Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

[Meera of Tarth]

Does anyone have the link of the "leaks" now that I now they are fake I'd like to laugh a little

[The Fattest Leech]

On 8/21/2017 at 4:55 AM, athmystikal said:

I have just gone through the alleged script leaks for season 8 (all 6 episodes).

I'm sad to say that it looks like the real deal.

The plot looks very D&D-ish. Everything is rushed and the dialogues are cheesy.

And yes, it is kind of bitter sweet.

 

Here are the links to the summaries. *** SPOILERS ***

 

  Hide contents

EP 1
EP 2
EP 3
EP 4
EP 5
EP 6

I hope it is not the real thing. I am Okay with the situation at the very end. Kind of pictured something similar to happen. But the way it happens is terrible. I hope GRRM writes something better than this.

@Meera of Tarth these, perhaps? 

[Meera of Tarth]

13 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

@Meera of Tarth these, perhaps? 

oh thanks! so Bran becomes NK!

[Meera of Tarth]

I hate when Bran is compared to the NK, as if they are the same person, or multiple persons coexisting in time of space, or him becoming him because we know that Bran is the villain of the story etc etc

Sorry I needed to say that

[sweetsunray]

42 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I watched a video about these alledged scripts or leaks and apparently Sansa is Gendry's endgame or something like this, and Tyrion marries Missandei as King and Queen and raise a girl called Lyanna (This one was).. I dunno if they are the same ones. They also said that Arya would kill Cersei with Jaime's face.

Are they the same or these are other ones?

Same thing, yes. In "script" () 2 HR dies at WF, but in script 3 he's with all them at Gerywater Watch, saying goodbye to Jon and co and promises to go the Blackfish' way, but Jon's splitting the armies in 3: Vale, RR and Dragonstone (bs because of budget). And Arya goes on the Cersei killing mission with the Hound to KL, having gone missing right after the defeat at WF and Bran dieing.

Yup, that's why they gave Arya a VS dagger.  

[Meera of Tarth]

19 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Same thing, yes. In "script" () 2 HR dies at WF, but in script 3 he's with all them at Gerywater Watch, saying goodbye to Jon and co and promises to go the Blackfish' way, but Jon's splitting the armies in 3: Vale, RR and Dragonstone (bs because of budget). And Arya goes on the Cersei killing mission with the Hound to KL, having gone missing right after the defeat at WF and Bran dieing.

Yup, that's why they gave Arya a VS dagger.  

LOL The dagger!!!!!!! Bran dies, but HOWLAND REED! I 'd like to see him with Meera and THE SWORD she  just found in BR's cave""""""and carried with her in all her appearances........

I know they are fake but The Hound meeting his brother.....even if I wanted it not to happen, it will, and it must be in KL, even if the dead are there. since Mountain is like a wight, He'll probably use some Valyryan steel or fire (overcoming his issues with it that have traumatised him since he was a child and  we saw that they were there in the wight hunt) so probably this part of the leaks could be accurate, I mean, a good guess. Even I could buy Arya using Jaime's face but it's a bit...too much.

I know that GreyWorm won't made it, but I don't think that Tyrion will be Missandei's great new love.

[sweetsunray]

6 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I know they are fake but The Hound meeting his brother.....even if I wanted it not to happen, it will, and it must be in KL, even if the dead are there. since Mountain is like a wight, He'll probably use some Valyryan steel or fire (overcoming his issues with it that have traumatised him since he was a child and  we saw that they were there in the wight hunt) so probably this part of the leaks could be accurate, I mean, a good guess. Even I could buy Arya using Jaime's face but it's a bit...too much.

I could see D&D go for a Cleganebowl and Arya deciding to off Cersei once she learns of the betrayal. But if she does that, it would be before she knows the army of the dead crashed through the wall, or after the army of the dead is soundly defeated. Could you imagine Arya abandoning her home and/or family for this after the conclusion between Sansa and Arya while the army of the dead is marching on them or has just attacked them? Just no. Heck, they could cramp Cleganebowl and killing Cersei in the final episode, with them leaving WF or wherever they are at the start of the finale. They're not gonna do it over 4 episodes, will they? And if they do it, they're gonna do it in a bigger team - Gendry regards her as the murderer of his father and Davos is the smuggler. And they'd need Tyrion and/or Varys to get inside the keep and find their way. The ragtag team to take Cersei out, for once and for all.

[Meera of Tarth]

3 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I could see D&D go for a Cleganebowl and Arya deciding to off Cersei once she learns of the betrayal. But if she does that, it would be before she knows the army of the dead crashed through the wall, or after the army of the dead is soundly defeated. Could you imagine Arya abandoning her home and/or family for this after the conclusion between Sansa and Arya while the army of the dead is marching on them or has just attacked them? Just no. Heck, they could cramp Cleganebowl and killing Cersei in the final episode, with them leaving WF or wherever they are at the start of the finale. They're not gonna do it over 4 episodes, will they? And if they do it, they're gonna do it in a bigger team - Gendry regards her as the murderer of his father and Davos is the smuggler. And they'd need Tyrion and/or Varys to get inside the keep and find their way. The ragtag team to take Cersei out, for once and for all.

Yes, I agree, I'm inclined to think that the chances of letting Cersei be alive until the finale are so high, I have difficulties seeing how this could work with Arya's arc if the WWs are there.

From the other hand, if the WWs learn about the teleporation wormholes from Westeros I could see both plots, the political and the fantasy one- together, because basically, it would mean that the WWs would be in the South, so maybe Arya and her team, or Jaime, could have the occasion to kill her while fighting for the living.

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

I could actually see Cleganebowl happening in the North.  We saw in season 7 Cersei making fatalistic going down fighting speeches.  It's like she already knows this isn't going to end well.  She made a very clear threat using Robert Strong against Jaime if he should ever betray her.  She implied he's expendable now that she's pregnant.  Well... Jaime just hit the road northward.  She has everyone she has ever hatred that's still alive in the North.  Sansa made a warning to JOn to not underestimate Cersei, that she could reach them even in WF.  We will probably see her miscarry and with Jaime gone, why not just slam her hand down on the self-destruct button?  Send Robert Strong to take out as many of them as possible.  This actually puts Cleganebowl in the context of not vengeance but Sandor as protector, which seems to be more aligned with the arc they've got him on.  I could actually see Brienne and Sandor fighting the Mountain, perhaps Jaime as well.   We haven't really seen how strong unGregor actually is.  We just got a glimpse when he ripped a dude's head off.  He could be even harder to take down now.    

[sweetsunray]

59 minutes ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

I could actually see Cleganebowl happening in the North.  We saw in season 7 Cersei making fatalistic going down fighting speeches.  It's like she already knows this isn't going to end well.  She made a very clear threat using Robert Strong against Jaime if he should ever betray her.  She implied he's expendable now that she's pregnant.  Well... Jaime just hit the road northward.  She has everyone she has ever hatred that's still alive in the North.  Sansa made a warning to JOn to not underestimate Cersei, that she could reach them even in WF.  We will probably see her miscarry and with Jaime gone, why not just slam her hand down on the self-destruct button?  Send Robert Strong to take out as many of them as possible.  This actually puts Cleganebowl in the context of not vengeance but Sandor as protector, which seems to be more aligned with the arc they've got him on.  I could actually see Brienne and Sandor fighting the Mountain, perhaps Jaime as well.   We haven't really seen how strong unGregor actually is.  We just got a glimpse when he ripped a dude's head off.  He could be even harder to take down now.    

True that.

Overall, we know that the endgame as being bittersweet according to George is the type of bittersweet as the scourging of the Shire. Cersei all alone in KL with just the Mountain and Qyburn also makes for boring TV, and the occasional scene between Lena and Pilou might be fun, but Pilou needs someone with him to taunt.

The main point should be that they've been killing off plenty of characters in S5-S6, hardly established much characterization in the new characters introduced in S6, except for Euron slightly more in S7. They had to resort to sending red-cloaks along on the M7 mission beyond the wall to have more than 1 death of Thoros. They even seemed to imply that Tormund and Beric managed to get to the safe side of the wall at Eastwatch that didn't collapse.

[Wight nr 121]

7 hours ago, blacktea79 said:

The first leg of Tyrion plan manages to royally fuck the Reach, but in Dorne there should still be an army, even if Ellaria has been taken prisoner.

It may be that the Dornish army was meant to be on board the fleet which Euron attacked - that he attacked the ships on their way back to King's Landing, not on their way to Dorne. But this was not something which was highlighted (or even stated, I think), so it was very poor story-telling anyway. 

[aliasocfan]

I really didn't notice if this was discussed to death already, but I need to rant anyway. 

So according to Isaac Hempstead Wright, Bran ex machina at the last minute gave really useful information to Sansa. (cut scene naturally, they needed that cock conversation). I can't believe that the story makes less sense with the explanation than it did before. I swear only this show can do that. 

So both Sansa and Arya were willing to kill each other over basically nothing. I guess you could argue that Sansa was just reacting to Arya's threat, but killing her was extreme. Even Arya's reaction was ridiculous. I know these writers are painfully superficial, but this was terrible even by their standards. It all revolved around !shocking the audience with Littlefingers death. It wasn't escalating tension between the sisters. It wasn't highlighting their differences and how their respective dramas changed them. Nope. It was just them catty women not dealing with each other. So fucking stupid. 

Then possibly the dumbest part. After Littlefingers death, they were fine with each other. Arya's still a complete pyschopath. Sansa still wants more political power, but everything is completely fine. A pleasant conversation between them was nice, but completely random. 

[Mister Stoneheart]

There's no cause and effect with these showrunners.  No ripple effect.

[Neverborn]

57 minutes ago, aliasocfan said:

I really didn't notice if this was discussed to death already, but I need to rant anyway. 

So according to Isaac Hempstead Wright, Bran ex machina at the last minute gave really useful information to Sansa. (cut scene naturally, they needed that cock conversation). I can't believe that the story makes less sense with the explanation than it did before. I swear only this show can do that. 

So both Sansa and Arya were willing to kill each other over basically nothing. I guess you could argue that Sansa was just reacting to Arya's threat, but killing her was extreme. Even Arya's reaction was ridiculous. I know these writers are painfully superficial, but this was terrible even by their standards. It all revolved around !shocking the audience with Littlefingers death. It wasn't escalating tension between the sisters. It wasn't highlighting their differences and how their respective dramas changed them. Nope. It was just them catty women not dealing with each other. So fucking stupid. 

Then possibly the dumbest part. After Littlefingers death, they were fine with each other. Arya's still a complete pyschopath. Sansa still wants more political power, but everything is completely fine. A pleasant conversation between them was nice, but completely random. 

Thanks for saying what I just intended to write.

Seems like the showrunners now reached the point where they write a script just with the audiences reaction in mind and not with actual character arcs. D&D said in there behind the scenes video that the scene builds on the viewers thinking that the arya and sansa might kill eachother and that it was important for them to make this conflict feel like a "true rift" between them. So the viewers would be shocked in the end.

The simplest explanation is often the best (especially if you analyse D&D writing). So we have to chose between three explanations why D&D created conflict between sansa and arya in e5&6:

1) They wrote it as part of a bigger plan to trick LF (dumbing-down LF to show that arya & sansa are smart)

2) They wrote it to give LF one last game before he dies (dumbing-down and destroying/ignoring character arcs of sansa & arya doing so)

3) They wrote it to shock the audience with the last episode (means no deeper thoughts / character arcs behind the conflict at all.)

Judging by the isaac interview and the behind the scenes video I tend to think it was the last one. The arya-sansa conflict was written only for the audience and not for the characters. In this sense D&D somehow reached their goal because part of the audience was still surprised by this outcome. But it just contibutes nothing to the story because it wasn't written with the story in mind.

It is known that D&D are bad writers, but with this I am not even sure if we can call this writing at all. Isn't the definition of writing a story to write something that contributes to the story and not  something irrelevant to create a special reaction from the audience?

What's your opinion: can we even call this writing?

 

ps: the first post I ever wrote in a rant and rave topic. Seems the last two episodes have finally succeeded where two seasons of nonsense before failed.

[Kingslayer96]

I don't have a harsh opinion on the writing but there are couple things that I've noticed that do bug me a little

For one the Raven being able to travel at light speed. Doesn't bother me that much honesty but it's just kinda funny

And then there's the characters coming out of nowhere. Thoros, Beric, and gendry all have a major role all of a sudden. The series should've followed thoros and Beric a little more seeing how great they are this season. And when was the last time we saw gendry? Why is he just now being used? Ffs he's robert barratheon's bastard son and he's a blacksmith who fights pretty well with a warhammer. He's awesome. It's just weird that we're(or at least me) just now seeing that

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

12 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

True that.

Overall, we know that the endgame as being bittersweet according to George is the type of bittersweet as the scourging of the Shire. Cersei all alone in KL with just the Mountain and Qyburn also makes for boring TV, and the occasional scene between Lena and Pilou might be fun, but Pilou needs someone with him to taunt.

The main point should be that they've been killing off plenty of characters in S5-S6, hardly established much characterization in the new characters introduced in S6, except for Euron slightly more in S7. They had to resort to sending red-cloaks along on the M7 mission beyond the wall to have more than 1 death of Thoros. They even seemed to imply that Tormund and Beric managed to get to the safe side of the wall at Eastwatch that didn't collapse.

Well, as far as the first part with what might keep things busy in the first episodes in KL is the entrance of the Golden Company and Theon's mission to rally the Iron Born to save Yara.  I don't see Euron ending up a human level big bad.  Whether Yara lives or dies, I think Theon will probably defeat him and sail North afterward.  Qyburn seemed mighty curious as to how wights work and may be wanting to make his own undead soldiers in addition to RObert Strong?  Seems like something up his alley.  How could things go from bad to worse while condensing filming locations and saving the budget for the cgi?  Fighting two fronts to the north and south of Winterfell.  There still seems to be issues with having enough food, which would leave them more cut off.  Cersei marching north in a mad rage, fuck-it-all, take em all out battle royal.  That places all remaining characters with beefs to resolve around one location.  And an opportunity for Cersei to meet her end by Jaime.  We already saw him being set up as a queenslayer with his lance charge at Dany.  I don't see Arya leaving her family willingly to run off to kill Cersei.  She expressed that before she knew her family had taken WF and she immediately switched gears.  I can't rule her out though as it could still happen, but my money is on Jaime.  Nothing packs the emotional punch of Jaime being her downfall, books or show.  You'd have sandwiched in between everyone else:  the Vale, the North, the Dothraki, the Unsullied, the Free Folk, dragons, probably that Lannister garrison that was going to the Twins, Edmure Tully and the Riverlands (if they haven't forgotten him), and they'd probably call back the Night's Watch since the Wall is kinda useless now.  

I agree that Tormund and Beric most likely survived East Watch, because they will want them to go out (at least Beric) actually fighting the undead.  I could also see them wanting to squeeze out one more Brienne moment for Tormund before/if he dies. 

 

 

     

         

[sweetsunray]

24 minutes ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

 I don't see Arya leaving her family willingly to run off to kill Cersei.  She expressed that before she knew her family had taken WF and she immediately switched gears.  I can't rule her out though as it could still happen, but my money is on Jaime.

Agreed. Basically, at the end of S4 Arya abandoned Westeros to become an assassin in Braavos. But she refused to do any assignment they gave her, and instead killed someone of her list and the waif in self defense for survival. She was done with the HoBaW towards the end of S6, her mind solely aimed at revenge and striking names of her list. At the CROSSROADS she ends up choosing to go home to WF over revenge. And at the end of S7 she and Sansa both agree that IN WINTER the pack needs to stay together. She chose family over the list. And then there's a handsome bloke on his way to WF, already having worked for her "brother", whom she regards as family too and thrice over stopped her from charging to take revenge: told her to stay away from the cage, and she listened; kept her physically put from charging at Ser Amory after his soldiers struck an arrow into Yoren; ran after her and jumped and held her to prevent her from killing Sandor.

Not sure though about Jaime. It may be Tyrion after all too.

[sweetsunray]

35 minutes ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

I agree that Tormund and Beric most likely survived East Watch, because they will want them to go out (at least Beric) actually fighting the undead.  I could also see them wanting to squeeze out one more Brienne moment for Tormund before/if he dies. 

Yes, Tormund will have another of those eyeballing moments with Brienne before he dies.

They're gonna keep Beric around to give his life to resurrect someone imo. Thoros was killed and Mel isn't in Westeros anymore, and she had to promise at least not to resurrect Jon again. The only one who can raise someone from the dead again is Beric: he made no promises to Jon.

[ramla]

On 8/28/2017 at 9:35 PM, Aemon Targaryen said:

But if GRRM never knew exactly how the story ended, then there are all sorts of possibilities, but mainly:

1.  GRRM was 100% truthful and open in telling D&D the ending, as best he knew it at the time.

2.  (Consistent with 1) GRRM changed his mind in big ways and small ways in actually writing the books.

3.  (Also consistent with 1) GRRM changed his mind to intentionally diverge from the show.

4.  GRRM was never 100% open or truthful about the ending.

In other words: the show HAS changed the books .... if the show didn't exist, GRRM might have been much more straightforward but is now going to add even more twists than he otherwise would have.

In light of that, the only sure things are who dies and who survives of the main characters.

  Reveal hidden contents

But I am most disturbed by the Bran turns in the NK thing.  Really, that means that all the shit with 3ER, greenseers etc is just another "jump the wight" moment, but it would be ultimately attributable to GRRM.

In other words - the Others are explained/justified only really by the fact that the CoTF created them as terminators ... that's it.  And the only rationale for Bran's whole plot line is that once raised by a WW he will become a new NK. Gah.

 

The Season 8 leaks seem horrible… Or they could be great depending on how each plot point is delivered. Why the Miscarriage happened…  How Jon and Dany deal with their situation being related. Its about the Journey. But we all know D&D aren't very good storytellers… Especially with GRRM's universe.

The Plot in the season 8 spoilers would seem different with all the books elements, like Ashara Dayne, Young Griff and the Direwolves. The shows are a straight line now..

 

While it is possible for the shows to influence the books, I doubt it will, as the shows ideas aren't really good, and GRRM doesn't watch the show. Likely because its terrible from a writers standpoint and its his baby they are drowning.

 

D&D know the ending and the large beats or fates of the main characters like Jons parentage. But nothing beyond that for anything he hasn’t written.. or hadn’t written to that point. Why? Because although he knows the structure and ending of his story… George is a gardener when it comes too his characters. Which means he plants the seed and lets it grow. Which is why his books keep getting larger. He may know what he wants to happen but how he gets there is strictly character driven. So how Jon is resurrected will be based purely on characters and their motivations established in the books. Not on what tests well or what looks awesome. Bran can't be the NK in the books because there is no NK in the books. Story is vastly different already. Will Jon go weight hunting in the books? 85% sure he won't as the whole premise is stupid. Maybe he gets one to show Dany… But not Cersei.

[Battle Kitten]

If the season 8 script leaks are remotely true, I'm peace-outting. I can't think of a lamer way to end the series and hope to goodness GRRM doesn't have a heart attack after the destruction of his body of work.