The case for Arya becoming a queen in her endgame

[Arya-Jon]

21 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

*squealing* I'm so glad you're posting regularly again. I feel like I just ate a bunch of rainbows after reading your replies and all your great metas. Now if only ashotofjac (TyrionTLannister is such a great new addition offering great debates!) if she would join this forum as well....   She just did a great Jon/Rhaegar analysis. 

Oh man this is heady praise

. I just hope it happens lol  You can always send an ask to her on tumblr praising her or asking her to join  

My exams.thesis are coming up so i doubt I would be active for long. 

[Philokles]

I think it is much more likely that Arya becomes Queen of the North than of the entire seven kingdoms. She is associated with the North and longs to return there to a greater extent than any of the other characters, so it would seem out of place if that is not where she ended up as Queen.

Is there anything in the books themselves about Arya wanting to explore to the West of Westeros? Because sailing the Sunset Sea is one of the few potential futures Arya does not follow up on in the conversation with Ned.

[a black swan]

7 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

I think it is much more likely that Arya becomes Queen of the North than of the entire seven kingdoms. She is associated with the North and longs to return there to a greater extent than any of the other characters, so it would seem out of place if that is not where she ended up as Queen.

Is there anything in the books themselves about Arya wanting to explore to the West of Westeros? Because sailing the Sunset Sea is one of the few potential futures Arya does not follow up on in the conversation with Ned.

The old Gods name Arya the Daughter of the North and they answer her prayers. She has passed Northern Justice while on a completely different continent. She smells the candles in the HoBW and the Kindly Man asks her what she smells? She thinks Winterfell. The detail Arya goes into... it breaks my heart that she is so far from home. 

That frosty crown Jon sees... 

 

 

[a black swan]

20 minutes ago, Arya-Jon said:

Oh man this is heady praise

. I just hope it happens lol  You can always send an ask to her on tumblr praising her or asking her to join  

My exams.thesis are coming up so i doubt I would be active for long. 

Yup I will message her! 

Good luck with your exams/thesis. I hope you rock it!

I hope it happens too. I just feel secure in the knowledge that George is one of Arya's biggest fans. The ending he is heading towards is coming to head and he is enjoying the writing so much more. 

You know with the outline thing...if you were in his shoes, wouldn't you do everything you can to play it down as well? His endgame pre-dates the outline and he said as recently as this year that he is keeping that ending. Different roads leading to the same castle afterall. 

[TyrionTLannister]

 

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But I do agree that what you are saying makes sense too. All their mothers dying. Maybe its applicable to only dragon riding? Or maybe secret targaryen heritage? Or maybe all three deaths were important for plot purposes and were just co incidence. Mother dying is very important to how Tywin treats him and shapes his arc. Like not all deaths  happened among salt and smoke. Only Jon's happened in violence. Dany's in sea shore. And Jon's mother died from a fever and not immediately childbirth like Tyrion's did. 

Yes, but it doesn't have to be an exact fit. There's no way these parallels are just coincidence. There are many more where that came from. The manner of their births are like the 3 attempts Azor Ahai makes to forge Lightbringer. Dany was born in a storm (water), Tyrion's mother was a lion, and Lyanna, Rhaegar's love, died giving birth to Jon (Azor Ahai killing Nissa Nissa to finally forge Lightbringer). 

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 Btw, have you noticed that the last two letters and exactly the last two letters  of all three names match As in Jon-Aegon, Arya-Visenya, Daenerys-Rhaenys

That's pretty cool. I think it points more to Jon marrying both of them than it does to them being the three heads of the dragon, though.

[Arya-Jon]

8 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

 

Yes, but it doesn't have to be an exact fit. There's no way these parallels are just coincidence. There are many more where that came from. The manner of their births are like the 3 attempts Azor Ahai makes to forge Lightbringer. Dany was born in a storm (water), Tyrion's mother was a lion, and Lyanna, Rhaegar's love, died giving birth to Jon (Azor Ahai killing Nissa Nissa to finally forge Lightbringer). 

That's pretty cool. I think it points more to Jon marrying both of them than it does to them being the three heads of the dragon, though.

You may be right. But I cant see Dany parting with her dragons to anyone willingly  Dragons are power made flesh. And it is exactly what makes her special. Would she willingly trust Tyrion to ride it? She knows he is a lannister. Isnt it too risky.People foolow her because of her dragons. Once that is gone, she is in deep trouble. I just think that Tyrion will come to love Viserion/or Dany. And then betray her for love. I can see her allowing her husband to ride it if she completely trusts him. But any one else? She loses her special thing completely and people obviously lust for her dragons. 

I am sorry I may give a reply much later (in case you respond) . Hope you dont mind

Thanks a lot for your wishes @DutchArya

 

[TyrionTLannister]

 

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You may be right. But I cant see Dany parting with her dragons to anyone willingly  Dragons are power made flesh. And it is exactly what makes her special. Would she willingly trust Tyrion to ride it? She knows he is a lannister. Isnt it too risky.People foolow her because of her dragons. Once that is gone, she is in deep trouble. I just think that Tyrion will come to love Viserion/or Dany. And then betray her for love. I can see her allowing her husband to ride it if she completely trusts him. But any one else? She loses her special thing completely and people obviously lust for her dragons. 

Tyrion can earn her trust in many ways. He can't betray her if she never trusted him in the first place. Anyway, the three heads of the dragon aren't necessarily dragonriders. Dany, Jon, and Tyrion may only work together to achieve their ends. 

[Dolorous22]

Queen of what though?

Westeros, The North, Winter, love and beauty....thorns? 

It's possible for her to ascend. I mean, she's not in Westeros in a time when lords and ladies are dropping like flies. Any returning noblemen or women should find less competition for places of esteem. Right now, she's preoccupied with revenge and we know what happens to those characters...... 

[WolfQueenArya]

2 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Holy damn. Ned's words making more and more sense. I always wondered about the princes part. This explains it! 

The other stuff Arya mentioned to Ned about her future and wanting to build castles and becoming a King’s Councillor? 

George has amother Queen to draw inspiration from in Arya's story:

GOOD QUEEN ALYSANNE TARGARYEN 

- Alysanne wasn’t raised with the expectation that she would be Queen.

- Alysanne was the youngest living daughter of King Aenys I Targaryen. 

- Alysanne was 12 years old when her brother became king. Arya will turn 12 in Winds of Winter, when Jon becomes KiTN

- Alysanne was a dragonrider who loved to fly. *Arya also has a bond with a mythical beast in her Direwolf, one that she can warg. Arya also expresses a desire to fly several times. She says she wants to turn into a wolf with wings

- Alysanne is a keen archer and hunter. Very “tomboy” and unlady-like activities. 

- Queen Alysanne enjoyed physical activity (a quality that would have appealed to her brother Jaehaerys, who was reputed to be a fine rider as well as a skilled archer and horseman). They spent many years growing up together before Jaehaerys became King. Alysanne’s older sister already married off several times in violent and political marriages.

- Alysanne married her brother Jaehaerys and became Queen. She was also the  King’s most trusted Counsellor.

 

LOVE FOR THE SMALLFOLK

- Alysanne was loved by the smallfolk. She lived amongst them even after becoming Queen. Sounds familiar?

- Queen Alysanne planned and funded the building of a Castle called Deep Lake. She had Queensgate named in her honor. Arya wants to build Castles

- Alysanne was a fierce believer in woman’s rights and actively changed societies standards. “Alysanne saw no reason why a man should be favored over a woman”. Which is something Arya strongly believes in and has even told Jon directly. Alysanne went on to say, "...if Jaehaerys thought women of less use, then he would have no need of her." They later reconciled. 

Wow. I like this. And with Arya knowing the secret passages under the red keep, that might come in handy. I just think she will be queen of the north because she has always been associated with the north and Winterfell. There's so many parallels to different queens with Arya that it definitely can't be a coincidence.

 

[LordImp]

2 hours ago, TyrionTLannister said:

 

Yes, but it doesn't have to be an exact fit. There's no way these parallels are just coincidence. There are many more where that came from. The manner of their births are like the 3 attempts Azor Ahai makes to forge Lightbringer. Dany was born in a storm (water), Tyrion's mother was a lion, and Lyanna, Rhaegar's love, died giving birth to Jon (Azor Ahai killing Nissa Nissa to finally forge Lightbringer). 

That's pretty cool. I think it points more to Jon marrying both of them than it does to them being the three heads of the dragon, though.

The three forgings of Lightbringer and the birth of Dany , Tyrion and Jon does make sense . Though i think there will be more than one AA and more than one Lightbringer . 

[Wrl6199]

Just now, LordImp said:

The three forgings of Lightbringer and the birth of Dany , Tyrion and Jon does make sense . Though i think there will be more than one AA and more than one Lightbringer . 

Yeah i agree.

[a black swan]

1 hour ago, LordImp said:

The three forgings of Lightbringer and the birth of Dany , Tyrion and Jon does make sense . Though i think there will be more than one AA and more than one Lightbringer . 

Interesting. 

Have you read @chrisdaw theories surrounding Aa/PtwP/LH? I wonder if he compiled them somewhere in one place? You can tell a lot of effort and thought went into them. 

He had a very interesting case for Arya's role in the coming War:

Old Nan's champion The Last Hero

Arya is the Last Hero, and Sandor is her/his dog. The whole thing is about Arya, with Sandor.

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"Now these were the days before the Andals came, and long before the women fled across the narrow sea from the cities of the Rhoyne, and the hundred kingdoms of those times were the kingdoms of the First Men, who had taken these lands from the children of the forest. Yet here and there in the fastness of the woods the children still lived in their wooden cities and hollow hills, and the faces in the trees kept watch. So as cold and death filled the earth, the last hero determined to seek out the children, in the hopes that their ancient magics could win back what the armies of men had lost. He set out into the dead lands with a sword, a horse, a dog, and a dozen companions. For years he searched, until he despaired of ever finding the children of the forest in their secret cities. One by one his friends died, and his horse, and finally even his dog, and his sword froze so hard the blade snapped when he tried to use it. And the Others smelled the hot blood in him, and came silent on his trail, stalking him with packs of pale white spiders big as hounds—"

The door opened with a bang, and Bran's heart leapt up into his mouth in sudden fear, but it was only Maester Luwin, with Hodor looming in the stairway behind him. "Hodor!" the stableboy announced, as was his custom, smiling hugely at them all.

First bold is referencing Nymeria, obvious Arya connection and a parallel. It also puts a time frame to things. Eventually the narrow sea will run dry and Arya will lead the realm of men (or convince them) into the dried out seabed, as Nymeria lead her people to the sea to eventual salvation.

What she's doing, she's doing on Bran's orders. His whispers. She's going for a magical purpose related to the COTF.

Needle, whatever palfrey, Sandor and whoever else. (Sam will be one)

Everyone dies, including her dog, Sandor. Note the emphasis on the dog. And the horse, dead. Needle snapping.

Note hounds, then to huge smiling Hodor. We all know how Hodor is going down.

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"Well," said Yoren, "maybe he will and maybe he won't. Good men have gone into those woods before, and never come out."

All Bran could think of was Old Nan's story of the Others and the last hero, hounded through the white woods by dead men and spiders big as hounds. He was afraid for a moment, until he remembered how that story ended. "The children will help him," he blurted, "the children of the forest!"

Hounded, hounds. Sandor is going to die, then he's going to become a wight, and hound her. But she'll make it, and the COTF will 'help her'. The magics that will win back what the armies of men have lost. Maybe, the help is that they can turn Sandor back, and everyone like him.

Mel's vision of a girl on a dying horse heading North being hunted. 

The vision is of Arya and of her journey as foreshadowed by the Last Hero. They are the same thing. Jon looses Mance to find her on this occasion, I think that is foreshadowing for him loosing Sandor to go find/save her when he discovers she's left and for where.

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"If your stiff-necked lord commander will allow it. Did your fires show you where to find this girl?"

"I saw water. Deep and blue and still, with a thin coat of ice just forming on it. It seemed to go on and on forever."

"Long Lake. What else did you see around this girl?"

"Hills. Fields. Trees. A deer, once. Stones. She is staying well away from villages. When she can she rides along the bed of little streams, to throw hunters off her trail."

He frowned. "That will make it difficult. She was coming north, you said. Was the lake to her east or to her west?"

Melisandre closed her eyes, remembering. "West."

Arya travelling with the Hound after the Red Wedding: 

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So she stayed with the Hound.

They rode every day, never sleeping twice in the same place, avoiding towns and villages and castles as best they could.

[...]

Besides, it wasn't safe to be seen. From time to time columns of horsemen passed down the winding farm roads, the twin towers of Frey flying before them. "Hunting for stray northmen," the Hound said when they had passed. "Any time you hear hooves, get your head down fast, it's not like to be a friend."

Arya did the same earlier on when leading Gendry and Hotpie after escaping Harrenhal. 

A solo mission, a solo song for an Arya. 

 

 

 

[a black swan]

~dp~

[Greywater-Watch]

4 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

Is there anything in the books themselves about Arya wanting to explore to the West of Westeros?

I may be wrong, but I believe that is from the show and not the book.

[LordImp]

1 hour ago, DutchArya said:

Interesting. 

Have you read @chrisdaw theories surrounding Aa/PtwP/LH? I wonder if he compiled them somewhere in one place? You can tell a lot of effort and thought went into them. 

He had a very interesting case for Arya's role in the coming War:

Old Nan's champion The Last Hero

Arya is the Last Hero, and Sandor is her/his dog. The whole thing is about Arya, with Sandor.

First bold is referencing Nymeria, obvious Arya connection and a parallel. It also puts a time frame to things. Eventually the narrow sea will run dry and Arya will lead the realm of men (or convince them) into the dried out seabed, as Nymeria lead her people to the sea to eventual salvation.

What she's doing, she's doing on Bran's orders. His whispers. She's going for a magical purpose related to the COTF.

Needle, whatever palfrey, Sandor and whoever else. (Sam will be one)

Everyone dies, including her dog, Sandor. Note the emphasis on the dog. And the horse, dead. Needle snapping.

Note hounds, then to huge smiling Hodor. We all know how Hodor is going down.

Hounded, hounds. Sandor is going to die, then he's going to become a wight, and hound her. But she'll make it, and the COTF will 'help her'. The magics that will win back what the armies of men have lost. Maybe, the help is that they can turn Sandor back, and everyone like him.

Mel's vision of a girl on a dying horse heading North being hunted. 

The vision is of Arya and of her journey as foreshadowed by the Last Hero. They are the same thing. Jon looses Mance to find her on this occasion, I think that is foreshadowing for him loosing Sandor to go find/save her when he discovers she's left and for where.

Arya travelling with the Hound after the Red Wedding: 

Arya did the same earlier on when leading Gendry and Hotpie after escaping Harrenhal. 

A solo mission, a solo song for an Arya. 

 

 

 

He has interesting ideas , but i find them extreme and unlikely. 

About the last hero , i think Bran has allready fufilled the role of TLH. He went North with companions , a horse ( Hodor) and a dog ( Summer) . And he did find the COTF. 

[Stubby]

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