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Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]


Little Scribe of Naath

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3 hours ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

The Glovers FEARED the Boltons, and didn't think the Starks were worthy anymore to risk being skinned - they didn't "prefer the Boltons" despite "Boltons being more dishonourable", it was a slightly more complicated equation than that you know.

I get the details mixed up, but Glover said Robb had let him down and "let the Greyjoys brutalize his people" - by getting himself killed because he couldn't control his cock? Or earlier than that?

Anyway that was roughly the rationale he offered - had Sansa's army been strong enough to just sweep over the Boltons (i.e. had Sansa told him about the Vale :D), he would've welcomed it because he didn't particularly enjoy living under flaying tyrants.
 



And the Sands' actions weren't presented as rational or consistent with "the modern West's revenge ideals" either - they clearly punished Doran for being too weak to seek revenge, it's a as plausible a mindset for humans to have as any.


A bit more rationality in your criticisms please, if that's okay.

I believe sweetsunray's criticism was quite rationale and if you've read the books you'll know that the Northern Lords are quite loyal to the Starks even with no real Stark claiming Winterfell. There's no Jon or Sansa begging for help just fArya married to the Boltons. Even with fArya married to Ramsay, the mountain clans and Mors Umber are fighting along Stannis' army to save the Ned's little girl. In the books, the reason most Northern houses like the Umbers and Manderlys are in the Boltons' camp is because they have kin being held hostage by the Lannisters/Freys, which the show does not show or imply.

The only Northern Lord Roose can really count on in the books is Arnolf Karstark and that is because he wants the real Lord of Karhold, who's being held hostage, killed. The Dustins and Ryswells are only supprting the Boltons because of Lady Dustin and even her loyalties to the Bolton's are suspect in the books. Lady Dustin most certainly will not support Ramsay (who she hates) if he killed Roose.  These are Roose's words in ADWD "We have powerful friends in the Lannisters and Freys, and the grudging support of the north ... but what do you imagine is going to happen when one of Ned Stark's sons turn up?" And in the show they have the Umbers (a loyal Northern house) hand over one of Ned's sons to the Boltons for no apparent reason. In the show Smalljon Umber dies at the RW protecting Robb and in the books they have him just come and hand over the Ned's kid to batshit Ramsay for no logical reason. If you think of it, there was no need for him to do so, say like fear of repercussion as you state or anything as Ramsay didn't even know that the Umbers had Rickon. He just did it to curry favor with a mad man and then stands and watches as said mad man kills Roose, his true liege Lord. To make matters worse, Roose just severed ties with the Lannisters by marrying his son to Sansa (whose head Cersei wants) and Ramsay just killed Walder Frey's daughter.  Therefore, in the show, the Boltons no longer have powerful friends and hostages from Northern houses and so I wonder why the Northern houses fear the Boltons as you so claim. D&D cut and chopped so many characters and stories (like Stannis reclaiming Deepwood Motte for the Glovers) and stitched together an incoherent illogical storyline with the characters they had left and expect people to be fine with it. D&D can't even be consistent within their own narrative -- in S1 they had the Northern lords (like the Umbers) loyal to Starks and by S6 they have them supporting a mad man like Ramsay. Fear you say. Fear of what? Did the show indicate that Ramsay had other sort of support or a strong army or was an experienced military commander? IIRC, in S5 Roose also claimed that the Northern lords would support Ned's sons if they were alive and so he had Locke go looking for them to kill them. I guess D&D forgot that bit or expect their dumb fans, who'll swallow anything they dish out, to forget it or not care. 

As for Dorne, I don't seriously understand what's Elia (who btw in the books advocates against vengeance and war) and the Sandsnakes' reasoning is for killing Doran. They wanted vengeance for the killers of Oberyn so they kill his brother? Doran being weak is just lazy and poor writing IMO. D&D made a mess of Dorne in season 5 and then they came up with the stupid plot to have Elia kill Doran to wrap the Dorne storyline. In fact, Alexander Siddig (the actor who plays Doran) was surprised that he gets killed in the first Ep of S6 as he was under the impression that he would be there in more Eps in S6. That implies that Doran getting stabbed was probably a last minute fix by D&D for the fiasco that was Dorne. Your argument "they clearly punished Doran for being too weak to seek revenge, it's a as plausible a mindset for humans to have as any" does not make any sense considering practices in the ASOIAF world or the medieval world the on which the books are based on. For one, Elia and the Sandsnakes have no claim to the rule of Dorne because Elia is a paramour and the Sandsnakes are bastards. Even in Dorne where paramours and bastards have more rights than elsewhere in Westeros, they have no right to inheritance. And, Elia and the Sandsnakes just killed the ruler of Dorne, who in the books and the show has ruled Dorne for decades, and takes over the rule of Dorne, all because he was weak? Sorry, but I don't see that as rationale or logical storytelling just bad writing by two hack writers who were trying to fix their initial messy and stupid plot. 

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As always a reminder of the OP:

Quote

ETA: Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand: this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about details or events that posters disliked. Posts that ignore this will be considered off-topic. 

And that is all I have to say about my rationality.

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[mod] A couple of brief reminders:

1. This is a show thread not a book thread. Discussing the content of the books insofar as they relate to the show is fine, discussing how or whether or when the books will progress is off-topic.

2. Please remain polite to other users even when you disagree with them.

3. It is not the job of the moderators to read and assess every single post on this site. That would be a full-time job and none of us are paid to do that. We have lives.

You, as users, have a responsibility to report posts and then the moderators will look at those and make a judgement. That's our job. Don't ignore things and then complain that nothing was done.

Thank you.

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On 16/11/2016 at 10:44 PM, Faint said:

Daenerys and Jon are always going to come off as less nuanced and multifaceted than they do in the books. That ship has sailed, no pun intended. Benioff and Weiss are determined to have their protagonist (i.e., D, J and T) as conventional and genre conforming as possible. This has been the case since the first episode so I could hardly be surprised about it now. 

:agree:

Other than that;

1. How could Gilly know about Rhaegar's marriage?

2. How many times Jon has to  nearly die? Is he GoT's Rory?

3. If it happens, I like that Jon doesn't blame all the Umbers or Karstarks.

4. Where is Alys? We know that she will appear but where is she?

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On 17/11/2016 at 0:30 AM, Meera of Tarth said:

If the pregnancy happens I will make the biggest rant ever

Which would be perfectly normal. 

If she is pregnant, she got pregnant in S4 and not even she knows it 3 seasons later? So from Joff's death to Dany arriving in Westeros has passed 5 months the most?

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10 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Which would be perfectly normal. 

If she is pregnant, she got pregnant in S4 and not even she knows it 3 seasons later? So from Joff's death to Dany arriving in Westeros has passed 5 months the most?

she obviously fucked jaime in season 6.

 

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10 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Which would be perfectly normal. 

If she is pregnant, she got pregnant in S4 and not even she knows it 3 seasons later? So from Joff's death to Dany arriving in Westeros has passed 5 months the most?

maybe they consumated in s6 in that horrible scene where they are kissing. But the pregnancy makes nonsense whatsoever, brcause the showrunners said we were gonna see what's left in Cersei once her kids have died(that would contradict themselves) and it's only cheap and absurd drama to continue the twincest.......

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6 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

careful, should we start worrying about Sansa being pregnant again?

lol....

pregnancies post s1 in got could take less or more than the normal as well! We have Walda.....but we also had Stannis' battle that lasted....mmmmmm

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I could see a pregnancy of Cersei happening. This will be a last try of her to beat the prophecy. And I think, the moment she miscarriages, will be the moment she will realise all hope is dead and she will lose her mind. As to the father, I guess it will be Jamie. They will probably fuck after the events of season six, probably off screen before season seven beginns. We might see just some hints in an episode, maybe the two waking up together, maybe episode 1. After all, she is queen now, and probably does not give a shit anymore with whom to sleep. Robbert also had tons of affairs while he was king and everybody knew that. So thats that. 

But to be honest, I could see that also happening in the books, while I I do not think with Jamie, for a certain reasons, mainly because of georgraphic impossibilities and also because Jamie in the books already has broken with Cersei. But it might be someone, she manipulates or someone who willingly sleeps with her. My guess is (tinnfoil-hat on) Qyburn. The kid will have in Cerseis head no other purpose than to beat the prophecy and saving her ass. In the books it wont work either. That will be the point in the books, where Cersei will change mentally. Where she sees that nothing will work, that dead is comming to her.The mad queen shall be born.

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10 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Oh, I can see Cersei getting pregnant too. She is clearly the one they are pushing as   "The main character" of the show and it is long past tollerable. Sure but the question is: who is the daddy?

Daenerys, Jon, Sansa, Bran and Arya are all much more "main characters" than Cersei.
Cersei's been kind of a "sympathetic villain protagonist" for the past season.

Tyrion COULD remain one of "the" main characters, if he doesn't get absorbed into Daenerys - which he could or not, different moments in S6 made both possibilities plausible.
Obviously it'd suck if he does.

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On 9.4.2017 at 11:10 PM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

:agree:

Other than that;

1. How could Gilly know about Rhaegar's marriage?

2. How many times Jon has to  nearly die? Is he GoT's Rory?

3. If it happens, I like that Jon doesn't blame all the Umbers or Karstarks.

4. Where is Alys? We know that she will appear but where is she?

Don't know the answers for questions 2-4, but apparently marriage certificates are just lying around at the citadel. 

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38 minutes ago, Queen of Procrastination said:

Bran and arya have significantly less screentime than cersei does. She is one of the characters with the highest amount of screentime on the show. 

And sansa only had more screentime in season 6, but not in total. 

Wasn't talking about "screentime".

I think S6 just had a particular focus on Cersei because she had this revenge arc going on where viewers could be made to root for her (with reservations) - now that she's an evil queen, and we got to see how she became it and what drove her etc., I think she'll become more of a 3rd person character again like she was earlier: for Jaime, and eventually other characters who make their way there.

All those other people have had their arc going since S1, Cersei's not gonna come along and suddenly hijack them all - plus, out of all the "big set-ups and moments" in E10 her coronation was the smallest part, so don't worry.

 

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49 minutes ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

Wasn't talking about "screentime".

I think S6 just had a particular focus on Cersei because she had this revenge arc going on where viewers could be made to root for her (with reservations) - now that she's an evil queen, and we got to see how she became it and what drove her etc., I think she'll become more of a 3rd person character again like she was earlier: for Jaime, and eventually other characters who make their way there.

All those other people have had their arc going since S1, Cersei's not gonna come along and suddenly hijack them all - plus, out of all the "big set-ups and moments" in E10 her coronation was the smallest part, so don't worry.

 

Have u seen the promo??? Cersei and s7 are snonyms

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Uh, which the long walk? She gets like equal screentime with Jon and Danayy, and they have a throne thing going on there - these are the only "king" characters, so that doesn't mean the other ones are gonna be less important.

No reason for her to suddenly stop being important especially in her new position, and no reason to stop doing her PoV (though I suspect it'll scale back again), but she's not gonna suddenly become the protagonist and all the other become supporting characters come on

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Especially if she's gonna make an "alliance" (of sorts?) with the WWs, she'll become the main human antagonist - the worst you can expect from something like that is that it might go the "Batman Returns route" and focus on the villains over the good guys; but I'm not seeing that happening

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