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He would have killed me but for Howland Reed.


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3 hours ago, Laughing Storm Reborn said:

Except Aerys declared Viserys his heir ahead of Rhaegar's line (if my memory is in place) before jaime killed him, so there was never a "king jon" if rlj is true

Now the 3 kgs might have forsaken viserys out of loyalty to rhaegar, wich would make them supreme hipocrites

It's entirely possible they didn't know about this though

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14 minutes ago, Livesundersink said:

It's entirely possible they didn't know about this though

The thing is I don't think anyone really knew aerys dacreed such a thing. He probably just yelled about it in the throne room after he learned Rheagar had died. The few people who did hear of it are ether dead(roseart), sent to the wall(possibly alister thorn), or don't care(Jamie and varys). So most people probably didn't know he named viserys heir or it fell on deaf ears.

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5 minutes ago, Sensenmenn said:

The thing is I don't think anyone really knew aerys dacreed such a thing. He probably just yelled about it in the throne room after he learned Rheagar had died. The few people who did hear of it are ether dead(roseart), sent to the wall(possibly alister thorn), or don't care(Jamie and varys). So most people probably didn't know he named viserys heir or it fell on deaf ears.

And they're also sworn to protect all members of the royal family not just the king

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11 minutes ago, Sensenmenn said:

The thing is I don't think anyone really knew aerys dacreed such a thing. He probably just yelled about it in the throne room after he learned Rheagar had died. The few people who did hear of it are ether dead(roseart), sent to the wall(possibly alister thorn), or don't care(Jamie and varys). So most people probably didn't know he named viserys heir or it fell on deaf ears.

Wait.   I thought it was Rhaella who crowned Viserys, the little jerk.  On Dragonstone.  

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1 minute ago, Livesundersink said:

And they're also sworn to protect all members of the royal family not just the king

Yet based on everything they would have known which includes the deathes of Aerys, Rheagar, and his family. Then if they fallow the line of succession Aemon/Jon is the right full heir.

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13 minutes ago, Livesundersink said:

And they're also sworn to protect all members of the royal family not just the king

I'm relistening to ADWD AGAIN, for the love of all that's sane and right--and find myself utterly smitten with Barristan's chapters.   He says the KG are sworn to the king, but the king can assign KG to look after members of the royal family, bastards and mistresses.  

The first duty of the Kingsguard was to defend the king from harm or threat. The white knights were sworn to obey the king's commands as well, to keep his secrets, counsel him when counsel was requested and keep silent when it was not, serve his pleasure and defend his name and honor. Strictly speaking, it was purely the king's choice whether or not to extend Kingsguard protection to others, even those of royal blood. Some kings thought it right and proper to dispatch Kingsguard to serve and defend their wives and children, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins of greater and lesser degree, and occasionally even their lovers, mistresses, and bastards. But others preferred to use household knights and men-at-arms for those purposes, whilst keeping their seven as their own personal guard, never far from their sides.  The Queensguard, ADWD

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2 minutes ago, Sensenmenn said:

Yet based on everything they would have known which includes the deathes of Aerys, Rheagar, and his family. Then if they fallow the line of succession Aemon/Jon is the right full heir.

But Jon would still be rhea-gars bastard.

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3 minutes ago, Wrl6199 said:

But Jon would still be rhea-gars bastard.

I really seriously doubt 3 Kingsguard including the Lord Commander and finest knight in the realm would be assigned to a bastard.   This new baby was a king.   

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3 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I really seriously doubt 3 Kingsguard including the Lord Commander and finest knight in the realm would be assigned to a bastard.   This new baby was a king.   

I'd really like to know what their plan was, they didn't seem in to much of a hurry to spirit him away to somewhere safer.

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1 minute ago, Livesundersink said:

I'd really like to know what their plan was, they didn't seem in to much of a hurry to spirit him away to somewhere safer.

Come on Man, this child was just born.   The bed is covered in blood.   They had no time to do anything.   I have no doubt there was a plan to move the child.  

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Yeah, i had a felling my memory was betraying me, Rhaella crowned Viserys in dragonstone, but aerys already expressed disdain towards rhaegar's children let alone a probable bastard (the marriage bit is so weak storywise, they are going to show a video? a piece of paper? poligamy is blasphemy to the seven and a baby is an heir, you are only a king after being crowned)... even if so, the royal house is baratheon of king's landing... for jon to get the IT lawfully some crapy writing needs to be in place, i expect that from d&d not george

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2 hours ago, Laughing Storm Reborn said:

Yeah, i had a felling my memory was betraying me, Rhaella crowned Viserys in dragonstone, but aerys already expressed disdain towards rhaegar's children let alone a probable bastard (the marriage bit is so weak storywise, they are going to show a video? a piece of paper? poligamy is blasphemy to the seven and a baby is an heir, you are only a king after being crowned)... even if so, the royal house is baratheon of king's landing... for jon to get the IT lawfully some crapy writing needs to be in place, i expect that from d&d not george

Incest is also blasphemy to the seven, and the Targaryens managed plenty of those marriages.

I think there are basically a few categories that Jon's potential supporters could fall into (in regard to Jon):

1: People who want Jon for King, regardless of parentage

2: People who need Jon to be of Targaryen stock to support his claim

3: People who at least need a supposed marriage, so they aren't supporting a bastard

4: People who need solid proof that such a union took place

Even those who don't need proof, or a marriage, or Jon to be Targ will use these facts to help support Jon (should he make a bid for the throne). Likewise, his enemies will use these facts (or lack of) to detract from Jon's claim.

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The kings guard are there on Rhaegars order, not Aerys? Right? If so then this is the succession that was planned, in line with Rheagars PtwP obsession. The point made that Ned arrived too soon for the plan to take Jon into hiding could start. In that case a suicide mission, protecting Jon from Robert, becomes hiding Jon. All AD needed to do was kick some ass, which he certainly had a chance of being successful at.  

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1 hour ago, WSmith84 said:

Incest is also blasphemy to the seven, and the Targaryens managed plenty of those marriages.

I think there are basically a few categories that Jon's potential supporters could fall into (in regard to Jon):

1: People who want Jon for King, regardless of parentage

2: People who need Jon to be of Targaryen stock to support his claim

3: People who at least need a supposed marriage, so they aren't supporting a bastard

4: People who need solid proof that such a union took place

Even those who don't need proof, or a marriage, or Jon to be Targ will use these facts to help support Jon (should he make a bid for the throne). Likewise, his enemies will use these facts (or lack of) to detract from Jon's claim.

I suppose so, Robert was 3 in line after all(when he bid for the throne rhaella was at most in the first moments of pregnancy, and she miscarried a lot) and that was frightening to aerys because it would be even easier for the lords to change sides and not giving the impression every guy could be king... blood still talked

forgetting the fact i think the IT does not fit in jon´s story and actually feels out-of-the-blue and wrong, i do not dispute the possibilty but please do not come with a marriage paper or a global bran hologram or the word of a cranogman no one sees for years... if he wins it, let it be as a snow, heck even as a stark, but a targ? imo it takes power from dany's story, it injures the balance of protagonism between characters and it takes the tale a little to disney's playground, but that's me...

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