Theda Baratheon Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 3 hours ago, Fez said: I don't trust them, not after Interstellar; though tbf I don't know if Joy was involved in that or if it was just Nolan. But still, to me that means Nolan is perfectly capable of badly screwing up a reveal/ending. I hope that isn't the case here, but we'll still. Everything in the show this day without unfairly using their other work to judge them hasn't got me worried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 13 hours ago, red snow said: I've discussed this before but you're assuming 40K has the same value today as it does in the future (I don't even think they said it was dollars). Obviously that line is meant to make us think it's expensive but I wonder if it's really as expensive as being more than an average salary per day? I think it's more likely to be in the $4000 a day realm which is still cutting out most people but could still appeal to a large market. It's the kind of shit people would save up for. I tend to assume that unless a SF story makes a point of explaining how much a unit of currency is worth that we're meant to assume it is roughly comparable to what we'd expect a similar amount to be worth in the contemporary economy. Otherwise it's completely meaningless mentioning it since as you say inflation or currency changes could mean that one million could be worth massively different amounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 The park is obviously super expensive if the people who work there can't even afford to go. They would probably have been better off not putting in a specific $$ figure and simply allowing it to be clear that it's for the super rich, but that's a total nitpick. I'm now almost convinced that William is the MiB, though I don't love it as I still think transitioning Delores back to the present after the reveal is going to be tough to pull off well. If the Abernathy glitch was now, and Maeve is now....but we're seeing only past Delores, I don't know, awkward. I wonder if it's possible there will be a big blow up and the season ends with her back in her loop waking up? That seems too weak to me, so probably unlikely. But, my complaints are really minimal and in the vein of hoping it all is pulled off well since I really love the show and the detail and the uncertainty of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordos Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 I have not read the whole thread, but I really want to ask this question. In episode 5 of Westworld, Logan is captured by confederate host robots and William with Dolores abandon him. There are multiple questions going through my mind here. First: Were the hosts rebelling and then killed Logan? Or did they later let Logan go after terrifying him as they are supposed to do? Second: Does William realize the hosts are rebelling or has he lost grip of reality that it no longer matters? Third: Does the park owner Ford assuming the different timeline theory at that point of the story, know or care that the hosts are harming the guests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 18 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said: Everything in the show this day without unfairly using their other work to judge them hasn't got me worried Well if we're just going off the show, its too self-serious and most of the characters don't feel real (and not just the hosts). Its fun as a puzzle-box, for now, and it looks gorgeous, but to me its far from a masterpiece and so I feel like the creators are potentially very fallible. Especially because I know at least one of them is from previous work. ETA: And I didn't love the Bernard reveal either. The "What door?" moment was truly fantastic, but the scene afterwards could've been handled better, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Question 1: The Confederales had discovered their nitroglycerin had been switched out for booze and since they had all been part of the team, Dolores and William were running for the train to escape them. Dolores thinks Logan will be killed, but that's part of her role playing, whereas William knows the rules of the park say Logan can't be killed. We don't know yet if he was. Do you believe this is a timeline from the past? Maybe this is the incident from 30 years ago. Do you think this is a timeline from the present? Maybe he will be killed. We don't know yet, but since he's a senior executive from the corporation that buys more of the park, I am assuming he isn't killed. Question 2: I don't think William has lost a grip, he's operating under the rules he knows. Remember, he keeps asking Dolores to stay back, because she can be hurt or killed and he can't be. Question 3: Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Fez said: Well if we're just going off the show, its too self-serious and most of the characters don't feel real (and not just the hosts). Its fun as a puzzle-box, for now, and it looks gorgeous, but to me its far from a masterpiece and so I feel like the creators are potentially very fallible. Especially because I know at least one of them is from previous work. ETA: And I didn't love the Bernard reveal either. The "What door?" moment was truly fantastic, but the scene afterwards could've been handled better, imo. There are a lot of characters, no? I think Ford, Bernard, Maeve, Dolores, Elsie feel pretty real to me. MiB is obviously being kept grey for probably the 2 timeline reveal. But, this seems less character driven than really thematically driven if that makes sense. I usually give credit for things that are truly ambitious and this is thematically ambitious as hell. Although the Interstellar end was a little hokey, it didn't bother me. I am the only person on Planet Earth who hated Memento. I get it was sort of groundbreaking, but I hated it. So, there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 14 hours ago, Cas Stark said: The park is obviously super expensive if the people who work there can't even afford to go. They would probably have been better off not putting in a specific $$ figure and simply allowing it to be clear that it's for the super rich, but that's a total nitpick. I'm now almost convinced that William is the MiB, though I don't love it as I still think transitioning Delores back to the present after the reveal is going to be tough to pull off well. If the Abernathy glitch was now, and Maeve is now....but we're seeing only past Delores, I don't know, awkward. I wonder if it's possible there will be a big blow up and the season ends with her back in her loop waking up? That seems too weak to me, so probably unlikely. But, my complaints are really minimal and in the vein of hoping it all is pulled off well since I really love the show and the detail and the uncertainty of it all. If the Abernathy glitch is now and Dolores is in the past, can't we just be seeing the Incident? Whatever it is, Dolores survives it and is reprogrammed. The glitch is William/MiB trying to redo the original incident which is hidden within the maze... 1 hour ago, Fez said: ETA: And I didn't love the Bernard reveal either. The "What door?" moment was truly fantastic, but the scene afterwards could've been handled better, imo. Really? What didn't you like about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 2 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said: If the Abernathy glitch is now and Dolores is in the past, can't we just be seeing the Incident? Whatever it is, Dolores survives it and is reprogrammed. The glitch is William/MiB trying to redo the original incident which is hidden within the maze... Really? What didn't you like about it? I think you're right . I can see it being the original incident. In the film I recall a virus being spread from robot to robot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 4 hours ago, Fez said: Well if we're just going off the show, its too self-serious and most of the characters don't feel real (and not just the hosts). Its fun as a puzzle-box, for now, and it looks gorgeous, but to me its far from a masterpiece and so I feel like the creators are potentially very fallible. Especially because I know at least one of them is from previous work. ETA: And I didn't love the Bernard reveal either. The "What door?" moment was truly fantastic, but the scene afterwards could've been handled better, imo. All the characters seem pretty real to me. We have a good amount of varied, interesting characters. Human and host. The only one that didn't seem real was Sizemore. How could it have been handled better. It's all well and good saying it could be better but like how Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 4 hours ago, Fragile Bird said: Question 1: The Confederales had discovered their nitroglycerin had been switched out for booze and since they had all been part of the team, Dolores and William were running for the train to escape them. Dolores thinks Logan will be killed, but that's part of her role playing, whereas William knows the rules of the park say Logan can't be killed. We don't know yet if he was. Do you believe this is a timeline from the past? Maybe this is the incident from 30 years ago. Do you think this is a timeline from the present? Maybe he will be killed. We don't know yet, but since he's a senior executive from the corporation the buys more of the park, I am assuming he isn't killed. If the William/MiB theory is correct then I'd bet Logan will be killed in "the incident." Then William takes his upper management job in part because he's engaged to Logan's sister and it seems to be some kinda family business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, RumHam said: If the William/MiB theory is correct then I'd bet Logan will be killed in "the incident." Then William takes his upper management job in part because he's engaged to Logan's sister and it seems to be some kinda family business. See, I was kinda thinking along those lines too, but I'm not sure. Is 'the incident' and Arnold's death one and the same? They refer to both as if they are, but nothing really rules out them being different events, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 20 minutes ago, Gertrude said: See, I was kinda thinking along those lines too, but I'm not sure. Is 'the incident' and Arnold's death one and the same? They refer to both as if they are, but nothing really rules out them being different events, right? It could go either way, but if the the William/MiB theory is true I think they were two separate events. With Arnold dying via suicide by robot just before the park opened, and William and Logan arriving four years later as the Delos representatives. They arrive just as Arnold's latent revenge code is starting to cause the incident/critical failure mentioned in the pilot. Logan and maybe some others die and it looks like the park is done, but William see's the potential and convinces Delos to invest. Of course this made a little more sense when we thought that the Man in Black and not Charlotte was the board member already in the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 New thread up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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