Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

[Queen of Procrastination]

16 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

And there is no reason to ever talk about that particular episodes, even if we were allowed to talk about it. From what I read in the reports it is pretty much the worst episode so far in, well, pretty much everything.

I've stopped watching the show now, but for me it's hard for an Episode to be worse than Episode 5.6 However, I agree that it sounds like one of the worst written Episodes on the show. 

 

18 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

That is the thing. Do you guys know how it was with the leaks last year around? When did the first genuine leaks come? If that was around this time then it is not exactly unlikely that this is genuine.

Pretty much what @Cas Stark wrote. I can't recall the exact time, but I guess it was September/ October. The leaks started to appear and first few people believed them, because stuff like Cersei getting pregnant, Gilly finding Rhaegars annulment, etc. sounded like complete FanFiction. However, pictures of filming started to appear which alligned with the leaks like pics from Jon and Davos at Dragonstone and then WotW confirmed the leaks at some point.

8 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Sure, there are contradictions there, and before things are filmed they are all subject to change (and even then you can still move things around or cut them).

Were there (m)any false leaks out there last year?

There were a buch of false leakers on Reddit Free Folk. I think one even went through the process of making fake script pages, but I might have been wrong. Additionally D&D's writing is so bad that it's hard to distinct it from FanFiction. That's why I always wait for evidence. 

 

[SerProle]

20 minutes ago, Queen of Procrastination said:

I've stopped watching the show now, but for me it's hard for an Episode to be worse than Episode 5.6 However, I agree that it sounds like one of the worst written Episodes on the show. 

 

Pretty much what @Cas Stark wrote. I can't recall the exact time, but I guess it was September/ October. The leaks started to appear and first few people believed them, because stuff like Cersei getting pregnant, Gilly finding Rhaegars annulment, etc. sounded like complete FanFiction. However, pictures of filming started to appear which alligned with the leaks like pics from Jon and Davos at Dragonstone and then WotW confirmed the leaks at some point.

There were a buch of false leakers on Reddit Free Folk. I think one even went through the process of making fake script pages, but I might have been wrong. Additionally D&D's writing is so bad that it's hard to distinct it from FanFiction. That's why I always wait for evidence. 

 

Actually the script leaks turned out to be very accurate, including those pages. But it was their very badness that made many people doubt them lol. I can tell you that hearing/seeing some of those really terrible lines from those 'fake' scripts on the screen is bizarre, even after months of having time to come to terms with them lol. One of the biggest lines that made people absolutely convinced the script pages were fakes is in the latest leaked episode, of which I won't say more. But yes it really happened.

I personally suspected the leaks could be legit because they were terrible, so I wasn't surprised when it turned out D&D weren't the writing gods the leak doubters believed in. I also hoped that somehow the show would still make it work enough that maybe the stupid fanfic stuff would come off better on screen. Mostly that has not been true, I think this season is so bad that I find it difficult to watch and only do so because I host viewings for friends who don't have our very sweet HBO package deal lol.

[Queen of Procrastination]

2 minutes ago, SerProle said:

Actually the script leaks turned out to be very accurate, including those pages. But it was their very badness that made many people doubt them lol. I can tell you that hearing/seeing some of those really terrible lines from those 'fake' scripts on the screen is bizarre, even after months of having time to come to terms with them lol. One of the biggest lines that made people absolutely convinced the script pages were fakes is in the latest leaked episode, of which I won't say more. But yes it really happened.

I personally suspected the leaks could be legit because they were terrible, so I wasn't surprised when it turned out D&D weren't the writing gods the leak doubters believed in. I also hoped that somehow the show would still make it work enough that maybe the stupid fanfic stuff would come off better on screen. Mostly that has not been true, I think this season is so bad that I find it difficult to watch and only do so because I host viewings for friends who don't have our very sweet HBO package deal lol.

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't pay that close attention to all the leaks that came after the first one. 

Yeah the dialogue has become really bad. Imagine someone had leaked the script for Episode 5.10. Many people would have assumed it to be fake because they thought D&D would never write something as bad as the "bad pussy" line  

[Cas Stark]

5 minutes ago, SerProle said:

Actually the script leaks turned out to be very accurate, including those pages. But it was their very badness that made many people doubt them lol. I can tell you that hearing/seeing some of those really terrible lines from those 'fake' scripts on the screen is bizarre, even after months of having time to come to terms with them lol. One of the biggest lines that made people absolutely convinced the script pages were fakes is in the latest leaked episode, of which I won't say more. But yes it really happened.

I personally suspected the leaks could be legit because they were terrible, so I wasn't surprised when it turned out D&D weren't the writing gods the leak doubters believed in. I also hoped that somehow the show would still make it work enough that maybe the stupid fanfic stuff would come off better on screen. Mostly that has not been true, I think this season is so bad that I find it difficult to watch and only do so because I host viewings for friends who don't have our very sweet HBO package deal lol.

True.  The sheer badness of the script treatment leaks caused a lot of people, myself included, to think that they were fakes based on the leaks of plot points.  But, they weren't.  They were the actual, real dialogue.  Reading those treatments and knowing they are legit, it is an actual miracle that the show was ever good, or even that it now, still on occasion can muster up a good scene or two in terms of writing quality.  Those treatments were embarrassingly bad...which is why I'm not going to dismiss the embarrassingly bad season 8 leaks, some of them seem obviously crack pot, but who can say.

[SerProle]

10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

True.  The sheer badness of the script treatment leaks caused a lot of people, myself included, to think that they were fakes based on the leaks of plot points.  But, they weren't.  They were the actual, real dialogue.  Reading those treatments and knowing they are legit, it is an actual miracle that the show was ever good, or even that it now, still on occasion can muster up a good scene or two in terms of writing quality.  Those treatments were embarrassingly bad...which is why I'm not going to dismiss the embarrassingly bad season 8 leaks, some of them seem obviously crack pot, but who can say.

Yeah, I was totally shocked at how much I liked the Hound, Beric and Thoros stuff in the first episode, especially knowing what lay ahead from the leaks lol. Those script pages were so cringey, even I had my moments of doubt, but bad poosey is always good to keep in mind lol;)

And like you I definitely am giving some credence to the season 8 stuff, because there is no level of badness now that isn't at least plausible. 

There were people who speculated before this season aired that even if the leaks were legit, HBO clearly has people who browse the usual places and they would make changes based on the reactions to the leaks (not good lol). But that didn't seem to have happened. So, what does that mean for the final season? If these outlines are based on real plans, I no longer think that D&D will make changes just because a lot of people hate them. I just have this sense they are so very ready to be done with the whole thing no matter what.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

2 minutes ago, SerProle said:

Yeah, I was totally shocked at how much I liked the Hound, Beric and Thoros stuff in the first episode, especially knowing what lay ahead from the leaks lol. Those script pages were so cringey, even I had my moments of doubt, but bad poosey is always good to keep in mind lol;)

And like you I definitely am giving some credence to the season 8 stuff, because there is no level of badness now that isn't at least plausible. 

There were people who speculated before this season aired that even if the leaks were legit, HBO clearly has people who browse the usual places and they would make changes based on the reactions to the leaks (not good lol). But that didn't seem to have happened. So, what does that mean for the final season? If these outlines are based on real plans, I no longer think that D&D will make changes just because a lot of people hate them. I just have this sense they are so very ready to be done with the whole thing no matter what.

Yeah they want to hurry up and make the slavery fanfic show, because the world really needs THAT right now, like we dont have enough fucking problems.

[Lord Varys]

So we didn't exactly get detailed summaries of episodes or script pages that turned out to be complete nonsense last time?

That makes me reasonably positive that this is the real deal. I'm not sure that many people would be all that interested in writing up fake spoilers while season 7 isn't even over yet. I mean, who would go look for something like that at this point? You would have to have read all the leaks for the season still on the air to want to know how the story continues after that.

Man, am I glad when this is over. I really am. When watching the last episode I really wanted Arya to put me out of my misery, too. I'd even have sucked myself some dick-cocks (or cock-dicks) just to get it over with, if you get my meaning.

I doubt these people ever wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne but they sure as hell created something worthy of the Smiling Knight with this show.

And to think what potential this whole thing had. Even if you can't do George's vision complete justice it could have been a lot better than that. Even the ridiculous story they are telling could have been much better if there was better dialogue - stuff, grown-ups would say, perhaps? - but the story itself didn't need to be this bad, either.

I really think the allure this show had was that it had breathing, living characters in season 1, characters using George's dialogue or even not-so-bad-dialogue that fit into George's story. They did not behave like TV people usually do. But now they are even below good TV standards.

[SerProle]

10 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Yeah they want to hurry up and make the slavery fanfic show, because the world really needs THAT right now, like we dont have enough fucking problems.

The narcissistic mercenary awfulness of that whole project is beyond nauseating. But not surprising either, I worked in the entertainment industry and it is full of some of the worst people I have ever encountered. I don't know D&D personally, but I certainly don't give them a pass just because I used to really enjoy their show. I can only hope that the whole Emperor's New Clothes phenomenon which has enveloped GoT for several seasons now doesn't follow into this hideous new project. But I won't hold my breath. I don't have high expectations for the GoT spinoffs but anything HBO does with Planetos would be better than this proposal. 

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

I thought so too at first but when I thought about the evacuation south with a crippled boy with limited Weirnet connectivity, then it made more sense in show-logic. Maybe he wargs into something else (Nymeria?) and he's still in show via the Weirnet?

 

1 hour ago, Queen of Procrastination said:

Same. I only take leaks serious when there is supporting evidence like actual script pages or pictures from shooting. Alternatively when they have been confirmed by sites like WotW. Everyone could write something like this. I could see D&D writing the kind of stuff we see in these "leaks", but it could also be FanFiction. 

 

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

The show was never really comfortable with Bran, and treated his story and the magical aspects of it not very well, ever cutting down on his development and toning down the magical aspects of it. Their version of the greenseer thing definitely is not the story George intends to tell. They are using him as a plot device and not as a character. But Bran is no plot device in the books.

No kidding!  Well they solved that little conundrum of having to worry about development by simply erasing Bran altogether and just replaced him with the 3ER, a blank slate with 90s dial-up internet that just spouts things we already know and nothing useful for the war.  And this is what we've come to.  We can't dismiss anything for being too crazy, implausible or stupid.  I hesitate, though I understand the temptation, to then say this could be proof that it is true.  Queen is right.  Literally anyone could write this cobbling together a fanfic from the season 7 leaks and a smattering of book knowledge.  A plausible, but unverifiable hype train that will get some decent attention for it's "leaker," who could just as easily be trying to ride on the coattails of the accuracy of season 7 leaks.  Just because fake leaks (I think?) came out after the fact this season, could also mean someone is just trying to get a jump on the hype since there's so much time before filming actually starts.         

[Lord Varys]

Ah, well, would

Spoiler

any fan ever come up with the idea Bran dying? And if so, before the final battle? I never thought Bran might die. Not return from the cave, sure, but I never, ever thought he of all people could die.

And then stuff like Arya suddenly going back to killing Cersei. That is the kind of thing even some fan fiction wouldn't write. But the show really has a tendency to go back to old plots that were basically abandoned. Just as they pulled out the Tullys out of their asses last season, was it? It's the same way in that outline. Edmure is suddenly back again, with the Tullys besieging Riverrun again.

Also the Golden Company plot line. Why should they want to take Storm's End? That only makes sense in this kind of garbled caricature of the book stories they are writing. It is consistent with the way they write.

Real fan fiction would most likely be, in parts, better written insofar as character motivation goes, and worse written in part because certain characters are favored or treated badly due to irrational preferences. 

But I don't see they do any character justice there, treating much everyone like shit.

Spoiler

And especially the 'pregnant Dany plot line' very much resonates with them. Of course, some woman in the first, what, two weeks of her pregnancy would be completely useless as a war leader, general, or person discussing strategy.

Sure, when she is about to give birth she could not possibly ride a dragon, but not exactly in the beginning of that phase.

But we also have Cersei going to not drink wine next episode (due to her pregnancy) and Tyrion figuring out that she is pregnant because of that.

It is the way they treat female characters. That all feels very genuine.

[Jaehaerys Stark]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Has anybody read any leaks concerning season 8? And if so, care to comment on that? I'm not sure what to make of that stuff. A lot of the things there sound like things they would do...

I found a youtube channel a couple days ago that had only been up a week and only videos uploaded were the season 8 leaks.  It covered the first 4 episodes. All of it seemed legit except for where they reveal that

Bran gets killed while warging into Rhaegal for an epic Rhaegal vs Zombie Viserion scene. I ca't see that happening.  I feel like Bran is way more important than to die like that.  He either goes on as the 3 eyed raven, r becomes the NK.  I don't see him dying...

Oddly enough, I went back yesterday to get the link for the channel, and it's gone...

[The Bard of Banefort]

After the first lads leak, but before the emergence of lads2, someone made a compilation of alleged leaks on reddit. As you can see, most of them are false:
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/5kj5he/current_leaker_round_up/

The only leaker who got a few things right was this one, and even he was still wrong about other things:

http://imgur.com/a/YZ4uF

 

[Suzanna Stormborn]

47 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Ah, well, would

  Reveal hidden contents

any fan ever come up with the idea Bran dying? And if so, before the final battle? I never thought Bran might die. Not return from the cave, sure, but I never, ever thought he of all people could die.

And then stuff like Arya suddenly going back to killing Cersei. That is the kind of thing even some fan fiction wouldn't write. But the show really has a tendency to go back to old plots that were basically abandoned. Just as they pulled out the Tullys out of their asses last season, was it? It's the same way in that outline. Edmure is suddenly back again, with the Tullys besieging Riverrun again.

Also the Golden Company plot line. Why should they want to take Storm's End? That only makes sense in this kind of garbled caricature of the book stories they are writing. It is consistent with the way they write.

Real fan fiction would most likely be, in parts, better written insofar as character motivation goes, and worse written in part because certain characters are favored or treated badly due to irrational preferences. 

But I don't see they do any character justice there, treating much everyone like shit.

  Reveal hidden contents

And especially the 'pregnant Dany plot line' very much resonates with them. Of course, some woman in the first, what, two weeks of her pregnancy would be completely useless as a war leader, general, or person discussing strategy.

Sure, when she is about to give birth she could not possibly ride a dragon, but not exactly in the beginning of that phase.

But we also have Cersei going to not drink wine next episode (due to her pregnancy) and Tyrion figuring out that she is pregnant because of that.

It is the way they treat female characters. That all feels very genuine.

OMFG I can't believe that!!! I havent been reading any leaks, only whats posted on here, but that's nuts.  I mean what is the point of all the time spent making Bran 3ER just to kill him off during his first real use of his power. ( i mean involving the wars of Westeros) ugh...... you think this is Martin's plan or just D&D madness?

[Cas Stark]

Some stuff doesn't really qualify as leaks at this point?  It seems pretty obvious that Jon and Dany are going to have a child together, what else is the point of a romantic relationship between the two?  It makes it more likely that one of them will die, because the two of them 'breaking the wheel' to heal Westeros while raising their family...not going to happen.

Same Cersei, even without leaks, its a safe bet that she's not having another living child because that would totally change her trajectory and then her brother would never leave her for any reason.  

I have no idea how many false leaks there were because I only have seen them once they popped up on reddit and people had already done some analyzing.

[Lord Varys]

45 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

I found a youtube channel a couple days ago that had only been up a week and only videos uploaded were the season 8 leaks.  It covered the first 4 episodes. All of it seemed legit except for where they reveal that

  Reveal hidden contents

Bran gets killed while warging into Rhaegal for an epic Rhaegal vs Zombie Viserion scene. I ca't see that happening.  I feel like Bran is way more important than to die like that.  He either goes on as the 3 eyed raven, r becomes the NK.  I don't see him dying...

Oddly enough, I went back yesterday to get the link for the channel, and it's gone...

What did you learn about the fourth episode? I only found alleged leaks on the three episodes. And I just used google to get that.

Spoiler

Plot development there goes to the Neck, Cersei's wedding, Arya hitting the road again, etc. I'd be interested in learning how this travesty is supposed to continue.

 

24 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Some stuff doesn't really qualify as leaks at this point?  It seems pretty obvious that Jon and Dany are going to have a child together, what else is the point of a romantic relationship between the two?  It makes it more likely that one of them will die, because the two of them 'breaking the wheel' to heal Westeros while raising their family...not going to happen.

Why not? Honestly, if the vibe we get from the leaks is true it is not that unlikely they will both survive. After all, there has to be some good or reasonably good ending for some people, right? And they seem to be killing all the other people who might get a good ending.

But then, I still think Jon won't kill the Dark Lord and simply walk away from that. By the way, I'm beginning to hate that guy. He just stands around, saying nothing all the time. That's neither very interesting nor particularly scary. In fact, not even the wights are scary.

I mean, George's Others can talk. We know that. That means if they show up in the books they will be real characters and have some sort of personality...

39 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

After the first lads leak, but before the emergence of lads2, someone made a compilation of alleged leaks on reddit. As you can see, most of them are false:
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/5kj5he/current_leaker_round_up/

The only leaker who got a few things right was this one, and even he was still wrong about other things:

http://imgur.com/a/YZ4uF

I'm reading up on those a little bit. That one isn't all that accurate on many details but gets a lot of scenes correct still. One wonders whether they actually tried to make more sense back then, before they decided to scrap a lot of scenes for various reasons. The amount of crucial plot points they got is striking.

[Zorral]

I have been wondering for years what the point of the NK and wws is.  What does he plan to do with the 7 kingdoms once he has them? and nothing more for the WWs to eat?  And in any case what have tyhey been eating all these centuries.  Zombies = always stupid and no point.

[sweetsunray]

5 hours ago, Queen of Procrastination said:

Same. I only take leaks serious when there is supporting evidence like actual script pages or pictures from shooting. Alternatively when they have been confirmed by sites like WotW. Everyone could write something like this. I could see D&D writing the kind of stuff we see in these "leaks", but it could also be FanFiction.

Agreed with this. At the moment I considered the claims S8 alleged leaks out there (on youtube) as fanfiction. Several stuff was just plain boring of who is where, and there were horrible inconsistencies in between claims. Allegedly HR dies in epi 2 in a battle with wights at WF, then he's with Jon at Greywater Watch and saying he'll not leave GW for he doesn't care about living anymore. It read mostly as fanfic based on the fanficcy show, like someone who absolutely doesn't know books at all.

I have serious issues with how the show deviates from the books in many ways and insert fanfic fan-service as filler before getting to the end. But you can notice the merging of characters and expected book plots into certain characters: plotzee stuff. And there certainly are dialogues that in a meta-sense have references to book story in a type of annoying easter-egg way. There is some mismatched skeleton left of book story in S7 and foreshadowing future skeleton of it. I find not even a skeleton in the alleged S8 leaks.

[alienarea]

Just read the supposedly leaked scripts for Season 8 Episode 1-3. They're bad enough to be true and could provide visually amazing scenes.

[The Bard of Banefort]

If we're talking about the pastebin leaks, this guy's been posting links to them all: https://www.reddit.com/user/Kylaspikkel

During the HBO leak from a few weeks ago, there was also an alleged email leak (that doesn't match the other outlines) that caught my attention: https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/6qtq74/season_8_possible_leaks_lets_discuss/?sort=new

This is most likely fake, although the mention of Empress is suspicious. I hadn't even heard about that show, nor had I seen anyone else talking about it, so it would be a pretty specific detail for a fake leaker to include. 

[sweetsunray]

1 hour ago, alienarea said:

Just read the supposedly leaked scripts for Season 8 Episode 1-3. They're bad enough to be true and could provide visually amazing scenes.

There are 3 versions of alleged leaks for S8.

A few days ago I saw the alleged leaks that @Jaehaerys Stark referred to, and went up to epi 4. It was mostly Jonerys fanfic and lots of tactical stuff moving here and there, on a level so boring and nonsensical with set-ups that have been seeded by D&D themselves even in S7 (as in completely ignoring them, because the "leaker" can't notice them, because he's not a book reader). He claimed to have scripts, but gave no story how he came by them. The stuff of the first 2 episodes has been in existence for at least 2 weeks now, so can be traced back to early August or late July, when at the time HBO news indicated that scripts weren't even done yet. So either that person behind the youtube channel copied them and expanded his own fanfiction up to epi 4, or it's the same person who more than likely invented the first 2 alleged scripts on what he knew from S7 finale summaries.

Spoiler

According to these Bran and Meera would die in epi 2, while Bran wargs Rhaegal during battle with army of the dead at WF, followed by tactical retreatment and Jon ordering everyone to split to different locations - Sansa + Gendry to Eyrie, Jaime + Brienne to RR with Edmure, Pregnant Dany by herself to Dragonstone with less forces and captured by Cersei who's married to Euron. And Theon to Pyke.

Then there are the allegedly leaks by Im TheAmazingCat. She gives the backstory on how she came by them, what she did to try and verify it. Then she reads the "leaks": which are allegedly emails about discussions of the plot for S8, and what George insisted on. So it's a summary of show-endgame plot points and she discusses them and gives her opinion on whether this might be true or not.  I hates most of the points precious, and so does the channel owner, but she presents a reasonable case for why they might be true (for the show).

Spoiler

According to the material she received, Dany dies early on in S8. D&D wanted to kill off Bran but allegedly George insisted they'd keep him alive, while R&D insisted on D&D killing off someone major, and they decided on Dany dying. There's a bit about Arya taking Jaime's face and chopping of her hand, in order to kill Cersei, but Arya is murdered by Jaime. Jon would end up blinded in battle and loses a hand and retreats to the wildling area, refusing the throne. And D&D allegedly had a choice between making Westeros a democracy or give the throne to Gendry. They went for a democratic monarchy, with Tyrion and Sansa as King and Queen. I can see Cogman be proudly grinning over this if this is true

In her comment section there's an Eyes of Your Eyes posting "leaks for the first 5 episodes" going in much more detail, fitting in some respects and in others contradicting it. But apparently there are 2 versions of it, because he posted it twice and used different location names. It seems a combo of one plot-point that the channel discusses (and would be major if true), and some of the alleged leaks of first two epis that have been around for several weeks now. He or she is not sharing a reconstruction on how he came to these. That's always fishy. 

So, the fake leak game is on already. ETA: previous years, before the S7 leaks of lads1, we could easily dismiss fake leaks by their timing - way too early. Nobody expected accurate leaks before filming started of S7, because they wer enever accurate. On top of that lads1 claimed he had it from scripts but was describing feelings and internal thoughts, rather tan actions and dialogue. Turns out now that D&D indeed write their scripts that way. Ths is the last time that fake leakers can have their ballgame, and they know their fake leaks will be taken far more seriously with the news about hacks, and lads1. Some of the fake leakers are easy to pick out, because they refuse to give backstory on how they came by it. Others craft digitial stuff to make for a believable backstory. And some stuff seems legit because it contains some popular show/book theory or has reasonably expected plot points from S7 finale leaked spoilers.

If I say that there will be an epic fight between Jon and NK, that Jon will find out his parentage and it causes issues between Dany and Jon (either incest or throne), that Jaime will be joining the fight alongside Brienne, and the GC arrives in Westeros for Cersei then everythign else I invent with that can be made out to be a "leak", and has enough in there to convince people. If I then also put in some ship for Sansa then it'll gain very vocal defenders, no matter how insane it is as end-game.

So, I'm skeptical of any of these alleged leaks, and not until I see independent verification from sources such as tWotW and filming reports will I consider an alleged leak legit.