US Elections: Never Trust a Man with Orange Eyebrows

[Sivin]

1 minute ago, LongRider said:

I think that there is much that is possible in exposing them, and letting the US and the world know what frauds they are.  Embarrass the shit out of them and let them be proven for the frauds they are.  Think there are protests now?  Have them arrest Hilary and the protests get turned up several notches.

 

But we can't change anything today. They're fools and frauds, but there is literally nothing to be accomplished today and even 2018 is more likely to be harmful than beneficial.

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Sivin said:

But we can't change anything today. They're fools and frauds, but there is literally nothing to be accomplished today and even 2018 is more likely to be harmful than beneficial.

No we can't. But these kind of embarrassment can and do add up.

George Bush isn't remembered as being a bad president for one fuck up. He is remembered as being bad for several and repeated fuck ups.

[LongRider]

5 minutes ago, Sivin said:

But we can't change anything today. They're fools and frauds, but there is literally nothing to be accomplished today and even 2018 is more likely to be harmful than beneficial.

We can't change everything today true, but are you suggesting a form of 'learned helplessness' because that's what it sounds like to me.  2018 can't really be predicted at this time that I can see either.

[OldGimletEye]

As for the dying on a Hill analogy, I think of it more like conservatives entering the Falaise Pocket or maybe Kursk, where the conservatives commanded by Field Marshal Trump are led into a huge fire sack.

[Sivin]

8 minutes ago, LongRider said:

We can't change everything today true, but are you suggesting a form of 'learned helplessness' because that's what it sounds like to me.  2018 can't really be predicted at this time that I can see either.

Unless I am mistaken, only eight Republican seats are up in '18. And I am cautioning only to save strength for when it can be best applied.

1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said:

As for the dying on a Hill analogy, I think of it more like conservatives entering the Faliaise Pocket or maybe Kursk, where the conservatives led by Field Marshal Trump are led into a huge fire sack.

The focus should be tightening around the base of the salient. Let them go as far as they want, but make damn sure that when the time comes we have the strength to cut it off in one blow.

I could be wrong, and since I seem to be arguing alone I suspect that may be the case.

[Jaxom 1974]

3 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well, I'd prefer rationale discourse. But, that doesn't seem to work either.

I don't know what else to do. If somebody just keep insisting that the only legitimate sources of information is Fox News and Breitbart and some meme they read of Facebook,I'm not sure what else there is left.

I'm completely stumped.

And Wikileaks. If it isn't Wikileaks, it isn't legitimate! 

2 hours ago, LongRider said:

So many of them have so internalized that 'liberals' are terrible, not to be trusted traitors that it really doesn't matter what we say.  Sean, Rush and others will nevah, evah, lie to them, but liberals always will.

This. I'm sick to death of trying to have a basic conversation with facts and in depth investigation, but being told I'm a brainwashed lib because I'm not sourcing or believing Wikileaks...

[Castel]

I love how everyone loves Wikileaks on the right all of a sudden

[LongRider]

6 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

This. I'm sick to death of trying to have a basic conversation with facts and in depth investigation, but being told I'm a brainwashed lib because I'm not sourcing or believing Wikileaks...

Indeed.  Then the lies we tell ourselves such as; blacks didn't show up for Hilary instead of, what type of voter suppression and intimidation did POC face in the Rust Belt this time 'round?  'cuz Scott Walker in Wisconsin has been working hard for several years on it, and as Kaish is in Ohio and he's not trustworthy so I would like to some articles in the media about that.  Perhaps Wikileaks will drop a few emails from the Rust Belt governors on us to show us how bad it really was.   

[OldGimletEye]

2 minutes ago, Sivin said:

I could be wrong, and since I seem to be arguing alone I suspect that may be the case.

Perhaps you're right to be a bit cautious here. After all,  we might have to face the full fury of the Trump Herrenvolk  and the Leibstandarte Trump Divisions.

LOL.

[LongRider]

2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Perhaps you're right to be a bit cautious here. After all,  we might have to face the full fury of the Trump Herrenvolk  and the Leibstandarte Trump Divisions.

LOL.

Where is a good old fashioned Sansa Marriage Strike when we need one?

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, LongRider said:

Where is a good old fashioned Sansa Marriage Strike when we need one?

[DunderMifflin]

1 hour ago, LongRider said:

 

 

When you know what you are talking about, come see me.  Inmates don't make the prevailing wage but why should they?  Plus they can quit a job if they don't like it and go back to hanging out in the yards all day if they want 

I know what I'm talking about, not sure what coming to see you means.

Your post reads like a Bill O' Reilly quote.

I disagree that this is the position of morality. I'm not saying that you are claiming it is, others are claiming it for you. Unless you aren't a hillary supporter.

 

[IamMe90]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

No we can't. But these kind of embarrassment can and do add up.

George Bush isn't remembered as being a bad president for one fuck up. He is remembered as being bad for several and repeated fuck ups.

I dunno man, if you ask an average person why Bush was a bad president, I bet "Iraq War" is about the extent of what you're going to get from the majority of them.

[DunderMifflin]

4 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

I dunno man, if you ask an average person why Bush was a bad president, I bet "Iraq War" is about the extent of what you're going to get from the majority of them.

Patriot Act

[The Marquis de Leech]

11 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

I dunno man, if you ask an average person why Bush was a bad president, I bet "Iraq War" is about the extent of what you're going to get from the majority of them.

Hurricane Katrina?

[all swedes are racist]

1 minute ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

Hurricane Katrina?

I heard that was Obama's fault anyway

[LongRider]

23 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

I know what I'm talking about, not sure what coming to see you means.

Your post reads like a Bill O' Reilly quote.

I disagree that this is the position of morality. I'm not saying that you are claiming it is, others are claiming it for you. Unless you aren't a hillary supporter.

 

Wut?  This is the most inchoherent  thing I have ever read on this site. I'm done here. 

[Kalbear]

12 hours ago, MorgulisMaximus said:

Here is the Podesta email:

armstrongmedia.s3.amazonaws.com

armstrongmedia.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Hillary-Pied-...

I was unable to copy the entire link, if you search Google you should be able to reach the email.

Also seach: Clinton's Pied Piper Strategy

 

Yes, it says that they had that as a potential strategy. It doesn't say how they did it or even IF  they did it. Hence the question remains - where is the actual evidence that Clinton and their campaign actually did anything like this?

[karaddin]

Look I don't remotely agree with a certain poster in this thread, but it does no one any favours to dismiss the exploitation of inmates as a source of labor or to act they have a real choice and/or deserve it. Do some reading on how easily it is to get roped into the system in some states due to being too poor to pay a fine and having to work in there to pay off said fine. Oh and then you'll have late payment fees because it took you too long to earn enough to pay it off working in prison and wind up in there again when you can't pay THAT. It's a real class issue and a racial issue and it's fucked.

I'm impressed by the optimism by those who think there is a path back to functioning democracy from this point, every single thing the GOP did to break government and the system just got rewarded and they're only going to entrench things even more. And they'll never be punished by their base, no matter what happens it can be blamed on the Other.

Which is why the whole narrative that it's the lefts fault for calling people bigots, and it's black people's fault for not enough of them voting (not the white people actually voting for Trump) is utter horseshit. But sure, keep telling us the solution is just to be nicer when they spit in our face, and paint the false narrative that you can't disagree with anything without being called a bigot. Political correctness is the real problem here, not the president elect that's already working to shut down the media.

[Kalbear]

7 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Let me rephrase then.

Until someone does that, we will not know. If someone has done that, and the answer supports your position, then you (or anyone else like larry above) can assert that Trump won simply because a chunk of the Democratic base stayed home.

Until then, the answer is likely to be a bit more complicated than that. More along the lines of, some racist black Obama supporters stayed home because they did not have a black guy to vote for, some conservative Republicans stayed home because they did not have a religious conservative to vote for, some "enlightened Republicans" either stayed home or held their noses and voted for Hillary, and some working class Democrats held their noses and voted for Donald Trump.

And more combinations not listed above. Point is, it's not just a case of Democrats lacking enthusiasm and letting Trump win through lack of effort (read turnout).

They have, several times. 90% of registered Republicans voted for Trump - just like 90% for Romney, and 90% for McCain. Similar numbers for Clinton. 

Per my analysis, it's almost precisely the case that the Democrats lacked enthusiasm and Trump won through lack of turnout. Trump had turnout a bit better than Romney and McCain in certain places (and a LOT better in Florida, for some unknown weird-ass reason) but the real thing was that Clinton's turnout was way, WAY down in those places that she thought were safer. Those voters didn't vote for Trump or Johnson or Stein. They simply appear to not have voted, possibly not in the presidency at all, possibly not at all period.