FrozenHonors

Consolidation of Doom of Valyria

19 posts in this topic

  • We know that
    • Doom of Valyria = volcanic eruptions from The Fourteen Flames (14 volcanoes)
    • The valyrians used slaves to mine metals from the volcanoes
    • The Faceless Men claim to have brought the Doom of Valyria
    • The Doom of Valyria was caused "because the mages who controlled The Fourteen Flames died"

 

I think that the Faceless Men killed the mages who controlled the 14 volcanoes. The mages needed to control the volcanoes, because they were de-stabilized cuz the slaves mined too deep. When the FM killed the mages, the 14 volcanoes erupted, causing the Doom. THAT is why the FM "brought about the Doom".

 

I've always wondered how the hell assassins could cause volcanoes to erupt. now we know.

 

CONSOLIDATION!!! (ps i had to read 4 threads on the Doom of valyria and no one made this connection. there were like 100 tabs of comments...)

Edited by FrozenHonors

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16 hours ago, FrozenHonors said:
  • We know that
    • Doom of Valyria = volcanic eruptions from The Fourteen Flames (14 volcanoes)
    • The valyrians used slaves to mine metals from the volcanoes
    • The Faceless Men claim to have brought the Doom of Valyria
    • The Doom of Valyria was caused "because the mages who controlled The Fourteen Flames died"

I think that the Faceless Men killed the mages who controlled the 14 volcanoes. The mages needed to control the volcanoes, because they were de-stabilized cuz the slaves mined too deep. When the FM killed the mages, the 14 volcanoes erupted, causing the Doom. THAT is why the FM "brought about the Doom".

I've always wondered how the hell assassins could cause volcanoes to erupt. now we know.

CONSOLIDATION!!! (ps i had to read 4 threads on the Doom of valyria and no one made this connection. there were like 100 tabs of comments...)

that would be the most logical supposition. We will probably never be told the whole story 

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There's actually even more to it than that.  There is also the prophecy that gold from Casterly Rock would bring about the doom, and that the 40 families were rivals who hired assassins to kill members of rival families.  So it seems that the gold the Lannisters used to buy brightroar was paid to the FM to kill a rival families mage, and that was the last mage death that caused the doom.

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I've recently considered that what if Daenys the Dreamer's precognitive visions were in fact not supernatural in origin, but based on facts known to her or her father. That would mean that it wasn't prophecy that brought the Targaryens to Dragonstone and away from the Doom, but actual pre-knowledge. The fact that we don't know of any conflicts between the Braavosi and Targaryens just gets me suspcious. They seem like natural enemies, the Targaryens being valyrians and also actively dominating the Narrow Sea. Of course, the fact that we don't know of any conflicts doesn't mean there were none. I don't know ; it is just a wacky idea, but somehow could fit GRRM's style, I guess.

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On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 3:27 AM, FrozenHonors said:
  • We know that
    • Doom of Valyria = volcanic eruptions from The Fourteen Flames (14 volcanoes)
    • The valyrians used slaves to mine metals from the volcanoes
    • The Faceless Men claim to have brought the Doom of Valyria
    • The Doom of Valyria was caused "because the mages who controlled The Fourteen Flames died"

 

I think that the Faceless Men killed the mages who controlled the 14 volcanoes. The mages needed to control the volcanoes, because they were de-stabilized cuz the slaves mined too deep. When the FM killed the mages, the 14 volcanoes erupted, causing the Doom. THAT is why the FM "brought about the Doom".

 

I've always wondered how the hell assassins could cause volcanoes to erupt. now we know.

 

CONSOLIDATION!!! (ps i had to read 4 threads on the Doom of valyria and no one made this connection. there were like 100 tabs of comments...)

It was more than just eruptions, though. The land split open, the seas rose up... Sounds an awful lot like what the CotF supposedly did to the land bridge that is now the Stepstones, and perhaps whatever happened in Hardhome.

I suspect a grand conspiracy was at work against the Valyrians: the FM, the CotF, the Maesters, the shadowbinders and warlocks, virtually anyone whose power was threatened by dragons. It's the real Game of Power that these timeless institutions are playing while silly humans are fighting over thrones.

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On 15.11.2016 at 3:32 AM, John Suburbs said:

It was more than just eruptions, though. The land split open, the seas rose up... Sounds an awful lot like what the CotF supposedly did to the land bridge that is now the Stepstones, and perhaps whatever happened in Hardhome.

I suspect a grand conspiracy was at work against the Valyrians: the FM, the CotF, the Maesters, the shadowbinders and warlocks, virtually anyone whose power was threatened by dragons. It's the real Game of Power that these timeless institutions are playing while silly humans are fighting over thrones.

Care to elaborate why the COTF, the shadowbinders and the warlocks are supposedly anti-dragon?

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3 hours ago, Bironic said:

Care to elaborate why the COTF, the shadowbinders and the warlocks are supposedly anti-dragon?

Virtually everybody is anti-dragon, except those who control them. Dragons are the ultimate super weapon, and if history is any guide, every time humans gain control of dragons the end result is bad for humans; Valyria, the shadowlands...

The children, of course, worship trees, which don't stand up very well against dragonfire. I can't say conclusively that weirwoods burn, but even if they don't, the children have no reason to welcome creatures that can torch their woodlands.

The binders and warlocks would have no love for dragons, either. While they do seem to get a bump in their own magical abilities with dragons in the world, ultimately they represent a superior magical force, so they must be opposed. Look what happened to the "undying" in the HoBaW.

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18 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Virtually everybody is anti-dragon, except those who control them. Dragons are the ultimate super weapon, and if history is any guide, every time humans gain control of dragons the end result is bad for humans; Valyria, the shadowlands...

The children, of course, worship trees, which don't stand up very well against dragonfire. I can't say conclusively that weirwoods burn, but even if they don't, the children have no reason to welcome creatures that can torch their woodlands.

The binders and warlocks would have no love for dragons, either. While they do seem to get a bump in their own magical abilities with dragons in the world, ultimately they represent a superior magical force, so they must be opposed. Look what happened to the "undying" in the HoBaW.

If Dragons are the ultimate super weapon wouldn't the goal of most people be that they get their hands on dragons too? That's what happened in our world with WMD's.

And Euron, Victarion, Astapori Slave masters, Xharo Xoan Daxos, Moqorro & red priests, Warlocks, Marwyn, Tyrion, Aemon Targaryen, Melisandre, Stannis, Ben Plumm, they all seem to want dragons too.

Weirwood does burn I think since Melisandre burned the godswood of Stormsend, it doesn't rot though, and weirwood arrows might be dangerous to Dragons. If wild dragons really lived in ancient times, they must have gotten along with COTF though I suppose. And we never hear that COTF somehow opposed Targs/valyrians or dragons.

I thought that the Undying tried to take over the power of Dany and her dragons, to their own ends. Quaithe & shadowbinders might have similar goals.

 

 

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It was definitely more than some volcanic eruptions.  Morreqo tells Tyrion that 14 or 14,000 it makes no matter.  It was a tectonic apocalypse.  The tsunami wiped out hundreds of thousands of people on the Isle of Cedars alone...gods only know how many in Valyria and other surrounding lands.  Was it sorcery?  Hard to say.  GRRM has said that the wack seasons are the result of magic (despite the beautiful theories that show how it could be natural), so it stands to reason in universe that magic could very well be the culprit.  Whose magic?  Heh, I doubt we will ever know.

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- Fighting between the valyrian dragonlords 

- Valyrians digging to deep into mines. Ancient powers are awakened. Fire mages are needed to contain the volcanoes. 

- The Faceless men wants to destroy Valyria

- A Lannister wants a valyrian sword

- This Lannister King travels to Valyria and buy a sword from a dragonlord 

- The dragonlord uses the Lannister gold to hire the Faceless men into destroying the other dragonlord families 

- FM sees this as a opportunity to destroy Valyria. They kill the fire mages who contains the 14 flames.

- Without the fire mages all hell breaks loose. Fire wyrms , demons etc breaks loose and destroys Valyria

-  the red priests claim it was R 'Hllor who brought down his fire on Valyria

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On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 9:07 AM, Bironic said:

If Dragons are the ultimate super weapon wouldn't the goal of most people be that they get their hands on dragons too? That's what happened in our world with WMD's.

And Euron, Victarion, Astapori Slave masters, Xharo Xoan Daxos, Moqorro & red priests, Warlocks, Marwyn, Tyrion, Aemon Targaryen, Melisandre, Stannis, Ben Plumm, they all seem to want dragons too.

Weirwood does burn I think since Melisandre burned the godswood of Stormsend, it doesn't rot though, and weirwood arrows might be dangerous to Dragons. If wild dragons really lived in ancient times, they must have gotten along with COTF though I suppose. And we never hear that COTF somehow opposed Targs/valyrians or dragons.

I thought that the Undying tried to take over the power of Dany and her dragons, to their own ends. Quaithe & shadowbinders might have similar goals.

 

 

Yes, everybody wants them, but if you can't get them for yourself the next best thing is to destroy the ones you don't control. And longstanding institutions like shadowbinders, warlocks, maesters, cotf are undoubtedly aware of the fact that even if you do control them, they end up destroying you nonetheless, ie, the shadowlands.

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On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 8:33 PM, Snowmelter said:

It was definitely more than some volcanic eruptions.  Morreqo tells Tyrion that 14 or 14,000 it makes no matter.  It was a tectonic apocalypse.  The tsunami wiped out hundreds of thousands of people on the Isle of Cedars alone...gods only know how many in Valyria and other surrounding lands.  Was it sorcery?  Hard to say.  GRRM has said that the wack seasons are the result of magic (despite the beautiful theories that show how it could be natural), so it stands to reason in universe that magic could very well be the culprit.  Whose magic?  Heh, I doubt we will ever know.

It sounds an awful lot like what happened to the Stepstones, no? That was purportedly carried out by the CotF.

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Yeah, but why would the CoTF care one whit about Valyria?  I like the tale the Kindly Man told Arya in the HoB&W:  suggesting that the FM somehow triggered the Doom.

 

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On 11/17/2016 at 8:07 AM, Bironic said:

If Dragons are the ultimate super weapon wouldn't the goal of most people be that they get their hands on dragons too? That's what happened in our world with WMD's.

And Euron, Victarion, Astapori Slave masters, Xharo Xoan Daxos, Moqorro & red priests, Warlocks, Marwyn, Tyrion, Aemon Targaryen, Melisandre, Stannis, Ben Plumm, they all seem to want dragons too

I thought that the Undying tried to take over the power of Dany and her dragons, to their own ends. Quaithe & shadowbinders might have similar goals.

 

Its one thing to want and have dragons, its a whole nother to control them. And it would seem only the Valyrian bloodlines could do such a thing.... in current times that is.

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The way i sort of see it now in my own head-canon is that the Valyrians dug really deep into the vlcanic Fourteen Flames for resources (gems, metals etc.).
But this digging into active volcanoes would be dangerous work and could result in all maner of bad things if you dig in the wrong place. I believe they used their mages to control the flames, somehow taming them to allow mining etc to happen reasonable safely.
The way i imagine it would be a group of mages who'd have to spend a lot of time using their powers to control the volcanoes, perhaps they were in some sort of trance like state, of a hive mind liking their powers, who knows. Think perhaps of some special "temple" or "shrine" with these mages housed within, devoting all their power and energy to controlling the flames for the good of the Valyrian freehold. Perhaps every great family had to contribute a mage to this, or perhaps the Valyrians swept up mages forcefully to be fed into this system (a sort of "for the greater good" thing).
Anyhow, the FM worked out that killing these mages will bring about the end of the Valyrian slave masters, freeing everyone (either in death or stopping the Valyrians being around to enslave anyone else). So they kill these mages, and the whole thing goes critical and explodes with nothing to control it 
I'm thinking like Starkiller Base type out of control reaction once the mages aren't there to control. The mages were the "thermal oscillator" and once dead the power of the volcanoes was unleashed, plus due to their mining the explosion was much worse that one single eruption.

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On 11/17/2016 at 6:07 AM, Bironic said:

If Dragons are the ultimate super weapon wouldn't the goal of most people be that they get their hands on dragons too?

What would you rather live in, a world where everyone has nukes, or a world where nobody has nukes?

"A world where everyone has them because mutually assured destruction is proven effective as a strong deterrent for war" is a legit answer to this question, but you also have to ask yourself what sort of world you think an old self-described hippie like George RR Martin would rather live in.

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On 11/13/2016 at 1:57 PM, FrozenHonors said:
  • We know that
    • Doom of Valyria = volcanic eruptions from The Fourteen Flames (14 volcanoes)
    • The valyrians used slaves to mine metals from the volcanoes
    • The Faceless Men claim to have brought the Doom of Valyria
    • The Doom of Valyria was caused "because the mages who controlled The Fourteen Flames died"

 

I think that the Faceless Men killed the mages who controlled the 14 volcanoes. The mages needed to control the volcanoes, because they were de-stabilized cuz the slaves mined too deep. When the FM killed the mages, the 14 volcanoes erupted, causing the Doom. THAT is why the FM "brought about the Doom".

 

I've always wondered how the hell assassins could cause volcanoes to erupt. now we know.

 

CONSOLIDATION!!! (ps i had to read 4 threads on the Doom of valyria and no one made this connection. there were like 100 tabs of comments...)

This makes a lot of sense. But the fire mages controlling the flames is just speculation by Westerosi (and probably other) historians. No one knows what went down, because the cataclysm seems to have happened overnight with all 14 volcanoes erupting. The historians think house rivalries may have resulted in the mages being killed and all. FM could have done it too. But the FM worship the Many Faced God and have some type of magic of their own. Their ability to change faces. And we know the FM descend from slaves in the mines. I think the original FM and their death god probably had something to do with the Doom but not in the way we think.  There's also the other stuff about no one being able to go to Valyria. The last dragonlord who flew there mysteriously disappeared. Even non-Valyrians who go there disappear. So there's something magical at play here. Unless, the FM have camped there and are killing people. 

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On 8/30/2017 at 10:43 AM, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

There's also the other stuff about no one being able to go to Valyria. The last dragonlord who flew there mysteriously disappeared. Even non-Valyrians who go there disappear. So there's something magical at play here. Unless, the FM have camped there and are killing people. 

Yet our favorite psychopathic pirate claims to have walked the land and returns with a ship full of muted crew, a chest of priceless gems, gold and Valyrian Steel daggers and knives.   He's got an ornate horn he claims binds dragons and perhaps even a VS suit of armor.   Our boy even claims to have had a dragon egg that he simply threw into the sea.   He returns with a nasty shade of the evening habit and appears to be more mad than when he was sent into exile.  This just gets better and better.

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