Sullen Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 18 minutes ago, theguyfromtheVale said: No, but he has the same say as everybody else who does not hold elected office in the first place. Blame wide-spread partisanery and the broken two-party American system for that. Representational democracy works over here in Canada because people actually have the guts to support new parties even if it means they won't win the elections, all that matters is that their views are properly represented. Just look at the Bloc for the quintessential example. Look at the Greens, or look at the NDP for most of it's existence. Sometimes, having your view properly represented is more important than having your party be the winning one, that's a mentality Americans are simply unwilling to embrace. EDIT: No such bullshit rule such as "Winner takes all the province" either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 How about next time Democrats actually state a plan that will result in a measurable objective positive outcome for the lives of minorities instead of just going "hey look at all our black friends that are voting for us". This every Democrat all of a sudden becoming MLK jr when they need votes is becoming increasingly transparent. You are not Frederick Douglass just because you took one day out of your life to vote for an old white lady. Or reform that corrupt mess of a DNC, and for God's sake don't put them on your payroll as soon as they get booted. Or just keep doing what you've been doing and call everyone other than yourselves a racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 33 minutes ago, Risto said: Just a question... Now that Secretary Clinton lost the elections, how will it impact all those TV shows inspired by her? What will happen to Claire Underwood? Or Mellie Grant? Alicia Florrick not going to DC? It may sound stupid, but I am really interested in how Hollywood will deal with the end of such powerful narrative that was persistent on TV for quite some time. Probably nothing, so long as there's folks talking about Michelle Obama running in 4 years. 2 minutes ago, SerPaladin said: Was it you or Fez that was saying the Republicans were in a structural problem in the last week? It's been a long week. I disagree. The Republicans will shuffle things around. My branch, the establishment types, old school fiscal conservatives, we are out of any influence. Populism and a strong dose of Tea Party brand of social conservatism will be in ascendance. I think evangelicals will be just as much on the outs as the National Review Crew, but we shall see, In any case, it's some evil brew called big government conservatism, and it looks to lock down the electoral gains in the rust belt. The Democrats need a new face and voice. Long term demographic trends favor them, but in the short term, they need merely to figure out how to move beyond identity politics. A tribal coalition was the plan, and it didn't work. Either the Ds need a couple more tribes that are represented well in Red states, or they need a class message. They are not so far off that they are "structurally" misaligned. I don't know if I said it last week, but I have said it in the past and I still believe it. Electoral victory papered things over for now, but the ethno-nationalist, big government vision that Trump supporters bought into is very different from Republican orthodoxy. It won't matter for as long as Trump's at least relatively popular in the party, but if those approval ratings fall or there's a Democrat in the White House again in 4 or 8 years; that's all going to come out again. Likewise, if Trump is the latest in a long line of Republican leaders to betray the evangelicals, which I think there's a solid chance of, that may finally be the straw that breaks that alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 45 minutes ago, SerPaladin said: Was it you or Fez that was saying the Republicans were in a structural problem in the last week? It's been a long week. Oh I was definitely saying that. And I largely think that holds true in the long term. But it looks like the long term was longer than I had imagined. 45 minutes ago, SerPaladin said: The Democrats need a new face and voice. Yes, I think this is true. It's unfortunate that Hillary lost and I think she would have been a good president. But, her era is done in the Democratic Party and fresh faces are needed. Particularly candidates that can get people to vote. 45 minutes ago, SerPaladin said: Was it you or Fez that was saying the Republicans were in a structural problem in the last The Democrats need a new face and voice. Long term demographic trends favor them, but in the short term, they need merely to figure out how to move beyond identity politics. But see here is the thing. Right now the Democratic Party is the party that represents minorities. And those minorities have some legitimate issues. And those issues need to be addressed. And those issues, no matter how legitimate or compelling, are always going to be labeled "identity politics" by certain people. Maybe the party that really needs to tamp down identity politics is the Republican Party. Things would certainly better if minorities and women felt just as comfortable in either party. But, I don't see the Republican Party doing that. Rather it will probably just sell the simple "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" story that it has always liked. And stop doing shit like, oh I don't know, blaming financial crises on poor minority people. Or go around accusing minority kids of doing a crime they clearly did not commit. ETA: Also, I'm very much an old school bread and butter issues Democrat. Economic issues are very much in the front of my mind. But, it's hard for me not to think that certain things that should be done for people like higher minimum wage laws and universal healthcare are resisted because those things help "too many of the wrong people" in some people's estimation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, Fez said: Probably nothing, so long as there's folks talking about Michelle Obama running in 4 years. Is this Trump's plan for getting a second term? Here's another amusing outcome of the election. Sometime in the summer, Trump made some comments about Crimea. In the US, this was barely mentioned (and even then only to tie Trump to Putin), but it made a huge stir in Ukraine. The result was that prior to the election, high level Ukrainian officials (who obviously thought that he was going to lose) openly criticized him as a marginal clown and various other rude things... right up the point until he won. They're currently in a frenzied effort to scrub all instances of this from social media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 23 minutes ago, Sullen said: Blame wide-spread partisanery and the broken two-party American system for that. Representational democracy works over here in Canada because people actually have the guts to support new parties even if it means they won't win the elections, all that matters is that their views are properly represented. Just look at the Bloc for the quintessential example. Look at the Greens, or look at the NDP for most of it's existence. Sometimes, having your view properly represented is more important than having your party be the winning one, that's a mentality Americans are simply unwilling to embrace. EDIT: No such bullshit rule such as "Winner takes all the province" either. Preach it. I hate FPTP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, Altherion said: Is this Trump's plan for getting a second term? Michelle Obama will have more people enthusiastically support her and fewer people enthusiastically dislike her then Hillary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Day 1 of Trump: https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656 Didn't have the heart to read through more than a few...assaults, epithets, graffiti, threats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Michelle Obama is better at rousing speeches than Barrack is. She's a light up the room person, Hillary just isn't that. That's not really an indication of how great a President she would be but it would certainly get more votes than Hillary. I'd vote for her, it's safe to assume certain positions she would have based on Barry's politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Mexal said: Stories of post election hate that are cropping up across the country. Time for Trump to unite... It just keeps getting worse. The stories are pouring in to Shaun King and they are killing me. Hate this so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 https://mobile.twitter.com/pwthornton/status/796355506759671808?s=04 This was interesting I think, in some ways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said: https://mobile.twitter.com/pwthornton/status/796355506759671808?s=04 This was interesting I think, in some ways... Interesting in the sense that it doubles down on the condescension, I guess. Poor white people in rural areas need to take more vacations in the city? Really? That's this guys solution? If that doesn't qualify as effectively making the opposite point from the one you are trying to make, I don't know what does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guess who's back Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 From that to this What the fuck is wrong with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariadne23 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 33 minutes ago, Fez said: I don't know if I said it last week, but I have said it in the past and I still believe it. Electoral victory papered things over for now, but the ethno-nationalist, big government vision that Trump supporters bought into is very different from Republican orthodoxy. It won't matter for as long as Trump's at least relatively popular in the party, but if those approval ratings fall or there's a Democrat in the White House again in 4 or 8 years; that's all going to come out again. Likewise, if Trump is the latest in a long line of Republican leaders to betray the evangelicals, which I think there's a solid chance of, that may finally be the straw that breaks that alliance. I expect this shit to hit the fan sooner rather than later. I'm going to guess that with the infrastructure priorities, Trump will ultimately be less popular with Ryan and McConnell than with us, even. There are signs, I think, that a lot of what this guy was saying was just red meat bullshit for the working class base he wanted to turn out, but I think those voters will like him anyway if things in the country start looking better. And in the short term, maybe they do. This kind of terrifies me because he's still a narcissistic, grudge-nurturing megalomaniac asshole. But I guess other Trump scenarios could be worse. What do you all think? Obama seemed like he met a person other than who he expected to meet, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 3 hours ago, Commodore said: Trump is awful but the left is crying wolf like this is the end of days. Rioting/protest from millennial snowflakes that have no memory before Obama and have never had their guy lose. He's just an American Berlusconi Want to get back to this too. What would it take for you to believe otherwise? What actions could a president and government take that would make you think that this is a bit more than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariadne23 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said: https://mobile.twitter.com/pwthornton/status/796355506759671808?s=04 This was interesting I think, in some ways... I kind of agree with that, but I think what rural people understand about coastal people is that those people look down on them, and this is, for the most part, true. And insofar as rural America wants to blame its recession problems on immigrants, Muslims, and minorities, I don't see how that can change, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerHaHa Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Notice how every single post in that twitter post was either words or alleged actions - the only actual video proof of violence was a swarm of African American's attacking an elderly white man. Deeds, not words. In my very conservative and male industry, I get constant verbal assaults, often right to my face for being out, but again, sticks and stones. Actual violent acts, especially against the elderly...how frequently are we going to see a group of 15 white people attacking an elderly African American for voting Clinton? That's reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 10 minutes ago, Swordfish said: Interesting in the sense that it doubles down on the condescension, I guess. Poor white people in rural areas need to take more vacations in the city? Really? That's this guys solution? If that doesn't qualify as effectively making the opposite point from the one you are trying to make, I don't know what does. Huh? His perspective is perfectly legitimate and largely accurate. Is it the same for everyone? No. But given what's happening in this country right now, the people who are preaching intolerance and hate are also the same people who rarely spend any time with the minorities they're hating on. Ignorance exists, whether willful or circumstantial. Ignoring that this is an issue is a major problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 11 minutes ago, Guess who's back said: From that to this What the fuck is wrong with him? Those are the same vids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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