son's reign that anyone was dismissed from the Kingsguard without also being sent to the Wall. 

Tywin's justification for the murder of Rhaegar's children was the Lannisters came late to the Rebellion and needed to prove their loyalty to Robert; the same may hold true for why he did not immediately demand Jaime's release from the Kingsguard - he may have thought he did not have enough capital to make such a request. But then, as time goes on and Robert drains Aerys's treasury, Tywin begins lending money to the Crown hand over fist - perhaps he would have been willing to forgive said debt in exchange for his son's release from his vows? 

Decisions concerning actual governance were not really Robert's forte, and Jon Arryn seems to have been focused on ensuring an end to all hostilities. Releasing Jaime from his Kingsguard vows without punishment could have reignited pro-Targaryen sentiment, which the Martels could have capitalized on as well - pardoning and releasing Jaime could have been interpreted as a reward for Tywin. Leaving Jaime where he was may seem like a terrible plan, but when you consider the alternatives in light of what what Jon Arryn was trying to accomplish, it was really the only decision he could make.

(I don't actually agree with the decision, as I think pre-maiming Jaime is the antithesis of a "good" Kingsguard, but I can see why Jon Arryn let it be.)

[Sensenmenn]

So he could quit of his own volition.

[The Wolves]

41 minutes ago, LordImp said:

Robert needed the Lannister gold. 

For what? 

Ned even says that Aerys had chest full of gold, so why would Robert need Lannister gold? And it would be Tywin who would be jumping at the chance to get into the good graces of the new king not the other way around. 

[BlueNightzx]

I believe that was jaime himself who wanted to continue on the KG, and to stay close to cersei, i don't see robert giving a second thought if jaime or tywin wantet to get jaime out of the KG, i don't believe that his position on the KG was fruit of some political maneuver whatsoever

[The Wolves]

41 minutes ago, marsyao said:

Robert was not stupid in polictical sense, he kept Jaime as Kingsguad because he used as an insurance for Tywin Lannister's good behivor, so Jaime was a glorified hostage

NOTHING in the text have ever hinted at that Robert kept Jaime on to insure Tywin's good behavior, where did you come up with this? 

Tywin had just ordered the murder of two innocent royal Targ babies and their mother a Princess of Dorne brutally murdered and did it all to show loyalty to Robert. Now answer me why Robert would keep Jaime as a glorified hostage after all the murdering Tywin did to show his loyalty? 

And yes Robert is stupid especially in the political sense, if he wasn't he would have kept the Lannisters far away from that throne after the underhanded bullshit they pulled during RR. 

[John Suburbs]

2 hours ago, theblackdragonI said:

As a member of the Kingsguard he killed his king, an unforgivable crime. But why was he kept on in the KG? 

We know that Ned and I'm sure much more wanted him dismissed/forced to the watch/executed.

But if Robert pardoned him to appease the Lannisters, why didn't he dismiss him from the KG? Why didn't Tywin push for this?

Was keeping him in the KG meant as a punishment? Because that seems like a real corrupt and stupid punishment as he was a permanent stain on the order and we know that at least Barristan wasn't fond of him in the order. 

I thought there was something to the effect that Cersei asked for Jaime to remain as KG, maybe as a wedding gift (?). Otherwise, he would be shipped back to Casterly Rock and, well, you know...

 

 

[Trigger Warning]

Bob didn't care, if anything he approved. People serve for life so I would imagine he just left Jaime as is, stripping him of his cloak over something he approved of would be more trouble than simply not caring and letting Jaime go on as normal. 

[l2 0 5 5]

It's a fair question. I get that the KG is a lifetime vow, but so is protecting the king, and Jaime killed Aerys, so I think we can rule out oaths as playing a part why Jaime stayed on.  You would think that Tywin would try to bargain with Robert and say, 'hey, for my support, and marrying my daughter, release my son and heir to be free of the KG.' My guess is that Jaime had no qualms with staying in the KG so he could be closer to Cersei since she would now be in KL after marrying Robert. Jaime being a full grown man at the time was more than capable of making his own choices without Tywin's say-so.

[marsyao]

52 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

NOTHING in the text have ever hinted at that Robert kept Jaime on to insure Tywin's good behavior, where did you come up with this? 

Tywin had just ordered the murder of two innocent royal Targ babies and their mother a Princess of Dorne brutally murdered and did it all to show loyalty to Robert. Now answer me why Robert would keep Jaime as a glorified hostage after all the murdering Tywin did to show his loyalty? 

 

Tywin was a late comer of the rebellion, so he had to do somehting to ensure his position in the new regime, hence the sacking of King's land and killing the royal babies, this action ensure Tywin as a big player, but not ensure his loyalty to Robert

52 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

And yes Robert is stupid especially in the political sense, if he wasn't he would have kept the Lannisters far away from that throne after the underhanded bullshit they pulled during RR. 

What are you talking about ? After Robert became the King, besides his own stormland, there were such major power in the westero: the Noth, Riverland, Vale, The Reach and The Dorn, now let us see how Robert, a new usurper, how to play politics, first he knw Lord Stark was loyal to him no mater waht, so he did not need to reward him, so Starks was just simply sent back to the North, he named Lord Arryn to be his hand thus The Vale would be at his side, then though the marriages, he also got Riverland. He was highly suspicous about Tywin, and did not want to keep him in the King's landing, but he did not want to unecessarly offend Tywin's pride, so he married Cersei, and this would be the first time a member of House Lannister was married to a royal family, a high honor and Tywin would have to grudgely satisfied, and at the same time he kept Jamie at his side as Kingsguard/hostage..

With Stornland, north, westland, riverland and vale at his side, and reach highly divided, The Dorn would not dare to make a move, thus no one in the seven kingdom could challene Robert's power

[The Wolves]

9 minutes ago, marsyao said:

Tywin was a late comer of the rebellion, so he had to do somehting to ensure his position in the new regime, hence the sacking of King's land and killing the royal babies, this action ensure Tywin as a big player, but not ensure his loyalty to Robert

What are you talking about ? After Robert became the King, besides his own stormland, there were such major power in the westero: the Noth, Riverland, Vale, The Reach and The Dorn, now let us see how Robert, a new usurper, how to play politics, first he knw Lord Stark was loyal to him no mater waht, so he did not need to reward him, so Starks was just simply sent back to the North, he named Lord Arryn to be his hand thus The Vale would be at his side, then though the marriages, he also got Riverland. He was highly suspicous about Tywin, and did not want to keep him in the King's landing, but he did not want to unecessarly offend Tywin's pride, so he married Cersei, and this would be the first time a member of House Lannister was married to a royal family, a high honor and Tywin would have to grudgely satisfied, and at the same time he kept Jamie at his side as Kingsguard/hostage..

With Stornland, north, westland, riverland and vale at his side, and reach highly divided, The Dorn would not dare to make a move, thus no one in the seven kingdom could challene Robert's power

You keep making things up. Where are you getting that Robert was suspicious of Tywin? 

There is nothing in the text that suggest that Robert was ever suspicious of Tywin or any of the Lannisters, why do you keep saying this? And people please stop defending the senseless and unnecessary murders of Aegon and Rhaenys with "Tywin had to prove his loyalty" this is some bullshit to the highest degree. Houses Tyrell, Dorne, Greyjoy, or their bannermen didn't have to lay any dead children or bodies in front of Robert wrapped in their house colors to prove their loyalty.