Little Scribe of Naath

Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

1,629 posts in this topic

As the filming of S7 began, some Season 7 leaks  began making the round on the Interwebs. An intrepid fan has collected them here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/57w3yw/my_awayforthelads_season_7_spoiler_timeline/

Filming information released so far has corraborated the leaks pretty strongly, so for now, we can comfortably accept these as "mostly true" .

 

Feel free to voice any and all criticism of the leaks in this thread. 

ETA: Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand: this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about details or events that posters disliked. Posts that ignore this will be considered off-topic. 

Edited by Little Scribe of Naath

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Okay, let's start with the main one.  Really?  The wight hunt?  I am so tired of the good guys acting like naive idiots.  

Also, the Jon-Dany "romance" part seems like a cheese fest even by Game of Thrones standards.  They really are going to show scenes of them having sex while the Wall is falling.  Really?  

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Sounds like the Littlefinger plot never recovers from season 5 and they just bake up a new reason to off him.

Wighting the white dragon just seems too on the nose for something that would actually happen in the books as well.

I'm betting the entire attention paid to the Lannisters conquering High Garden and Dorne will be as much as that bullet point.  I get needing to wrap things up, but thats more of a wrecking ball.

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It seems like the only people who are happy with the craptastic plot for the season are big Dany fans.  Can someone please tell me why exactly this is the case?  I think that the leaks make her seem like a bitch.  

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I am actually the least thrilled about Cersei's narrative arc.  They are clearly using her as an agglomeration of far too many story threads from the text and the strain has simply broken into incoherence. 

Daenerys and Jon are always going to come off as less nuanced and multifaceted than they do in the books. That ship has sailed, no pun intended. Benioff and Weiss are determined to have their protagonist (i.e., D, J and T) as conventional and genre conforming as possible. This has been the case since the first episode so I could hardly be surprised about it now. 

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The Cersei pregnancy thing is stupid but she is the only one who actually appears to act savvy.  The rest of the characters have taken dumb pills.

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As I outlined in the older thread, this baffling reason by the showrunners to keep Cersei alive is really at the root of this whole ridiculous wight hunt and many of the other nonsensical narrative choices, like the Tarly deception this season. I seriously can't think of a reason why they would want to keep her alive at this point, except that they overly like the character/Lena Headey. 

The writing is so bad this season that I think they have even stopped trying. It's the easiest thing in the world to have followed the book at this point and made Euron into a crazed magical narcissist and an extremely formidable foe for Dany to fight - it would offset the extreme overpowering of Dany's coalition (seriously, 3 dragons, Unsullied, Martells, 3/4th of Tyrells, Dothraki ???)

What would it have taken for them to introduce the dragon horn and make Euron snatch/kill one of Dany's dragons, thus adding tension to the whole clash ? At this point I simply can't even see the reason for them casting Euron in the show. Just to kill the awful sand snakes and Yara?? 

All of this is unfortunately a consequence of their immensely poor writing choices from the past two seasons. Fortunately, it doesn't seem like any of this crap is going to be featured in the books.

Edited by Little Scribe of Naath

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We are never getting the other books.  And I am fine with Cersei appearing competent.  In fact, I predicted Dany would face setbacks and I am actually quite geeked about the Tarlys double crossing the Tyrells as long as it is for personal gain rather than some dumb principle.  It makes the excursion to Horn Hill with Sam and Gilly make sense.  What does not make sense is using the wight hunt to keep her around.

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1 hour ago, kg1982 said:

It seems like the only people who are happy with the craptastic plot for the season are big Dany fans.  Can someone please tell me why exactly this is the case?  I think that the leaks make her seem like a bitch.  

Like I that before I'm a Dany fan (at least of her book character) and I'm not happy with this. I think every character has some fans who believe that the show (or the books) are a competition between characters. One character has to win and beat all others. I've encountered Jon fans who think this way, I've encountered Dany fans who think this way, I've encountered Sansa fans who think this way, I've encountered Arya fans who think this way etc. I don't believe that these kinds of fans form the majority of fans think this way, but thes kinds of fans tend to be very vocal when it looks like their wishes get confirmed. In Season 6 many people on this board hated Sansa's arc and many fans of her book character, felt like the show had completely ruined her, but some of her fans who believe that the show is this kind of competition were happy about it. I think the group of Dany fans who think in a similar way are happy with it, because they feel that there is a competition between Jon and Dany. They hate Jon and think that she should win. Which I find completely ridiculous as somone who's a fan of Jon as well. 

8 hours ago, kg1982 said:

Okay, let's start with the main one.  Really?  The wight hunt?  I am so tired of the good guys acting like naive idiots.  

Also, the Jon-Dany "romance" part seems like a cheese fest even by Game of Thrones standards.  They really are going to show scenes of them having sex while the Wall is falling.  Really?  

I know that you (and many others) don't like this romance in general. I think GRRM could do it in an interesting way, but I think the showrunners will turn it in a completely cheesy Hollywood romance. It wouldn't be the first time that they ruin his character development in order to focus on a romance and let him spend time with a love interest. 

1 hour ago, Faint said:

I am actually the least thrilled about Cersei's narrative arc.  They are clearly using her as an agglomeration of far too many story threads from the text and the strain has simply broken into incoherence. 

Daenerys and Jon are always going to come off as less nuanced and multifaceted than they do in the books. That ship has sailed, no pun intended. Benioff and Weiss are determined to have their protagonist (i.e., D, J and T) as conventional and genre conforming as possible. This has been the case since the first episode so I could hardly be surprised about it now. 

Agree for Cersei. 

What I didn't like about Jon's characterisation in the show was that they cut out his abilities as a negociator and an administrator. After he became KitN I hoped that we would focus on his ruling abilities in season 7. They could even get inspirations from parts of his ADWD arc for that, but it seems like they are  turning him into a classical fantasy action hero again. I'm not a big fan of Tyrion in the books, but at least he isn't a Mary Sue in them and Dany annoys me with her constant speeches in the show. 

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If the pregnancy happens I will make the biggest rant ever

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6 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

As I outlined in the older thread, this baffling reason by the showrunners to keep Cersei alive is really at the root of this whole ridiculous wight hunt and many of the other nonsensical narrative choices, like the Tarly deception this season. I seriously can't think of a reason why they would want to keep her alive at this point, except that they overly like the character/Lena Headey. 

 

Agree completely. 

6 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

 

The writing is so bad this season that I think they have even stopped trying. It's the easiest thing in the world to have followed the book at this point and made Euron into a crazed magical narcissist and an extremely formidable foe for Dany to fight - it would offset the extreme overpowering of Dany's coalition (seriously, 3 dragons, Unsullied, Martells, 3/4th of Tyrells, Dothraki ???)

What would it have taken for them to introduce the dragon horn and make Euron snatch/kill one of Dany's dragons, thus adding tension to the whole clash ? At this point I simply can't even see the reason for them casting Euron in the show. Just to kill the awful sand snakes and Yara?? 

All of this is unfortunately a consequence of their immensely poor writing choices from the past two seasons. Fortunately, it doesn't seem like any of this crap is going to be featured in the books.

Since you brought up the dragonhorn...

I bet many of you know the TWOW cover, if not here it is. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12111823-the-winds-of-winter?from_search=true

The cover of the book already indicates that horns will probably be important for the story. We've got the Dragonhorn already and there are theories that the wall might be brought down by the Horn of Joramun in the books. 

Now there might ways in which Dany could loose without looking to stupid (though believe they've made her coalitation too big and should have made her enemies more powerful), but I bet her losses will be caussed by her (or Tyrion) acting completely stupid. The wall will also fall because our main character are acting incredibly stupid. 

Now all this stupidity could have been avoided by just introducing one (or two depending on how the Wall will fall down) two horns. It's not like these kinds of objects are super expensive propbs. 

Edited by Lady of Whisperers

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5 hours ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

Like I that before I'm a Dany fan (at least of her book character) and I'm not happy with this. I think every character has some fans who believe that the show (or the books) are a competition between characters. One character has to win and beat all others. I've encountered Jon fans who think this way, I've encountered Dany fans who think this way, I've encountered Sansa fans who think this way, I've encountered Arya fans who think this way etc. I don't believe that these kinds of fans form the majority of fans think this way, but thes kinds of fans tend to be very vocal when it looks like their wishes get confirmed. In Season 6 many people on this board hated Sansa's arc and many fans of her book character, felt like the show had completely ruined her, but some of her fans who believe that the show is this kind of competition were happy about it. I think the group of Dany fans who think in a similar way are happy with it, because they feel that there is a competition between Jon and Dany. They hate Jon and think that she should win. Which I find completely ridiculous as somone who's a fan of Jon as well. 

I know that you (and many others) don't like this romance in general. I think GRRM could do it in an interesting way, but I think the showrunners will turn it in a completely cheesy Hollywood romance. It wouldn't be the first time that they ruin his character development in order to focus on a romance and let him spend time with a love interest. 

Agree for Cersei. 

What I didn't like about Jon's characterisation in the show was that they cut out his abilities as a negociator and an administrator. After he became KitN I hoped that we would focus on his ruling abilities in season 7. They could even get inspirations from parts of his ADWD arc for that, but it seems like they are  turning him into a classical fantasy action hero again. I'm not a big fan of Tyrion in the books, but at least he isn't a Mary Sue in them and Dany annoys me with her constant speeches in the show. 

1.  I was fine with Sansa's arc in Season 6.  Girl finally gained some agency over her own life.  Sansa calling out Littlefinger for selling her to the Boltons in the Door was great.  I am not a survivor but I do advocate for rape survivors and many were heartened by that.  What was a bit annoying was Sansa lying to Jon and not telling him about LF.  They wanted the Knights of Rohan to show up rather than having plausible plot development.  

2.  Sometimes one character only wins if the other character loses.  Dany winning and ruling means that Jon and the North lose.  The best case for them is Jon as some sort of consort who cuts ribbons and does ceremonial "queen" stuff while Dany actually rules.  (Which would make the man miserable and which does not mean the North has any actual influence.  I pray that this isn't the ending and that Jon actually would tell Dany to shove it.)  So Dany getting what she wants means the North gets screwed again.

3.  The obvious nature of the romance is irksome.  Also as a fan of Team North, I do not like the whole kneeling garbage nor do I like the fact that Jon is willing to sleep with her after he gives up the North to her. It strikes me as really Dany adding another boy for her collection rather than any sort of relationship of equals.  If he is going to kneel to her for political support, he should not also have to sleep with her. 

4.  Yes, Jon is a stupid beefcake.  This has been established in prior seasons; why anyone would place value in him is beyond me.  But I am shocked that they are making Dany a bitch as well as being almost as stupid as Jon if they end up with that characterization.  

Edited by kg1982

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7 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

Was Alliser Thorne ever sent south with the hand in the show?

I wanted to know as well, so I reserached it and I've found the plot hole.

In Season 1 when Mormont gave Jon Longclaw he told Jon that he had send Alliser Thorne to KL with the hand: It's around 1:35

And this is from Season 2: At 0:55 Pycelle puts out a letter in which Mormont asks the KL for men for the NW and writes them about how he was attacked by a wight. We only see Alliser again in Season 4. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

I wanted to know as well, so I reserached it and I've found the plot hole.

In Season 1 when Mormont gave Jon Longclaw he told Jon that he had send Alliser Thorne to KL with the hand: It's around 1:35

And this is from Season 2: At 0:55 Pycelle puts out a letter in which Mormont asks the KL for men for the NW and writes them about how he was attacked by a wight. We only see Alliser again in Season 4. 

 

So, that is one plot hole avoided but another one found. Even still it seems strange (and breaks from the book) that wights cannot be deactivated if no longer of use/continue to work no matter how far from home.

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7 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

So, that is one plot hole avoided but another one found. Even still it seems strange (and breaks from the book) that wights cannot be deactivated if no longer of use/continue to work no matter how far from home.

The night is dark and full of plot holes :D

 

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2 hours ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

Agree completely. 

Since you brought up the dragonhorn...

I bet many of you know the TWOW cover, if not here it is. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12111823-the-winds-of-winter?from_search=true

The cover of the book already indicates that horn will probably be important for the story. We've got the Dragonhorn already and I there are theories that the wall might be brought down by the Horn of Dragonhorn in the books. 

Now there might ways in which Dany could loose without looking to stupid (though believe they've made her coalitation too big and should have made her enemies more powerful), but I bet her losses will be caussed by her (or Tyrion) acting completely stupod. The wall will also fall because our main character are acting incredibly stupid. 

Now all this stupidity could have been avoided by just introducing one (or two depending on how the Wall will fall down) horns. It's not like these kinds of objects are super expensive propbs. 

So much this. There are times, like the decision to cut Aegon out or move Sansa North, I can somewhat understand (even though the Sansa thing was a debacle.) This stuff - getting a simple prop dragonhorn and executing this storyline - I mean, it beats me why they don't do such obvious things and instead choose to make every character act inconsistent and moronic.

It's quite clear from their writing process that they write only with the intent of shock, battles, spectacle and to give prominence to a few  characters (Cersei, Jon, Dany) not with an intent of plot or storytelling coherence. You can see that from the way characters are totally wasted -  see Dorne, the Stark kids, Euron, even Tyrion, etc. I think they sat down for Season 7, wondered how to squeeze in as many battles, dragons and ice zombies as possible, and throw in an evil but super competent villain (reminds you of Ramsay, anyone?) and a romance between the two hot leads (executed so cheesily and badly that it seems like something lifted from fanfiction.) 

They've gone full Hollywood Fast-and-Furious movie kind of route. Snazzy action, badly developed romance, clear cut baddies and heroes, etc. Which is fine - this stuff brings in the moolah. What is ridiculous is that GOT tries to dress itself up as some big-time quality storytelling, which it's not. It's simply brainless popcorn entertainment, unfortunately posing as a classic. 

Edited by Little Scribe of Naath

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2 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

If the pregnancy happens I will make the biggest rant ever

This isn't confirmed yet, isn't it? However, this ranks along with the boat sex scene set simultaneously to the images of the Wall falling, as a travesty in writing, something so idiotic and unnecessary one wonders if they were sober when they came up with it. 

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