faroresdragn

Can someone explain how the troops are moving around in the North?

4 posts in this topic

I took too long after reading AGOT to start reading ACOK, and I cant keep track of how these armies are moving around in the North. 

BTW, I just finished the chapter where Ser Davos sails the red woman below the wall at Storm's End and she gives birth to that weird shadow baby, so no spoilers past that if you can.

So I thought that I remembered reading that Robb brought like 10000 men from the North. When they got to the Twins, Robb sent like half his force south in the night to attack Twins force in like a suicide mission to fool him into thinking it was their main force or something, while Robb crossed the Twins with the rest of his soldiers to help Riverrun fight Jaime Lannister. Tehn Robb went to some place near the Golden Tooth and won a victory in the night. Then when Catelyn comes back to Riverrun after the thing with Renly, Edmure talks about being able to take on Tywin Lannister by calling on Roose Bolton with his TEN THOUSAND MEN. 

The last I heard, all of Robbs men who went south from the Twins got slaughtered by the Lannisters, exept for a few that they took prisoner, and Robb left a few guys at the Twins to hold the crossing. Now all of a sudden some guy named Roose Bolton has ten thousand men just sitting around at the Twins with nothing to do? Did Robb take ALOT more people from the north than I thought he did? Cause I could have sworn he only took like 10000 total. And 10000 seems like an excessive amount to leave just to hold the crossing, since it sounded like with those additional 10000, Edmure would be able to be somewhat matched or be able to overpower the Lannister army. So if Robb had that many people originally, why would be leave so many behind when he went for Riverrun? And Why not call them immediately after Tywin went to Harrenhal, and obviously had no more interest in the crossing? 

So how many men do the Starks and the lannisters have, and where are they at? And how many people did Robb originally bring south? And where did Roose Bolton get 10000 men?

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19 hours ago, faroresdragn said:

I took too long after reading AGOT to start reading ACOK, and I cant keep track of how these armies are moving around in the North.

I would read the last chapters of AGOT anew before ACOK so that this kind of things doesn't happen as much. It's normal to forget some details.

Quote

So I thought that I remembered reading that Robb brought like 10000 men from the North. When they got to the Twins, Robb sent like half his force south in the night to attack Twins force in like a suicide mission to fool him into thinking it was their main force or something, while Robb crossed the Twins with the rest of his soldiers to help Riverrun fight Jaime Lannister. Tehn Robb went to some place near the Golden Tooth and won a victory in the night. Then when Catelyn comes back to Riverrun after the thing with Renly, Edmure talks about being able to take on Tywin Lannister by calling on Roose Bolton with his TEN THOUSAND MEN. 

Robb gathered nigh on 20000 men at Moat Cailin, where he left a few men as garrison, and was reinforced at the Twins by 4000 Freys. Makes 24000 men, roughly 6000 horse and 18000 foot.

Robb leaves a Garrison of a few hundred men under Helman Tallhart at the Twins to ensure Walder Freys loyalty who has his own similar sized garrison.

Then he sent all his foot and 1/10 of his horse south along the Green Fork under the command of Roose Bolton (keep that name in mind he'll get more important later on) to meet Tywin Lannister.  Roose Boltons Army prior to the battle of the Green Fork consists of roughly 17000 foot and a few hundred horse. This army is smashed by Tywin late in AGOT (Tyrion chapter has a good description) so that by ACOK Roose Bolton has only 10000 men left.

19 hours ago, faroresdragn said:

The last I heard, all of Robbs men who went south from the Twins got slaughtered by the Lannisters, exept for a few that they took prisoner, and Robb left a few guys at the Twins to hold the crossing. Now all of a sudden some guy named Roose Bolton has ten thousand men just sitting around at the Twins with nothing to do?

Roose Bolton married Fat Walda Frey after retreating to the Twins, so he had something to do... ;)

I think you got confused by the show as well, because in the show Robb splits his army in half and sends them on a "suicide mission". While in the book he takes 90% of his cavalry(5500 men) and leaves almost all the rest to Roose Bolton(ca 17500 men). Roose Bolton's army wasn't slaughtered, but he suffered severe casualties: from 17500 men he is now down to 10000 men.

19 hours ago, faroresdragn said:

 Did Robb take ALOT more people from the north than I thought he did? Cause I could have sworn he only took like 10000 total.

Yes roughly double the amount of men: 20000.

19 hours ago, faroresdragn said:

And 10000 seems like an excessive amount to leave just to hold the crossing, since it sounded like with those additional 10000, Edmure would be able to be somewhat matched or be able to overpower the Lannister army. So if Robb had that many people originally, why would be leave so many behind when he went for Riverrun?

And Why not call them immediately after Tywin went to Harrenhal, and obviously had no more interest in the crossing?

Robb left the Infantry under Roose Bolton's command to engage Tywin Lannister. Riverrun was under siege and it was expected to fall soon. So Robb needed to hurry up to relieve the siege. The Force with Robb is only cavalry (about 5500 men: northmen and Freys) , so he could travel much faster and reach Riverrun in time.

Your second question is much harder to answer, without spoilers I can say that they didn't matter all that much in Robbs plans, which relied more on speed and surprise than on numbers (you can see that when he smashes Jaimes army). Read on and do a reread of late AGOT & early ACOK chapters if it bothers you too much.

19 hours ago, faroresdragn said:

So how many men do the Starks and the lannisters have, and where are they at? And how many people did Robb originally bring south?

And where did Roose Bolton get 10000 men?

How many men the Starks, or every other house for that matter, have in total is a matter of dispute, especially in these forums.

AFAIK GRRM once stated that the North has about 40000 men total while the Riverlands have slightly more, the Westerlands (Lannisters & their bannermen) have about 50000 men. The Vale has 40000 as well, the Reach 80000, the Stormlands 35000, Dorne 30000, Iron Islands 25000, Crownlands (the region of King's landing) 15000. These are not exact numbers though.

Roose Bolton was made commander of all of Robb's infantry and a small part of his cavalry before Robb split his army at the Twins.

As of ACOK: Robb has about 5500 cavalrymen and he is currently in the Westerlands, Roose has the northern & Frey infantry plus a few cavalry consisting 10000 men total. Tywin Lannister has probably more than 20000 men at Harrenhal.

BTW welcome to the forums.

Edited by Bironic

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Welcome,

One has to note, that usually in Medieval battles it wasn't like one side won and all of the soldiers from the other side were killed off. Those battles usually lasted for a while, until one side realized that they were going to loose, at which point they retreated in a not very orderly fashion and reorganized later on once they were safe. So, Tywin smashed Roose's forces and most of them fled, except the ones that were captured or killed. The people who'd fled later reorganized and retreated to the Twins, where Roose waited for further instructions.

Edited by Criston of House Shapper

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On 11/14/2016 at 4:26 PM, Bironic said:

I would read the last chapters of AGOT anew before ACOK so that this kind of things doesn't happen as much. It's normal to forget some details.

Robb gathered nigh on 20000 men at Moat Cailin, where he left a few men as garrison, and was reinforced at the Twins by 4000 Freys. Makes 24000 men, roughly 6000 horse and 18000 foot.

Robb leaves a Garrison of a few hundred men under Helman Tallhart at the Twins to ensure Walder Freys loyalty who has his own similar sized garrison.

Then he sent all his foot and 1/10 of his horse south along the Green Fork under the command of Roose Bolton (keep that name in mind he'll get more important later on) to meet Tywin Lannister.  Roose Boltons Army prior to the battle of the Green Fork consists of roughly 17000 foot and a few hundred horse. This army is smashed by Tywin late in AGOT (Tyrion chapter has a good description) so that by ACOK Roose Bolton has only 10000 men left.

Roose Bolton married Fat Walda Frey after retreating to the Twins, so he had something to do... ;)

I think you got confused by the show as well, because in the show Robb splits his army in half and sends them on a "suicide mission". While in the book he takes 90% of his cavalry(5500 men) and leaves almost all the rest to Roose Bolton(ca 17500 men). Roose Bolton's army wasn't slaughtered, but he suffered severe casualties: from 17500 men he is now down to 10000 men.

Yes roughly double the amount of men: 20000.

Robb left the Infantry under Roose Bolton's command to engage Tywin Lannister. Riverrun was under siege and it was expected to fall soon. So Robb needed to hurry up to relieve the siege. The Force with Robb is only cavalry (about 5500 men: northmen and Freys) , so he could travel much faster and reach Riverrun in time.

Your second question is much harder to answer, without spoilers I can say that they didn't matter all that much in Robbs plans, which relied more on speed and surprise than on numbers (you can see that when he smashes Jaimes army). Read on and do a reread of late AGOT & early ACOK chapters if it bothers you too much.

How many men the Starks, or every other house for that matter, have in total is a matter of dispute, especially in these forums.

AFAIK GRRM once stated that the North has about 40000 men total while the Riverlands have slightly more, the Westerlands (Lannisters & their bannermen) have about 50000 men. The Vale has 40000 as well, the Reach 80000, the Stormlands 35000, Dorne 30000, Iron Islands 25000, Crownlands (the region of King's landing) 15000. These are not exact numbers though.

Roose Bolton was made commander of all of Robb's infantry and a small part of his cavalry before Robb split his army at the Twins.

As of ACOK: Robb has about 5500 cavalrymen and he is currently in the Westerlands, Roose has the northern & Frey infantry plus a few cavalry consisting 10000 men total. Tywin Lannister has probably more than 20000 men at Harrenhal.

BTW welcome to the forums.

Fantastic breakdown. Really helped put things in place mentally. Cheers

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