Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

[SeanF]

On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 7:50 AM, Regular John Umber said:

 

 

7 hours ago, Wight nr 121 said:

So forgive me for writing something that many others have surely commented on, but I just have to get it out. I just can't get over how incredibly stupid (on a multitude of levels) the whole wight hunt/armistice "negotiations" plotlines were. Just to take one point. After Daenerys' crushing victory over the Lannister/Tarly forces close to King's Landing (which ends with the remaining Lannister/Tarly forces actually pledging to fight for her), Cersei is in a desperate military situation - she and Jaime themselves seem to aknowledge as much. This is the moment for Daenerys to deliver the final blow and attack KL. It's the only thing that makes sense - militarily, politically, even from a humanitarian perspective (try to end the war with Cersei now instead of having it drag on and on and on). And it would certainly make sense from the perspective of becoming able to deal more efficiently with the threat from beyond the wall - after delivering the final blow to Cersei, Dany and Jon could focus on that threat without having to worry about being stabbed in the back, as they, entireley precictable, will have to worry about now. But instead of at least TRYING to take KL, those characters who we are supposed to root for instead act in almost the dumbest and most incompetent manner which it is possible to imagine - namely, they apparently cease fighting the Lannisters while Jon and his merry company go on the wight hunt. Now, even if I buy the premise that this hunt makes any sense in itself (it does not), WHY NOT AT LEAST TRY TO TAKE, OR AT LEAST BESIEGE, KINGS'S LANDING WHILE THE HUNT IS CARRIED OUT (as a matter of fact, the whole wight hunt should have taken months to conduct), making Cersei's situation even more desperate. Why give her (without getting anything in return) the time to recuperate and plot a military comeback? Why? Why? Why?

The execution of the whole wight hunt plotline is, of course, as stupid as it gets. It is so stupid on so may levels - the whole idea of it, that it is the King in the North himself which goes on the hunt, Gendry's run, the conveniently placed island, Dany's rescue operation on her Boeing Dragons, the Benjen deux ex machina twist, that they don't wear any hats (I wish I could take D and D out trekking in the mountains on a cold winter day here in Norway, and they would have to be without hats) etc, etc etc.

As a matter of fact, the whole plot is so stupid that it is hard not to assume that D and D has taken note of some of the criticism of earlier seasons, and actually decided to caricature their own show (this is not the case, of course, they probably still take their own story super-seriously or something). So I just have to conclude, as many have done in other threads, that all the main characters are so stupid and incompetent that the Night's King is the only one which it makes any sense to root for at this point.

It seems that Dany is reluctant to storm/besiege Kings Landiing, for fear of causing huge casualties among the civilian population.  Though it would seem to me, following her big victory over the Lannisters, that she could besiege the city, and then offer to lift the siege and take no reprisals, if someone brought her Cersei's head.  I can't imagine many people would wish to fight to the bitter end for someone who blew up the Great Sept and the surrounding neighbourhood.

I agree the wight hunt is a bit absurd.  A huge cost for a tiny return.

[Queen of Procrastination]

So a couple of pages ago someone asked if there were no negative reviews (by mainstream) critics of the Season 7 finale. While many of them seem to have been won over by the episode, I also found some negative voices:

https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-season-7-episode-7

Quote

But it is difficult to imagine nearly every character in Game of Thrones, as previously established, not being entirely embarrassed by themselves in this season's finale. The Hound, who once harbored his childhood traumas with a quiet fury, marching up to his zombie brother and announcing their conflict like a reality TV contestant to every lord who can hear it. Tyrion, who trusted his sister only in her ability to commit atrocities, believing her bizarre pivot into humanitarianism, and questioning no further. Theon begging for forgiveness from Jon only to be absolved and told that he is yet another heir to Ned Stark, only days after the King in the North threatened to kill him for his disloyalty. Littlefinger, who has never taken a foolish step, trying to coerce Sansa into believing that Arya wants to be the Lady of Winterfell, the one role she has rejected above all others.

 

That’s the problem with Game of Thrones now, the one it won’t survive. The one where fans are forced to believe that despite all of its careful, intricately built narrative palaces of politics and history and personal struggle, that all of that careful architecture has to dissolve into dust, like a wight stabbed with dragonglass. That none of it can matter, because something something, because the terrible urgency of the story tells us to look somewhere else. Look there, because no one can bear you looking in another direction, because the story cannot bear it either.

http://theweek.com/articles/721097/why-game-thrones-become-incoherent

Quote

The trouble with this black box maneuver — of which the show has grown overfond — isn't just that it's a cheat that excuses the writers from tackling the hard transitions that make a series great. In fact, the only thing worse than crucial Conversations That Must Have Happened is the presumption that otherwise no one talks to each other offscreen. I'm sorry, but there's no way that Jaime hasn't turned to Cersei when they're in bed and said, "Hey, you've been kinda cagey about your plans with this Euron guy. You keep talking about marrying him. What gives?" There's no way Sansa and Arya and Bran haven't sat at the dinner table and talked — however awkwardly — about things.

 

 

[Le Cygne]

Another:

But the non-literal version of the question still stands: Is “Game of Thrones” about dragons, spectacle and huge battles — or is it still about people? At times this past season, it was hard to tell.

What was real and what wasn’t in the war between the Stark sisters? Who knows? Why were Cersei’s lies at the truce conference ultimately deflating? Because, as the show’s giants and dragons have flattened walls and armies, its wars have begun to flatten its character portraits...

The compression down to seven episodes — from past seasons of 10 — produced a number of storytelling hiccups. Fans and critics weren’t parsing travel times in order to pedantically nitpick: Their concerns were valid. Slapdash shortcuts and sloppy turns undercut the show’s psychological power, its ability to put you inside a character’s emotions, no matter how fantastic the circumstances. The scenes most indelible in the mind are often the cheapest: Conversations, confrontations, revelations that change a relationship forever...

We’re used to big things happening on “Game of Thrones,” but I care more about who these things happen to.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/reviews/game-of-thrones-season-7-finale-review-1202540715/

And another:

Whereas one of the historically defining characteristics of this story was its sometimes too leisurely sprawl, characters and story lines now zoom toward one another with breakneck speed, like they’re all being sucked into the same final-chapter black hole...

My disappointment in missing out on this new incarnation of Cersei was compounded by basic confusion about her schemes: What did she gain by the whole performance — was it just to lull Dany & Co. into complacency? Won’t they figure out real quick that she is not, in fact, sending troops to the North? Did that poor wight make any difference in her plans, or was the whole point of that story line really as pointless as it seemed last week?...

If the sisters were in on the shared secret, who were they play-acting those hostile scenes for? And why go to all the trouble just to off Littlefinger — a character who hasn’t done much more than glower and skulk for ages now, and could have easily been dispatched at any time?

The worst-case scenario I can imagine for season eight is this dynamic, writ large: that we get to the end of nearly 80 hours of GOT and emerge scratching our heads, thinking, “What was all that for?”

http://www.vulture.com/2017/08/game-of-thrones-season-seven-finale-recap-the-dragon-and-the-wolf.html

And another:

The final episode of this extremely busy season of “Game of Thrones” gave us: one entirely predictable death, one revelation that almost every viewer already knew, one aunt-nephew incest scene and one ice dragon that caused some serious damage...

Cersei then returns with surprising news — she will commit her troops to the great battle in the North. Or so she says … But why would we ever take Cersei at her word?... Jaime is somehow shocked at Cersei’s change of heart...

Back in the Dragonpit, Jon and Daenerys are dealing with the aftermath of the apparent failed negotiation. “No one is less happy about this than I am,” Jon says in a quote that applies to him pretty much all the time...

Jon and Daenerys consummate their… ew... If you’re looking for a way to make a sex scene between two objectively gorgeous people pretty nauseating, having a teenager do a voiceover that confirms the aunt-nephew relationship of the characters that are rolling around naked is a solid effort.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/08/28/game-of-thrones-recap-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-and-the-inescapable-family-ties/

[Le Cygne]

And another:

But while Sunday’s very busy episode had plenty of enjoyable moments and blue fire-fueled spectacle, and effectively set up next season’s culminating clashes of the living, the dead and the old venal forces of cyclical destruction, it didn’t offer much in the way of surprise. Indeed, the finale largely checked off boxes that have been broadly telegraphed throughout the season...

As recently as two weeks ago, I hung on to the belief that Daenerys and Jon, despite their clear, mutual attraction, would avoid the interbreeding inclinations of their Lannister rivals and remain platonic allies... Wouldn’t the more surprising move be to have two powerful, attractive leaders, who we’re told represent a new way forward in Westeros, decide that the fate of the world was too important to complicate with romance?

I guess things could go that way eventually, but that’s not where they sit now, which I admit feels kind of gross. I know such tendencies are well established in Westeros and in the Targaryen family, specifically (and in real-life royal dynasties from centuries past). But as a story that began with crimes committed to conceal incest nears its conclusion, are we now really supposed to be rooting for incest?...

If the high-octane battles, dragon scenes and other magical happenings give “Game of Thrones” its dazzle, it’s the recognizable human impulses, frailties and behaviors in characters we’ve come to know well that give it its emotional power. For much of this season, however, it felt as if the story was driving the characters instead of the other way around.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/arts/television/game-of-thrones-season-7-finale-a-night-for-family-reunions.html

[The Bard of Banefort]

14 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

 

 

54 minutes ago, Queen of Procrastination said:

So a couple of pages ago someone asked if there were no negative reviews (by mainstream) critics of the Season 7 finale. While many of them seem to have been won over by the episode, I also found some negative voices:

https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-season-7-episode-7

http://theweek.com/articles/721097/why-game-thrones-become-incoherent

 

 

Thanks, guys!

 

[Le Cygne]

There was a deleted scene in the episode 7 where Sandra goes to Bran:

It’s clear after Sansa turns the tables on Littlefinger that she has had some sort of conversation with Bran, but we don’t get to see it. When did it take place?

We actually did a scene that clearly got cut, a short scene with Sansa where she knocks on Bran’s door and says, “I need your help,” or something along those lines. So basically, as far as I know, the story was that it suddenly occurred to Sansa that she had a huge CCTV department at her discretion and it might be a good idea to check with him first before she guts her own sister. So she goes to Bran, and Bran tells her everything she needs to know, and she’s like, “Oh, s—.”

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-finale-cut-scene-1202541941/

He talks about it here, too:

There was actually a scene that was meant to be in the last episode but didn’t make it in where Sansa came to Bran’s chambers and said, “Bran, I need your help,” and so the idea was that Sansa came to him just to fact-check, like, “before I kill my sister, can you confirm that’s what’s going on?”

What an amazing scene. That would have been helpful.

I’m not sure why that didn’t make it in — I’m not even sure if I’m supposed to be saying this honestly! Anyway, Bran is so dead set on his ultimate destiny, which I think is something to do with those White Walkers, that all this sort of petty squabbling around him isn’t bothering him that much until someone says, “oh, can you look this up?”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/08/29/we-talked-to-isaac-hempstead-wright-and-understand-brans-three-eyed-raven-powers-a-lot-better-now/

[Suzanna Stormborn]

7 hours ago, blacktea79 said:

That. Without the books as a backgroud source to ground the story, it all went dumber and dumber down the line, the only thing that could possibly be said about the storyline now is that it is as stupid as you can get within this particular setting. All the characters have become caricatures of their former selves. 

I took issues with the show since when they decided to change the reason for Robb's wedding (the wrong choiche for the wrong reasons versus the wrong choice for the right reasons), which IMHO was the beginning of the dumbing down of the show, but now it makes my brain bleed. 

Which is why, on the whole, even if I think improbable that the season 8 "leaks" are genuine, so far, I am still expecting something very, very similar from the showrunners. They just seem to repeatedly hit the bottom of the stupidity well, and still they dig for more. 

I agree that is where the show took their turn for the worst and never came back from it. Talisa was a VERY Stupid character and made Robb look so STUPID, then it just got worse and worse and here we are.

The more I think about the wight hunt the madder I get. mainly because it is literally all Tyrions fault that The Wall just fell.  If they had none of them ever gone up there the NK would never have gotten a dragon.......it also makes you wonder what exactly was Blue Darth Mal's plan?

What was his plan to bring down the Wall had Tyrion/Jon/Dany not handed him a dragon on a silver platter? Because the way his subordinate WW handed him that ice spear, it seemed like they already had it all planned out (also they obviously HAD MILES OF CHAIN ALREADY FORGED)--so how did they know a dragon was on the way?

 

 

[Tijgy]

55 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

I agree that is where the show took their turn for the worst and never came back from it. Talisa was a VERY Stupid character and made Robb look so STUPID, then it just got worse and worse and here we are.

 

Those two had at least chemistry and looked at least they were in love (even love was actually not the reason why Robb married in the books)

Or maybe this is just my Richard Madden Crush speaking 

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

56 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

I agree that is where the show took their turn for the worst and never came back from it. Talisa was a VERY Stupid character and made Robb look so STUPID, then it just got worse and worse and here we are.

The more I think about the wight hunt the madder I get. mainly because it is literally all Tyrions fault that The Wall just fell.  If they had none of them ever gone up there the NK would never have gotten a dragon.......it also makes you wonder what exactly was Blue Darth Mal's plan?

What was his plan to bring down the Wall had Tyrion/Jon/Dany not handed him a dragon on a silver platter? Because the way his subordinate WW handed him that ice spear, it seemed like they already had it all planned out (also they obviously HAD MILES OF CHAIN ALREADY FORGED)--so how did they know a dragon was on the way?

 

 

The completely reversed the theme of the story. GRRM wrote a story about people too worried about power struggles and petty greivances and ignores the real threat that is lurking, while a few faithful tries to get them to wake up and see the real threat.

D&D turned it into a story where the people who worried about the threat up north are chicken littles who should have just ignored it like everyone else. That if  everyone just ignored the WW then everything would have been fine because the threat can't come south, and the people who are paranoid about the threat are responsible for empowering the threat to become real.

[Tijgy]

Maybe they just thought a girl who nurses Robb and who is the greatgranddaughter from someone of the East (Maggy) => Talisa : a nurse from Volantis 

[BalerionTheCat]

2 hours ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

D&D turned it into a story where the people who worried about the threat up north are chicken littles who should have just ignored it like everyone else. That if  everyone just ignored the WW then everything would have been fine because the threat can't come south, and the people who are paranoid about the threat are responsible for empowering the threat to become real.

Yes indeed. It reminds me of last season Bran's blunder with Bloodraven, Hodor and the Children's death. If Bran is now so good, he should have sent a raven to Jon with a better plan or warning. Rather than just digging who is Jon's father. Jon and Tyrion were no better. Jon showed an impressive uprightness. But most of their decisions were poor or doing more harm than good. Just like last year when Tyrion was more Daenerys' fool than Daenerys' Hand. And Jon the worst Battle commander and leader of Westeros.

[blacktea79]

2 hours ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

I agree that is where the show took their turn for the worst and never came back from it. Talisa was a VERY Stupid character and made Robb look so STUPID, then it just got worse and worse and here we are.

The more I think about the wight hunt the madder I get. mainly because it is literally all Tyrions fault that The Wall just fell.  If they had none of them ever gone up there the NK would never have gotten a dragon.......it also makes you wonder what exactly was Blue Darth Mal's plan?

Because the way his subordinate WW handed him that ice spear, it seemed like they already had it all planned out (also they obviously HAD MILES OF CHAIN ALREADY FORGED)--so how did they know a dragon was on the way?

 

 

1 hour ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

The completely reversed the theme of the story. GRRM wrote a story about people too worried about power struggles and petty greivances and ignores the real threat that is lurking, while a few faithful tries to get them to wake up and see the real threat.

D&D turned it into a story where the people who worried about the threat up north are chicken littles who should have just ignored it like everyone else. That if  everyone just ignored the WW then everything would have been fine because the threat can't come south, and the people who are paranoid about the threat are responsible for empowering the threat to become real.

 

Yes. The WW should be (at least IMO) some sort of mysterious, almost mystical doom that lurks in the winter, a force of nature that may destroy humanity, and that should (or maybe not) force humanity to band together, leaving aside petty conflicts. This season presented some already-seen mindless slow-moving zombie army, lead by a guy that is been shown to have some kind of personal will, is a leader, has an agenda, and yet, without the dragon (kindly provided by genius Tyrion and his demented plan), we have no idea on how he would have crossed south of the Wall.

For what we know, he did not have a plan. For what the show tells us, they were just waiting for some kind of occasion. Jon saw them, got scared, asked Dany for help, and they created the condition for the invasion. There is just no sense of destiny, no sense of history repeating itself, no sense of sense. The WW have become the same stale underdeveloped baddies from a million of other movies-series, and this is maddening. And boring.

And the characters do random things, changing personality depending on what needs to happen next.

 

1 hour ago, Tijgy said:

Those two had at least chemistry and looked at least they were in love (even love was actually not the reason why Robb married in the books)

Or maybe this is just my Richard Madden Crush speaking 

Yeah , at least their scenes looked good. Jon in the boat just went *knock knock, he looked like he had a very bad case of gastric flu, and - jump to the sex scene. Even during the sex he looked mildly disturbed. 

On a side note, this has been the trick the entire season: if a dialogue is difficult to write, they skip it and jump to the aftermath. The same goes with Tyrion-Cercei. I would like to know what Cercei could have said that convinced Tyrion that she could be trusted. But I suspect that it was an impossible dialogue to write, so they skipped it. 

[Wight nr 121]

6 hours ago, SeanF said:

 

It seems that Dany is reluctant to storm/besiege Kings Landiing, for fear of causing huge casualties among the civilian population.  Though it would seem to me, following her big victory over the Lannisters, that she could besiege the city, and then offer to lift the siege and take no reprisals, if someone brought her Cersei's head.  I can't imagine many people would wish to fight to the bitter end for someone who blew up the Great Sept and the surrounding neighbourhood.

I agree the wight hunt is a bit absurd.  A huge cost for a tiny return.

That is one tactic she could attempt. My main point is that it makes zero sense that she makes no attempt at all (as far as we as viewers are informed, at least) to follow up the huge victory over the Lannister/Tarly forces. She just decides that she has to wait for the outcome of the  absurd wight hunt - even if there is no reason why she cannot continue military operations in parallell with this expedition. Her original plan was to lay siege to King's Landing, and after her battlefield win, she certainly has the opportunity to do just that.

It is fine that she wants to minimize civilian casualties (that it is necessarily so much better for the civilians that KL is besieged instead of stormed, does not, however, seem that obvious to me, but let that be as it may). But if she is so concerned about the civilian population (or her own army, for that matter), why on earth does she, during the battle in episode 4, choose to focus her dragon's firepower ON THE FOOD SUPPLIES??? She is  about to capture those precious, precious food supplies, and she chooses TO BURN THEM? What was the point of that? (If I miss something here, by all means enlighten me). After having captured those food supplies, she could bring them with her to the walls of KL, offering to feed the city if it capitulates. That would not be an ideal situation for a small Lannister force to be in. But instead she chooses to burn the supplies - or that is what the incredibly lazy or inept writers of this show have her do.

I don't understand how they manage to write a story which makes so little sense in so many different ways. It is beyond me.

[Meera of Tarth]

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PREPARED?

3...2...1...GO

http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-16-times-jaime-lannister-should-have-dumped-cersei-2017-8

 

[Liver and Onions]

Nice to see some online reviews are finally getting what we've been complaining about. (Teleporting and time compression being "pedantic nitpicks" notwithstanding. What's the Mystery Science Theater quote? "Space has warped and time is bendable!"

As for Jon's "real" name, I still hold out futile hope that in the books, his real name is actually Jon- Rhaegar leaves to handle the rebellion, and he tells Lyanna to name the baby Visenya. Lyanna says, "what if it's a boy?" Rhaegar says, "Well, name it Viserys.... oh wait, that's my kid brother.... you know what? Jon Connington's a good pal. Throw him a bone and name the kid after him. Kinda like great-grandpa Aegon did with his kid, naming him after Ser Duncan the Tall. Anyhoo, rebellion to quash. Best of luck!"

And then when Ned gets the kid, he's able to tell everyone he named his bastard after Jon Arryn... and they were NONE the wiser!  

 

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PREPARED?

3...2...1...GO

http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-16-times-jaime-lannister-should-have-dumped-cersei-2017-8

Perfect!

From another article, same site:

The seventh season of “Game of Thrones” hasn’t been easy to watch...

In the shortened seventh season... the episodes jump from place to place, often skipping over long periods of travel. But that's not the biggest problem. The problem is every other choice the writers have made, from characters to plot to dialogue. 

The jarring pacing... This new storytelling tactic was abrupt, and it doesn't make sense for the show when it could have easily fit in with some gradual pacing changes...

The writers are obsessed with saving time, but actually waste a lot of it. There are multiple scenes in season seven that show a character who is definitely not going to die almost dying...

We never knew what would happen next, but it always made sense. We still never know what will happen, but now a lot of it makes no sense...

They're writing around big events, not leading to them... They knowingly went out into a battle they could not win with no way out, simply to capture a wight to bring to Queen Cersei to convince her that the Night King and his army are real...

There's also a character problem... In season seven, multiple characters have shown inconsistency in their choices that erases arcs they've had throughout the series, and things we already know about them...

Arya Stark... Sansa Stark... You'd think these two would've sat down and had a long dinner to discuss their experiences since they were separated...

http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-season-seven-everything-that-doesnt-make-sense-2017-8/

[blacktea79]

1 hour ago, Wight nr 121 said:

That is one tactic she could attempt. My main point is that it makes zero sense that she makes no attempt at all (as far as we as viewers are informed, at least) to follow up the huge victory over the Lannister/Tarly forces. She just decides that she has to wait for the outcome of the  absurd wight hunt - even if there is no reason why she cannot continue military operations in parallell with this expedition. Her original plan was to lay siege to King's Landing, and after her battlefield win, she certainly has the opportunity to do just that.

It is fine that she wants to minimize civilian casualties (that it is necessarily so much better for the civilians that KL is besieged instead of stormed, does not, however, seem that obvious to me, but let that be as it may). But if she is so concerned about the civilian population (or her own army, for that matter), why on earth does she, during the battle in episode 4, choose to focus her dragon's firepower ON THE FOOD SUPPLIES??? She is  about to capture those precious, precious food supplies, and she chooses TO BURN THEM? What was the point of that? (If I miss something here, by all means enlighten me). After having captured those food supplies, she could bring them with her to the walls of KL, offering to feed the city if it capitulates. That would not be an ideal situation for a small Lannister force to be in. But instead she chooses to burn the supplies - or that is what the incredibly lazy or inept writers of this show have her do.

I don't understand how they manage to write a story which makes so little sense in so many different ways. It is beyond me.

I totally agree with this point, but, alas, the entire series hangs on a flimsly threas of nonsensical assumptions and ridiculos deductions. 

At the beginning, Cercei has the Crownlands, the Stormlands (disappeared from the spoken narrative of the show), Riverrun, and Castelry Rock with the Westerlands. We do not know how many men her army has, but we know that Dany has at least as much, and probably more. Dany's men are supposedly stronger (the Unsullied never having been defeated due to all their lack of fear anf general Roman legion behaviour, the Dotraki being so many and fighting in such a different way from the westerosi kinights). Dany also has the (prospective) help of Dorne and the Reach. Right. The first leg of Tyrion plan manages to royally fuck the Reach, but in Dorne there should still be an army, even if Ellaria has been taken prisoner. Let's just not think about the fact that Dorne was apparently all right with the bastard paramour of a second son murdering their Prince and his heir. If we are to believe what they are showing us, Ellaria commands Dorne. So, there is an army in Dorne that should have generals, lords, commanders, and those people should know that Ellaria was going to pledge Dorne to Dany and fight at her side. What the hell are they doing now? Right, let's just assume they are all playng the westerosi version of Gin, and move on. The Knights of the Vale are in WF. So the Vale is unguarded. Which means, it is there for the taking. It is supposedly ruled by Robert Arryn, so even my yet unborn child might take it. 

So Dany has an army of Unsullied and Dothraki, three dragons, some remaining (albeit few) Ironborn, and could send an embassy to Dorne to ally herself with the Dorne lords. She could take the Vale without a bloodbath, and leave a token force there to guard the mountain passes. She even has Jon Snow, who is at least neutral and might write to LF in WF to make him bend the fucking knee to Dany, or at least be neutral as well. LF is not the man to chose a side before that side has clearly won. 

So the threat of Cercei army is not really that big in the first place. And she could easily have conquered the entire territory aside from KL, and then lay siege to the city, without burning civilians and castles. After all, when she showed on the battlefield with one dragon, she managed to win without too much effort, killing only soldiers, and a lot of poor grain and assorted food.

This would have taken three-four episodes, and then they could have focused their attention on the WWs. But no, they had to have Cercei be a contrieved plot point, to make her into some kind of great strategist, mad but clever and cunning, and since she is nothing of the sort, all the others had to become idiots in order to mantain the idea that Cercei is, in fact, strong, while they fail to show us how. Maybe, just an idea, if  Cercei had summoned the Golden Company at the beginning of the season, it would have been more credible. But the moment Dany defeats her army outside KL, the only thing that makes you believe (not) that Cercei is still a threat is the fact that they say so. And, since Cercei is allegedly such a big threat, they have to go and do that idiot Seven Samurai Suicide Squad mission, and provide the NK with a nice, ready-to-blow-the-wall dragon. 

In the meanwhile, there are at least three kingdoms that apparently have no rule (Dorne, the Westerands, the Vale), one that is stripped of all the food supply and therefore may be slightly against the Lannister rule (the Reach), one that has disappeared from the narrative (the stormlands), one that is still under Lannister rule (Riverrun) and one that should be, from what they showed, under Dany's rule (the crownlands). Jon, as it was hammered into our heads until we bled from the eyes, has bend the knee. 

There is no real reason to try and convince Cercei to concede a truce. Do not go north of the wall, just take KL, burn Cercei to a nice crisp, and then focus on the WW issue. Maybe the WW had a plan to cross the Wall, but surely the dragon seems to have helped. For what they show us, we are allowed to believe that the invasion would have been at least delayed without the dead dragon vomiting methane at the wall.

And the writers are so unbelievably unaware of all the logic flaws of their writings, that when someone asked if the NK had planned to take a dragon, thay said no, is was an accident. For the Stranger's sake, even if they are so lazy that they did not think of it, at least they could have recognized the potential of the theory to fix their own errors, and lied. 

[sweetsunray]

12 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

If these leaks are true, I won't even bother to buy the last books. I won't be interested in that disaster  any longer…

No they're not true. They're 

The effing "leaked scripts" start with the aftermath of the Nigh King's attack on... CASTLE BLACK! The attack wasn't on CB, but Eastwatch. It goes into a scene where Tormund and Gendry manage to escape, but Beric volunteers to defend and fight and kills the WW who killed Edd.

This is totally, but absolutely totally wrong. Edd isn't at Eastwatch. The attack isn't at Castle Black. Gendry is likely already sent on his way to WF by Davos in epi 6 offscreen. He sure wasn't at the wall. You can throw that "script" out on these gross errors. This was written by someone who had read the lads leaks about the S7 finale and ran with it, assuming the whole wall had come down, and that the attack was at CB, with Edd there.

That's not to say there might not be an attack on CB, but neither Tormund, Gendry or Beric will be there.

[sweetsunray]

Blacknerd's review is hilarious: http://blacknerdproblems.com/game-of-thrones-recap-the-dragon-and-the-wolf/

Quote

She gives the Mountain the instruction that if anything goes wrong to kill Daenerys first, then Jon, then Tyrion, then Lady Olenna again, the Sand family they got in the dungeon if they are still alive, the ghost of Christmas past, heckler number 27 from her walk of shame, the UPS delivery cat that never leaves packages on the front of the Red Keep even though it’s a secure location…

Also, “anything goes wrong” feels like a wide berth here. What if Cersei trips on a step. Or Jon sneezes violently? We could have a massacre cuz some muthafucka didn’t take their allergy meds man.

[..]

Tyrion and Podrick reunite and I had forgot that before he became training-forever Nightwing, Podrick was Tyrion’s squire…or something. Bronn tells them to hurry up and that “he can suck his magic cock later.” At first I thought he was talking about Tyrion and that whole dwarf genitalia holds magical powers thing (which might just be from the books). But then I remembered that Podrick is like the Lex Steele of Westeros. Which again makes me wonder why dude is up north failing at being a knight when he could be down in sunny King’s Landing doing porn parodies like Stone in the Sept 6 or Put’em on The Dragon Glass 12.

[...]

Brienne drops back to walk with the Hound and she like…yeah, so this awkward. Cuz…I really thought I killed your ass my guy. Brienne talkin’ about how she was just trying to protect Arya…even though Arya is the one that told her she didn’t want to go with her. Ok. Feels a bit aggressive for protection in retrospect, but ok. After saying she’s in Winterfell, Hound ask who’s protecting her and Brienne is like, yo…you don’t know the half son. Arya is a fuckin’ sociopath now bruh. Like empathy does not compute, T-1000 type shit. Half the North might be merked by the time I make it back.

[...]

Everybody get to the Dragon Pit and I almost forgot, how the fuck did Reek get on the first team NBA squad? WE DON’T EVEN CALL YOU BY YOUR REAL NAME FAM, HOW YOU GET A SEAT AT THE TABLE LIKE SOLANGE?!?! You had one job and then when you failed that job, you failed the next possible job by deserting your sister after that, the supposed next Queen of the Iron Islands. He’s like Mr. Dalvin of the crew man. I mean, it’s cool you could be there to fill out the group photo, but what purpose do you serve here?

Ain’t gonna lie, when it was just the Northface Swords and Smaug Team Six and Cersei wasn’t there, I was like nah man…tell me there ain’t no fuckin’ wildfire under the Dragon Pit, yo. But, then I laughed because Thrones doesn’t really kill characters that people like anymore.

[...]

And Euron looking at Reek like he doesn’t fucking matter…cuz he don’t.

[...]

Daenerys finally sits down and Cersei acting like she done missed curfew and shit. You gotta dragon, b? How the fuck you late?

The fastest things in Westeros:

• Whatever Bran is warging when the Night King sees him.
• Davos on a boat in season 7
• These new G-Chat Ravens
• Yara with a woman in close proximity.

Das it.

So…can we talk about this Euron shit…like…why? Is there a contractual minimum dialogue that the actor needs to speak for his part or some shit. Dude is way down on the totem pole at this meet to be the first one with an extended dialogue. Euron is the cishet white dude that talks the most in his women’s studies class. FOH man.

Speaking of which…Why is Daenerys talking the least at this meet. She is supposed to be the next ruler but her dragon made more noise when he landed than she did this whole fuckin’ meeting.

[...]

And then…the most impulsive, ill tempered, “I don’t care if I set my house on fire with me in it, at least it will kill the burgulars too”, muthafucka on the show becomes…pragmatic? Wait, what? Cersei, who once killed about 15% of King’s Landing’s population because she didn’t want to appear in court, the woman who ordered a code green on clergy fam, CLERGY, all of a sudden, in 90 seconds is all like, fuck our beef, lets form Voltron? Did y’all get Men In Black flashed a minute ago and remember nothing?

 

[...]

 

But for real Jon, like what are you actually doing? You really went on a suicide mission up in the Fortress of Solitude’s hood, faced off against thousands of wights, sacrificed a dragon, transported the chimera virus across the continent like Mission Impossible 2, all so you could be like, yeah, the only thing you wanted to negotiate in this Cersei…hard pass. Jon the type you bail out of prison, then be like fuck the system, I ain’t appearing in court while you’re like, muthafucka what about that bail money? Jon the type to get pulled over on a traffic stop and confess to the officer that he was smoking…two days ago. Jon the type to remind the professor that they forgot to assign the reading for that day while everyone’s leaving class.

 

[...]

 

My only issue with this scene is this “Cersei with child” shit. Before I was thought she was lying, now I’m just hoping it cuz this shit about to come up in every damn conversation that Cersei has now. Cersei being pregnant this season is like the person that attends Crossfit for two weeks and suddenly it’s the only fucking thing they talk about.

 

 [...]

 

Cersei does her second flip this episode and proclaims that she’s going to pledge the full support of the her army behind them to fight the Great War, with no assurances from either of them. Now, if that shit sounds too easy to you, apparently you would be the only muthafucka in Westeros that thinks so. All of a sudden, the most murderous woman in the known world is down for the team up with her enemies? And nobody questioned that shit? Ok. Sounds a lot like the moderate republican myth to me.

 

[...]

 

Fam, Little Restraining Order in his place of power in a dark ass room giving council to Sansa. In the span of 90 seconds, he done thrown both Jon and Arya under the bus. This whole scene, everybody gotta be like…Sansa, you ain’t this dense girl. This whole possible plot by Arya revolves around her wanting to be Lady of Winterfell, which is literally, some shit she never wanted. Like…you know what, I’m tired of talking about this manufactured ass subplot until I have to…

 

[...]

 

Ugh…this scene and everything with Reek man. I want to like it. I wanted to be moved by two men that were not actually sons of Ned Stark, but were both basically raised by Ned. Jon giving out honorary Stark titles and he can’t (cuz he don’t know) claim the fuckin’ Stark title himself. Reek is like the fuckin’ Arbitor from Halo man, only thing he got left is to die in service of a great deed. If his story don’t end with him murdering Euron to ensure his sister’s escape, then he could drown going to get groceries as far as I’m concerned.

But also, why does Theon have no fighting skills whatsoever. Dude grew up in the Stark house. His sister is a fierce warrior…what he been doing, man? Fuckin’ buying power ball tickets while everybody else been perfecting their footwork? And don’t even get me started on the “knee to the groin that isn’t there” turning point of the fight. Like…give me up to the drowned god for watching that shit.

[...]

Sansa done called Arya to the Great Hall and Arya stepped up to the stage like, yo, what you need sis? Even though this shit was as predictable as a Trump breaking campaign promises, I still was half rooting for this shit to fully embrace the stupidity of this plot and set up a scenario where Arya killed like every soldier in the room when they tried to apprehend her [...] Like the only thing that was missing from this scene was an exaggerated zoom-in on LRO’s face when Sansa dropped the bars.

[...]

So, one: You the Three-eyed Raven and you didn’t know that shit? How you failing Trivia Pursuit and you got the answer sheet? Bran remembers everything, but apparently he fell asleep during that episode of Targaryen Lineage That Will Change Everything.

Two: How Sam just gonna take credit for Gilly’s discovery man. He straight up Columbus-ed the fuck out that piece of info. Damn Gilly, I hate it had to be you. I guess we gotta initiate Gilly into the sisterhood with Sacagawea, Mary Shelley, Nattie Stevens, Joan Clark, Black women in general…

[...]

MEANWHILE…

Incest on Fleek. These folks literally out here rockin’ the boat. Aegon the Aunt Piercer, the dead man formerly known as Jon of course found his way to Auntie Dany’s cabin for that regal room service. AAP done leveled up man. Dude went from a wildling to the prominent Queen of Westeros. The glow up is in full effect it seems. Also, only Game of Thrones plays triumphant music while a dude is inside his aunt. It’s a lot man

[...]

So, essentially, the only people that were supposed to be fooled in those scenes…was us. Which makes that just shitty writing. And if it wasn’t for show, if Arya wasn’t in on it and Sansa just came to her own conclusions about LRO, then why is Arya no longer mad? LRO was present when she wrote the letter but Sansa still wrote the letter, so killing her pederast wouldn’t have changed that. I hated this storyline, but at least it ended with Pervert Carcetti bleeding out on the cobblestones man. It just could’ve been done a lot smarter

[...]

The White Walkers have a dragon, and not even the biggest dragon, but a dragon that melted a wall that’s stood for a thousands years in about the time it takes to pop some instant pop corn, just so Cersei could not join their army to fight the dead. We could’ve never seen this coming…

 

 

[Meera of Tarth]

52 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

No they're not true. They're 

The effing "leaked scripts" start with the aftermath of the Nigh King's attack on... CASTLE BLACK! The attack wasn't on CB, but Eastwatch. It goes into a scene where Tormund and Gendry manage to escape, but Beric volunteers to defend and fight and kills the WW who killed Edd.

This is totally, but absolutely totally wrong. Edd isn't at Eastwatch. The attack isn't at Castle Black. Gendry is likely already sent on his way to WF by Davos in epi 6 offscreen. He sure wasn't at the wall. You can throw that "script" out on these gross errors. This was written by someone who had read the lads leaks about the S7 finale and ran with it, assuming the whole wall had come down, and that the attack was at CB, with Edd there.

That's not to say there might not be an attack on CB, but neither Tormund, Gendry or Beric will be there.

I watched a video about these alledged scripts or leaks and apparently Sansa is Gendry's endgame or something like this, and Tyrion marries Missandei as King and Queen and raise a girl called Lyanna (This one was).. I dunno if they are the same ones. They also said that Arya would kill Cersei with Jaime's face.

Are they the same or these are other ones?