US Elections: Groper in Chief

[LongRider]

1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said:

The theory is that it will lower insurance prices as it will increase competition. But, even if that were true, in the real world, it doesn't solve the adverse selection problem.

Ah, that old 'increased competition will magically reduce prices' chestnut.  Should have known.  Health insurance is so complex I just don't see a simple solution.  Buying across state lines and health savings accounts don't cut it.

I see Week's post, look like another article to read.  Thanks!

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/nov/12/we-are-witnessing-the-politics-of-humiliation-siri-hustvedt-joyce-carol-oates-and-more-on-the-us-election

 

Quote

The idea of Clinton being “unlikable” has always been a code, a way of papering over and personalising a deep distrust of ambitious, powerful women that extends much further than uneducated, disenfranchised men, which we expect, to women, which we don’t.

Until the left starts facing facts about WHY Clinton won it won't start sorting its house out, and it really needs sorting.

[OldGimletEye]

9 minutes ago, Week said:

Seemed like a real policy proposal from the Trump...it is not.

Trump and real policy proposals are like Fire and Ice.

[DunderMifflin]

20 minutes ago, DraculaAD1972 said:

Except the rape charge was withdrawn -and Trump got more votes from African-Americans and Latinos than the previous two republican candidates. Hillary lost because many African-American and Latino voters saw through her facade. Something many Hillary voters were unable to do. Perhaps the black vote heard how Hillary's mentor was a Klansman and decided that Trump was actually the least racist of the two. Or more likely saw her as a white privileged puppet of wall street, Saudi Arabia and god knows who else.

I think most were highly offended at being BLATANTLY treated like pawns to get someone elected.

I mean they saw 8 years of a black president not accomplish much. But then Hillary is supposed to do something?

I don't think much will ever get accomplished by way of politics under our current power structure in terms of racism. Democrats, Republicans, it's all going to be financed by white money and ultimately cater to white interests no matter how much Democrats try to pretend otherwise.

 

Malcolm X called this bullshit out way back in '63....

"The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man."

"The white liberals aren't white people who are for independence, who are moral and ethical in their thinking. They are just a faction of white people that are jockeying for power. The same as the white conservative is a faction of white people that are jockeying for power. They are fighting each other for power and prestige, and the one that is the football in the game is the Negro, 20 million black people. A political football, a political pawn, an economic football, and economic pawn. A social football, a social pawn. The liberal elements of whites are those who have perfected the art of selling themselves to the Negro as a friend of the Negro. Getting the sympathy of the Negro, getting the allegiance of the Negro, and getting the mind of the Negro. Then the Negro sides with the white liberal, and the white liberals use the Negro against the white conservative. So anything that the Negro does is never for his own good, never for his own progress, he's only a pawn in the hands of the white liberal."
                            -Malcolm X

[drawkcabi]

1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said:

Trump and real policy proposals are like Fire and Ice.

Don't you mean Ice and Fire?  

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/nov/12/we-are-witnessing-the-politics-of-humiliation-siri-hustvedt-joyce-carol-oates-and-more-on-the-us-election

 

Until the left starts facing facts about WHY Clinton won it won't start sorting its house out, and it really needs sorting.

I don't know that I buy the closet mysogeny argument.  I know too many strong women from both sides of the aisle who strongly dislike Sec. Clinton to buy that it is purely mysogeny.

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, drawkcabi said:

Don't you mean Ice and Fire?  

Yeah, you're right. I fucked up slightly.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I don't know that I buy the closet mysogeny argument.  I know too many strong women from both sides of the aisle who strongly dislike Sec. Clinton to buy that it is purely mysogeny.

Neither do I. But I keep seeing articles and people posting, looking at reasons why Clinton lost, most of which miss the point completely. It has very little to do with misogyny.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

5 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

I mean they saw 8 years of a black president not accomplish much. But then Hillary is supposed to do something?

 Versus what Trump is going to do to you? 

 

Perspective. Get some.

[Altherion]

Regarding schadenfreude: I am really conflicted about this. On the one hand, these are fellow human beings and even if we cannot understand why they are so upset, we should feel some sympathy for them. But on the other hand, I challenge anyone who did not support Clinton to read this Lena Dunham piece without smiling. I could understand it if this was a college student, but she is very nearly my age and should really know better. How can one find sympathy for people who have no empathy, at least not for those who disagree with them? I naturally feel it for some people on these boards even though we disagree, but with articles like that, I just can't.

[Castel]

 

20 minutes ago, Altherion said:

Regarding schadenfreude: I am really conflicted about this. On the one hand, these are fellow human beings and even if we cannot understand why they are so upset, we should feel some sympathy for them. But on the other hand, I challenge anyone who did not support Clinton to read this Lena Dunham piece without smiling. I could understand it if this was a college student, but she is very nearly my age and should really know better. How can one find sympathy for people who have no empathy, at least not for those who disagree with them? I naturally feel it for some people on these boards even though we disagree, but with articles like that, I just can't.

Even many people who were Democrats or pulled for Clinton don't like Lena Dunham. She's a weirdo. The almost perfect mold of the stereotypical liberal weirdo in fact.

That said, it wasn't as bad as I imagined and it's kind of amusing that we also now have to ignore her comments on receiving abuse in order to mock her for lacking empathy. 

[OldGimletEye]

3 hours ago, DunderMifflin said:

I just get a bad reaction when people try to throw racism at the feet of the South. Or even poor white people in general. Maybe thats not what you were trying to do there but idk, I still felt like I needed to put it in some context.

The only reason you attempted to put into "context" is because you missed the main point I was trying to make.

[DunderMifflin]

9 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said:

The only reason you attempted to put into "context" is because you missed the main point I was trying to make.

I apologize for missing your point. My mistake.

[TheKitttenGuard]

22 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/nov/12/we-are-witnessing-the-politics-of-humiliation-siri-hustvedt-joyce-carol-oates-and-more-on-the-us-election

 

Until the left starts facing facts about WHY Clinton won it won't start sorting its house out, and it really needs sorting.

There are plenty of policy based reason for opposing Hillary.

There have also been a decades long campaign that she is a devil incarnated.

I also have my sister who voted for Trump with statement of Hillary that were straight misogyny. Though her reasons are primarily low taxes and works out from there.

[LongRider]

4 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

Now you bring up institutional racism in the criminal justice system. Hey that’s fine with me. And in fact it’s something that needs to be addressed because it does affect African Americans negatively. In fact, it impacts everyone negatively because the institutional racism in the justice system lowers African American productivity and output and that harms everyone.

from that previous conversation.

Trump has said he want's 'law and order' which is a dog whistle for 'locking up the scary black men and throwing away the key'.

And if I may say so, it's pure bullshit.

[Week]

12 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

I also have my sister who voted for Trump with statement of Hillary that were straight misogyny. Though her reasons are primarily low taxes and works out from there.

I look forward to her reaction at the impact of the next tax reform bill that the GOP passes. Is she more concerned about the top tax bracket rate or removal of the estate tax?

[Liffguard]

30 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I don't know that I buy the closet mysogeny argument.  I know too many strong women from both sides of the aisle who strongly dislike Sec. Clinton to buy that it is purely mysogeny.

It's not purely anything. But I think it's definitely true that Clinton is held to a higher standard than most of her male colleagues. I'm not American, so I don't know what the actual experience has been like in America, but I don't understand the amount of hate she draws. It baffles me. She's fine. Not a leader that I'd follow into the teeth of hell. But perfectly acceptable. If she were running for office over here in the UK she'd be totally unremarkable. Private email server? Really, that's what everyone's in such a tizzy about? Either the average American voter is way more into infosec than I would have guessed (not to mention that it's hardly a mistake unique to Clinton herself) or there's some other factor at work here.

[TheKitttenGuard]

Just now, Week said:

I look forward to her reaction at the impact of the next tax reform bill that the GOP passes. Is she more concerned about the top tax bracket rate or removal of the estate tax?

The taxes she face in some are more regressive based and those can be supported by Liberals as Sin Tax with it's morale judgement.  She can no longer attempt NJ since to hike up the gas tax by $.26 cents one good.  Philadelphia has its 2% sales tax on top of state's 7%.

Liberal and Leftists have a reputation of not caring how effective the taxes are taken are done and how to get them.  They look to get more and not care how make more with that they have.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

9 minutes ago, Liffguard said:

It's not purely anything. But I think it's definitely true that Clinton is held to a higher standard than most of her male colleagues. I'm not American, so I don't know what the actual experience has been like in America, but I don't understand the amount of hate she draws. It baffles me. She's fine. Not a leader that I'd follow into the teeth of hell. But perfectly acceptable. If she were running for office over here in the UK she'd be totally unremarkable. Private email server? Really, that's what everyone's in such a tizzy about? Either the average American voter is way more into infosec than I would have guessed (not to mention that it's hardly a mistake unique to Clinton herself) or there's some other factor at work here.

Really? I'm sorry I disagree. She's got 20 years of history in the political game and been involved in a number of shady incidents. Couple that with an extreme lack of charisma and there is your problem

 

[Silverstar]

7 minutes ago, Liffguard said:

It's not purely anything. But I think it's definitely true that Clinton is held to a higher standard than most of her male colleagues. I'm not American, so I don't know what the actual experience has been like in America, but I don't understand the amount of hate she draws. It baffles me. She's fine. Not a leader that I'd follow into the teeth of hell. But perfectly acceptable. If she were running for office over here in the UK she'd be totally unremarkable. Private email server? Really, that's what everyone's in such a tizzy about? Either the average American voter is way more into infosec than I would have guessed (not to mention that it's hardly a mistake unique to Clinton herself) or there's some other factor at work here.

 

7 minutes ago, Liffguard said:

It's not purely anything. But I think it's definitely true that Clinton is held to a higher standard than most of her male colleagues. I'm not American, so I don't know what the actual experience has been like in America, but I don't understand the amount of hate she draws. It baffles me. She's fine. Not a leader that I'd follow into the teeth of hell. But perfectly acceptable. If she were running for office over here in the UK she'd be totally unremarkable. Private email server? Really, that's what everyone's in such a tizzy about? Either the average American voter is way more into infosec than I would have guessed (not to mention that it's hardly a mistake unique to Clinton herself) or there's some other factor at work here.

As a fellow Brit, I agree. I don't really get the hatred. I don't really get the unlikeability charges either. She seems no less likeable than any other US politician I've seen much of. Certainly no less likeable than either Trump or Bernie. 

Maybe it's partly a cultural thing to some extent - maybe she'd do far better here in the UK - though I certainly know some people here in the UK who dislike her, but following the elections this time around, the whole thing has utterly bemused me. I really don't get it.