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Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]


Little Scribe of Naath

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3 hours ago, TheCasualObserver said:

Why was she even there? That made no goddamn sense. 

So that they could cull the cast in a most dramatic way. Of course the whole Talissa made no sense - Robb breaks promises with his allies for an infatuation and then takes his pregnant wife carrying his heir to the Twins to insult those angry former allies some more. It makes Robb a complete moron. Robb made mistakes, more of inexperience than stupidity however. But Starks are the "Stupids" on this show of course. 

And Talissa did have a "makes no sense" ripple effect in S6. Since she was preggers, Robb made no will, and Jon was elected KitN "just because", while Sandra sits right beside him, after being saved from disastrous battle results by a Vale army he didn't know of, after being turned down by every Northern house, except House Mormont, during their tour of the North to rally support against the Boltons.

Absolutely nothing makes sense anymore. :bang:

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2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

So that they could cull the cast in a most dramatic way. Of course the whole Talissa made no sense - Robb breaks promises with his allies for an infatuation and then takes his pregnant wife carrying his heir to the Twins to insult those angry former allies some more. It makes Robb a complete moron. Robb made mistakes, more of inexperience than stupidity however. But Starks are the "Stupids" on this show of course. 

And Talissa did have a "makes no sense" ripple effect in S6. Since she was preggers, Robb made no will, and Jon was elected KitN "just because", while Sandra sits right beside him, after being saved from disastrous battle results by a Vale army he didn't know of, after being turned down by every Northern house, except House Mormont, during their tour of the North to rally support against the Boltons.

Absolutely nothing makes sense anymore. :bang:

from the Talissa plot. as an unsullied at that time, the thing that I did not understand the most is why does he bring her to the wedding after having refused to marry the Frey girl....but especially considering she is pregnant (that would insult the Freys even more).

the fact that Talissa as a noble from Volantis made no sense doing what she was doing there didn't bother me a lot (the sex slaves and the stupid sex scenes in the show bothered me more) but this thing in the Red Wedding....I just found it odd.

And the KITN scene is probably one of the most stupid scenes that the show has ever created. It's insanely stupid. Sansa is there and Jon was not a Hero at all. He failed as a Commander... He is KITN because Jon is one of the big four, period. And let's forget about Bran as well......(they mention him several times.....) but with Sansa there really???? And with the previous scene when Jon and Sansa discuss about what they want.....and Jon doesn't want to rule!!!;!!! And is happy Sansa should!!!!!!bit then....oh no. I'm KITN sister.

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52 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

from the Talissa plot. as an unsullied at that time, the thing that I did not understand the most is why does he bring her to the wedding after having refused to marry the Frey girl....but especially considering she is pregnant (that would insult the Freys even more).

the fact that Talissa as a noble from Volantis made no sense doing what she was doing there didn't bother me a lot (the sex slaves and the stupid sex scenes in the show bothered me more) but this thing in the Red Wedding....I just found it odd.

And the KITN scene is probably one of the most stupid scenes that the show has ever created. It's insanely stupid. Sansa is there and Jon was not a Hero at all. He failed as a Commander... He is KITN because Jon is one of the big four, period. And let's forget about Bran as well......(they mention him several times.....) but with Sansa there really???? And with the previous scene when Jon and Sansa discuss about what they want.....and Jon doesn't want to rule!!!;!!! And is happy Sansa should!!!!!!bit then....oh no. I'm KITN sister.

This is soooooo right. Jon didn't do shit, he basically lost the battle, he got himself assassinated as lord commander and he didn't rally ANY of the northern houses to their cause. Sandra brought the winning army, Sandra proposed to take Winterfell and Sandra killed Ramsay. Sandra is an actual Stark, Robb's heir while Bran is missing, the winner of the battle and the widow of the previous lord. HOW IS SHE NOT the one to rule? 

But my favorite part was he avanged the red wedding. What. When. How. Tywin, Roose and Walder arranged the red wedding while Ramsay sacked Winterfell. They were killed by Tyrion, Ramsay, Arya and Sandra in this order. What did Jon EVER have to do with the red wedding? And why do these lords listen to a ten year old little shit? Why doesn't anybody ask about Bran? Why doesn't anybody ask how and why Jon left the NW? Argh, god, the memory of it pisses me off. 

Oh and Talisa. In the books, Catelyn tells Robb point blank not to take Jeyne to the wedding because it's a bloody insult to an unstable, unpredictable old man he screwed over who is known for his questionable loyalty. The show though? Robb straight up smooches pregnant Talisa in front of Walder. And I don't think they got Talisa pregnant to cross out the Robb's will question. To that, Robb's will should have come up when *drumroll* Lyanna mormont idiotically suggested Jon for KITN. It didn't. So my guess is the only reason Talisa was pregnant to have a couple cute scenes and make the red wedding even more dramatic. By the way, being pregnant in the Middle Ages doesnt guarantee an heir. Let's just take a moment to recall the struggles of Jonny Rhys Meyers in Tudors, and those queens didn't even live in a military encampment and attend severely injured people. So even a pregnant Talisa is a weak excuse for the lack of a will. 

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I was wondering....is it possible to cretae a poll inside a thread? It would be interesting oto know which leak (assuming they are true, or even if some might not be) of s7 annoys people the most.

Mine would be all the plot that surrounds Cersei, I'd summarise it this way: "No dragons, but wights for Cersei"

As the decision is complex, we could vote up to three, for instance:

So candidates:

No dragons, but wights for Cersei +1

Larry and Carol are in love and have babies +1

Bran is not KIng at home

Jon and Dany in a sexboat +1

20 wise men in a wight hunt 

The wight exhibition

LF is creep but welcome at WF

-(to be completed with more leaks..)

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28 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

And I don't think they got Talisa pregnant to cross out the Robb's will question. To that, Robb's will should have come up when *drumroll* Lyanna mormont idiotically suggested Jon for KITN. It didn't.

Actually, exactly because Robb KNOWS that Talisa is pregnant, at the time in S3 it was logical that Robb didn't draw up a will. His wife, his queen was preggers, so an heir was on the way. No need to write a will to legitimize Jon and make him heir after him, after all. That was my point. That in S3 Talissa's pregnancy made it logical for there not to be a will at the time. But there not being a will causes that farce of a scene where Jon is "elected" KitN after proving himself to be quite worhtless in S6. Robb at least won every battle in his war. He needed no surprise-Vale-army to save his ass in the battlefield.

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22 hours ago, The Coconut God said:

@The Dragon Demands I have to confess I only skimmed your video and addressed a few of the larger points I thought you were trying to make (stunt casting and actor pandering). You can't really ask me to watch the whole three hours, pay attention, and make a point by point analysis. While I respect your effort, that is a bit presumptuous... :P

Well then - and I actually do mean this with politeness text can't convey - you should comment more thoroughly once you've watched the whole thing.

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24 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I was wondering....is it possible to cretae a poll inside a thread? It would be interesting oto know which leak (assuming they are true, or even if some might not be) of s7 annoys people the most.

Mine would be all the plot that surrounds Cersei, I'd summarise it this way: "No dragons, but wights for Cersei"

As the decision is complex, we could vote up to three, for instance:

So candidates:

No dragons, but wights for Cersei +1

Larry and Carol are in love and have babies +1

Bran is not KIng at home

Jon and Dany in a sexboat +1

20 wise men in a wight hunt 

The wight exhibition

LF is creep but welcome at WF

-(to be completed with more leaks..)

Well, the wight exhibition alraedy falls under "no dragons, but wights for Cersei" plot, right, so does 20 wise men in a wight hunt.

I'm willing to make a poll with a link, if you want to.

How about these "leaked plots"

  • No dragons, but wights for Cersei
  • Larry and Carol are in love and have babies
  • Bran is not King
  • Jon kneels to Dany for sex
  • Creepy LF plays "the prom Queen game" in Winterfell
  • Euron built a fleet of 1000 ships
  • NK gets to be dragonrider
  • Arya slaughters all the Frey men by herself
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7 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Well, the wight exhibition alraedy falls under "no dragons, but wights for Cersei" plot, right, so does 20 wise men in a wight hunt.

I'm willing to make a poll with a link, if you want to.

How about these "leaked plots"

  • No dragons, but wights for Cersei
  • Larry and Carol are in love and have babies
  • Bran is not King
  • Jon kneels to Dany for sex
  • Creepy LF plays "the prom Queen game" in Winterfell
  • Euron built a fleet of 1000 ships
  • NK gets to be dragonrider
  • Arya slaughters all the Frey men by herself

Yeah. Cool. I would rather change the Arya one to somethuNg g that emphasizes More that she only Kills males And maybe add that Jon kneels in a boat brfore sex?  (iirc he kneels many umes and thelast one is in the boat of love? I could be wrong).

 The rest is cool!

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54 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Actually, exactly because Robb KNOWS that Talisa is pregnant, at the time in S3 it was logical that Robb didn't draw up a will. His wife, his queen was preggers, so an heir was on the way. No need to write a will to legitimize Jon and make him heir after him, after all. That was my point. That in S3 Talissa's pregnancy made it logical for there not to be a will at the time. But there not being a will causes that farce of a scene where Jon is "elected" KitN after proving himself to be quite worhtless in S6. Robb at least won every battle in his war. He needed no surprise-Vale-army to save his ass in the battlefield.

The rest of my previous post was about why this argument isn't 100% valid. But moving past that, other than people who read the books or theories online, did the idea of a will or lack thereof occur to anybody? Probably not, because there wasn't a single mention of it. Not in season 3, not in season 6. So I still don't think the show gave Talisa a pregnancy to go around a problem they never included.

I mean that's kinda like saying the spice King sold citrus to Braavos in season 2 so Arya could land on oranges when she wolverines around in season 6. Nobody said anything about oranges and Braavos in season 2 and nobody said anything about oranges and the spice king in season 6. So am I supposed to believe the spice King was added so Arya could land on a soft surface in the middle of her nonsensical action sequence in season 6? 

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Quote

I think complaining about mischaracterization in an adaptation is a trap. A character doesn't need to be the same as the original to be good, it needs to be consistent and compelling. You can give a character a different plot and a different personality, and they can still be just as good, or better, or simply more suited for your adaptation.

I dislike this trap because it risks undermining the real criticism that the show justly deserves; you are criticizing a change at a level where it hasn't become a problem yet, and where you can be reasonably be countered, so your argument bogs down before you get to the real issues.

Drop what you're doing and watch my videos.

The ENTIRE POINT of them is that YOUR interpretation, personal interpretation of the TV show, is trying to come up with rationalizations or justifications that make sense, which they never thought of.

NO, not with "a grain of salt" -- it extends to the point that they say in commentaries "look at what a powerful player Theon is" while he's being tortured, until it becomes blatantly obvious they're describing the actors' ability to emote.

I read your posts in a sing-song voice:  "oh, we shouldn't judge, TV is different, and just because it's different doesn't mean it's bad."

We ARE NOT "book purists".  Even as TV fans, this was jut plain bad writing.

And the entire point I express in my videos is that it isn't even "this is a different, TV-continuity fictional character I dislike" but....dear god, it's just stunt-casting the actor.  There IS NO fictional character.

@sweetsunray  Painful as it is, I hope you do watch Season 7 - not "watch" to enjoy, but "watch" in order to gain more ammo to criticize it.

One of my major points is that the TV fanbase got so insulted by Benioff and Weiss that we stopped checking out their interviews or DVD commentaries....in which they actually got sloppy and admitted the embarrassing real reasons they did things.  Statements so bizarre they would destroy their careers, or at least severely harm them.

It's sort of like someone saying to Varys, "LIttlefinger offends me so much with his lies that I'm going to stop listening to anything he says"....not "heeding", but "listening"....meaning you can't "scrutinize" them.....for stupid mistakes to use against him later. 

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21 hours ago, The Coconut God said:

Take Dorne for example. The problem wasn't that they made Ellaria vengeful. The problem was the plotting and dialogue of that entire arc (with a bit of directing issues too, but those were also rooted in writing, since D&D relied too much on the fight scene with the Sand Snakes being cool and ultimately its set-up was ridiculous).

NO.

NO.

Blatantly no. 

You ASSUMED that.

Watch my longer video on Dorne (yeah it's a few hours long). 

The Dorne fight scene was bad because they put too LITTLE attention on producing it. 

It was an afterthought.  Terrible camera angles, filmed during the DAY.....all because D&D weren't paying attention to it.

You keep saying "the writing is at fault".

NO.  This is the OPPOSITE of "writing".  What do you specifically mean by that phrase, "writing"?  "Ideas for the fictional story?"

It's bad because, as they ADMIT in the Blu-ray commentary, "We reconceived Dorne to show off Indira Varma's acting talents". 

They DID NOT make "Ellaria" vengeful.  They didn't make Ellaria anything.  They just pushed Indira Varma into a position in which the actor yells a lot, to show off her emotive range. 

Please, I implore you, watch the videos and reassess what you think.

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1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

Well, the wight exhibition alraedy falls under "no dragons, but wights for Cersei" plot, right, so does 20 wise men in a wight hunt.

I'm willing to make a poll with a link, if you want to.

How about these "leaked plots"

  • No dragons, but wights for Cersei
  • Larry and Carol are in love and have babies
  • Bran is not King
  • Jon kneels to Dany for sex
  • Creepy LF plays "the prom Queen game" in Winterfell
  • Euron built a fleet of 1000 ships
  • NK gets to be dragonrider
  • Arya slaughters all the Frey men by herself

So many tough, awful choices. While Euron building a fleet of 1000 ships in about a week with no wood to be found is pretty miraculous, I think my vote would be for No dragons, but wights for Cersei.

Basically, anything involving the entire preposterous plot around Cheryl would get my vote - her awful Cenobite costumes that have somehow taken over Larry and the Kingsguard, the fact that she is running KL with no one seeming to care, and how she is having Dany appease her despite having an army 50 times as large and three flying fire airships.

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21 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

So many tough, awful choices. While Euron building a fleet of 1000 ships in about a week with no wood to be found is pretty miraculous, I think my vote would be for No dragons, but wights for Cersei.

Basically, anything involving the entire preposterous plot around Cheryl would get my vote - her awful Cenobite costumes that have somehow taken over Larry and the Kingsguard, the fact that she is running KL with no one seeming to care, and how she is having Dany appease her despite having an army 50 times as large and three flying fire airships.

She hasn't just taken over KL - she's basically in charge of the whole kingdom and somehow good at it. I guess in the past when people on these forums said that Cersei was "more complex" than her book counterpart, they just meant that everything involved in her story-line was "too difficult to understand".  

The amount of bullshit involved with Cersei now is ludicrous and it started the moment she blew up the sept like it was a controlled explosion. How exactly does a medieval ruler prevent her entire city from going up in flames when she just detonated what is effectively a napalm explosion in the middle of it? And because she did that, she's now Queen of the seven kingdoms?

I agree with you - It makes Euron's shipwright on the moon seem sensible.

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2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Well, the wight exhibition alraedy falls under "no dragons, but wights for Cersei" plot, right, so does 20 wise men in a wight hunt.

I'm willing to make a poll with a link, if you want to.

How about these "leaked plots"

  • No dragons, but wights for Cersei
  • Larry and Carol are in love and have babies
  • Bran is not King
  • Jon kneels to Dany for sex
  • Creepy LF plays "the prom Queen game" in Winterfell
  • Euron built a fleet of 1000 ships
  • NK gets to be dragonrider
  • Arya slaughters all the Frey men by herself

You forgot the Citadel storyline. Sam heals Jorah. He should get the nobel price for medicine. Gilly finds out that Rhaegar annuled his marriage from Elia and married Lyanna. That sounds almost good compared to the wight hunt and Larry and Cheyril having a baby :P

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6 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

This was mildly entertaining for a while but I'm clearly not book snobby enough. 

The beauty of the glossary is you don't even have to like the books to be able to see how much the show sucks.

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