Little Scribe of Naath

Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

640 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

It's not really implied that Hound would go back all the way to his old ways had he not run into Beric and Thoros - but, you know, joining a group with firm morals tends to have a stabilizing effect in that regard.

Also - they persuaded him to abstain from butchering and make do with hanging, and he grudgingly relented; so if they had any influence on him, it was a slightly moderating one.

 

So you are saying that he wouldn't have returned to being badass if it had not been for them (which is not true because we see him wanting to avenge Ray), but at the same time the effect was slight?

Quote

No it was 0.2 seconds, and what "super ass"?

It's a classic to rant. That moment when the guys are playing with fingers and butts for filler.

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16 minutes ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

Yeah they do it out of devotion for Cersei, and not because presenting evidence to the current ruler is just something that makes sense - just like when Jeor sent Alliser with that thing's hand to Joffrey.

TO JOFFREY.

Jeor sent a wight hand TO JOFFREY can you believe it!!!!!!!???

I think the wight hunt it's much worse. All the season is about that. And the gift it's to Cersei, the Queen that burned lots of people and is sitting on Dany's throne. But they still sacrifice themselves to hunt that wight for her.

Not to mention that Cersei is already accustomed to Mountains and similar people/things. So what is a wight?

Is it proof that there are WWs???

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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34 minutes ago, TheCasualObserver said:

Can you honestly say that the takeaway from the brotherhood scene was supposed to have a moralizing message? I#ll bet that every single person who watched the notMeribald scene knew he was doomed, because this is game of thrones. If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't bee paying attention.

He was barking mad to shun self-defense - whether that itself was a retarded plot point or not, I'm not sure.

But, out of curiosity, why do you think pacifist monk priests should have plot armor in the middle of a warzone?

34 minutes ago, TheCasualObserver said:

It's a throwaway scene to involve the hound back into the plot.

Which scene, BwB or Ray or what?

34 minutes ago, TheCasualObserver said:

It is not there to deconstruct. It is not there to represent a force for good thriving in the world.

You're just repeating what I said, and I'll repeat it again:

Just because no point was made out of the BwB being a force for good in this world of corruption and treacherey, doesn't negate the fact that they were depicted as an idealistic, uncorrupted counterpart to their book version.

The original claim was that the show makes everything cynical like an angry teenager or something

34 minutes ago, TheCasualObserver said:

The scene is there to move a passive Hound back into his usual self, who acts badass and kills people.

Except more moral.

34 minutes ago, TheCasualObserver said:

But getting back to my original point, a conspiracy created with the express purpose to reject the unjust rule of the Botons in memory of Ned Stark is a message which has no place on the show.   

Yeah, but Arya rejecting the FM's amoral ways does have a place in the show?
And Tyrion being Ned-level noble and not raping a bedslave also has a place in the show?

Seems like they don't got problems with some positivity or idealism here and there, they just forgot to emphasize that with the BwB - or, I should say, they did emphasize their heroism, but not specifically the fact that said heroism hadn't changed since S2.

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This season is just a mess. I'm only looking forward to 2 or 3 storylines. The rest is horseshit. I hope some leaks are wrong

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10 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I think the wight hunt it's much worse. All the season is about that. And the gift it's to Cersei, the Queen that burned lots of people and is sitting on Dany's throne. But they still sacrifice themselves to hunt that wight for her.

I see

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22 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

So you are saying that he wouldn't have returned to being badass if it had not been for them (which is not true because we see him wanting to avenge Ray), but at the same time the effect was slight?

It's not entirely clear what would've happened if he hadn't run into Beric - he could've devolved further, in which case the BwB's effect was significant, or he wouldn't, in which case it was slight, or maybe even nill (no one said he's not gonna gut people in other contexts).

But IF they had any effect on him it was definitely a moderating one, and not in any way shape or form a "back to violence" one as people here seem to think.

Quote

It's a classic to rant. That moment when the guys are playing with fingers and butts for filler.

The Hound wasn't there - so throw your super butts at some other door.

Edited by Pink Fat Rast

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1 hour ago, StepStark said:

Are you kidding me??? LOL!!! That debate was one big embarrassment for you. Just remember what you were saying about the chapter, and then compare it to the chapter itself, and anyone can easily see you managed to get it completely wrong. I stopped debating you because there is no point to it, because you don't care to accept even the most obvious facts. There is no reasoning with you on any level. And because debating you is not even fun, I just stopped.

No, you lost the debate.

And what are you doing here, on a non-debate thread, insisting you won a debate in a debate thread instead of doing it over there? 

That's just absurd, take that back where it belongs eh

1 hour ago, StepStark said:

This debate here only assured me that it was the right decision, because hey, you managed to completely misunderstand both Le Cygne and that video.

No I didn't.

1 hour ago, StepStark said:

Sorry but no, the video didn't misrepresent anything, it was you who managed to misunderstand what the video was saying about LOTR and ASOIAF. You obviously misunderstood Arya's revenge and Dany's dragons too, in both mediums.

Prove it.

1 hour ago, StepStark said:

I didn't want to bother and prove how wrong all of your "points" are, because that'd be futile and wouldn't lead to anything constructive, you being you.

Ah, of course.

1 hour ago, StepStark said:

So I just tried to show how wrong your conclusion actually is. Sadly, even that was too much for you apparently.

No you didn't, you said you didn't want to bother^^ :D

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18 minutes ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

The Hound wasn't there - so throw your super butts at some other door.

I am talking "good Bwb", bad BWb and Hound in general. Now, I've just remembered these ones were the bad Bwb and not the "good ones" or the Hound. (I just don't remember exactly the scenes I hate the most of a season and because of that I mentioned it thinkng it belonged to the "good bwb" and the Hound).

However, it's interesting to remember that moment here, in the rant thread, because that shows how bad writing this was.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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For what it's worth, I thought the Butt-Prank was slightly less low brow than the fat constipated man straining to shite.

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14 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Quick response:  I give citations in the video.  Multiple interviews they said that actually, we just tuned it out because it was even more absurd than "we have a wacky conception of the fictional character"

It's "We reconceived the role to make it worthy of the actor's talents".

episode 5.10 commentary, the Dorne scenes.

Okay I couldn't find those parts on YT, but later in the video you provide the larger excerpt this quote is from:

Weiss: "and we really hadn't planned on Ellaria being much more than an accessory to Oberyn, but as soon as we knew that Indira was up for it, we reconceived the part to make it something that hopefully was worthy of some of her talents - they're tremendous."


So the part that was "reconceived" was her not being more than an accessory - i.e. they made her an important lead figure with her own agency etc.

It had nothing to do with reconceiving her character, personality and whatnot "between S4 and S5", and it doesn't say they redesigned her character without justifying it in-universe.


The basic, foundational in-universe explanation is already provided by the context: shock and dismay over Oberyn's death, black dress (etc.) because she's "in mourning", and the grim personality is self-explanatory.

The only question is how organic the finer details were, or whether any effort was put into making this change feel organic - not exactly sure myself but, again, the provided quote refers to something else entirely.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

What they don't know is the North means hunting wights for Cersei!! but this is "cool" isn't it?

The "best" plot of s7.

hunting wights for Cersei!!!!!!!!!

I suppose Jon will tell them he needs their help:lol:

Wait this is gonna happen with Deadpan's agreement right? It's not like she doesn't have enough people who know how untrustworthy Cheryl is on her team. 

Well he can't tell them: "I have to follow this stupid plan, so the viewers have the annual dramatically satisfying, badass action Episode with me." :lol:

@Darkstream and @StepStark I recommend using the 'ignore' function. 

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9 hours ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

He was barking mad to shun self-defense - whether that itself was a retarded plot point or not, I'm not sure.

But, out of curiosity, why do you think pacifist monk priests should have plot armor in the middle of a warzone?

Which scene, BwB or Ray or what?

You're just repeating what I said, and I'll repeat it again:

Just because no point was made out of the BwB being a force for good in this world of corruption and treacherey, doesn't negate the fact that they were depicted as an idealistic, uncorrupted counterpart to their book version.

The original claim was that the show makes everything cynical like an angry teenager or something

Except more moral.

Yeah, but Arya rejecting the FM's amoral ways does have a place in the show?
And Tyrion being Ned-level noble and not raping a bedslave also has a place in the show?

Seems like they don't got problems with some positivity or idealism here and there, they just forgot to emphasize that with the BwB - or, I should say, they did emphasize their heroism, but not specifically the fact that said heroism hadn't changed since S2.

Of course Ray didn't have plot armor - the point of that scene was to show that pacifism has no place in Westeros. As if anyone who's ever watched the show would ever think otherwise. No violence? Bad. Violence? Good. You see why I think this show has a teenager's sensibilities?

As for the brotherhood, you're using a case of false equivalency here - comparing GRRM's broader comments about the social contract to a five minute scene in which an intact brotherhood show up is clearly unhelpful. One provides a theme to AFFC and ADWD and the other is a method by which the Hound can re-enter the cult of badass. Ray is the inciting incident, an unbelievable lotus eater who's death forces the hound to pick his axe back up. The brotherhood serve as the vehicle through which the hound can start being badass again. The scene is disposable and thematically meaningless. 

But you make a more interesting point with Tyrion and Arya. I have always been baffled by what the show is doing with Arya - she drags her heels for two seasons in Braavos and then flashes back to kill Walder Frey out of nowhere. She kills Meryn Trant, and it's done in such a horrible way you definitely feel like Arya is going to far - except they went to excruciating lengths to show that Meryn is a violent pedophile, so I have no idea what to make of it. At the end of her story she abandons the framework of the faceless men and goes off to start killing on her own, so I guess the take away from Arya's story is "vengeance is awesome", as it is with three quarters of GOT's entire cast. That doesn't strike me as particularly moral.

Tyrion is a notable exception. He is certainly a lighter character at this point than his book counterpart and seems to just be cruising along. I wish I could give the show credit for giving us something less bleak than the books, but the reasoning behind this decision was almost certainly that they didn't want people to think less of their favorite character, rather than any moral or tonal objections to Tyrion's ADWD storyline. Tyrion might not be a rapist in the show, but to balance things out they made Sansa a rape victim instead.

And ultimately Tyrion's decency doesn't disguise the show's juvenile cynicism. Tyrion's attempts to make peace fail, and the lasting solution is for Dany to burn everyone to death. Whenever a broader political point is made in the show, violence, dishonesty and dishonor are the decisive factors and anyone saying otherwise is crushed.  

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6 hours ago, Queen of Procrastination said:

Wait this is gonna happen with Deadpan's agreement right? It's not like she doesn't have enough people who know how untrustworthy Cheryl is on her team. 

Well he can't tell them: "I have to follow this stupid plan, so the viewers have the annual dramatically satisfying, badass action Episode with me." :lol:

people from her team will conveniently avoid mentioning that she is not trustworthy. They even might tell the contrary bwcause......the plot demands it!

And I agree with what you say about Jon. It really fits!!! The annual episode in which I am the hero (so as that people don't forget it lol).....although this time the situation makes no sense at all!

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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I don't care about anyone's story other than Dany but the leaks makes me less interested even to her storyline. Hopefully there will be more action scenes of my boys Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion. Here's me hoping they make Daenerys multidimensional like in the books. What happens to Viserion is sad but I hope it will bring more emotions out of her.

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I talk about that in the video; "along with its substance from the books"?  -- Meaning WHAT?  Arianne?   The Doran-Arianne relationship?  Any of the cultural details about Dorne?  The ONLY thing they specify in their comments about "that world of Dorne" is "Varma". 

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14 hours ago, Darkstream said:

Well, I'm not sure what comment of Le Cygne's you're refering to, no doubt you've mis-interpreted that as well. Either way, unlike with you, I am quite familiar with the excellent analysis put forth by her in the past, and greatly respect her comments and views regarding both the show and books.

and

13 hours ago, StepStark said:

This debate here only assured me that it was the right decision, because hey, you managed to completely misunderstand both Le Cygne and that video.

Indeed, that is the case. And thank you! I appreciate it. :)

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On 17. 4. 2017 at 9:08 PM, The Dragon Demands said:

Why Dorne Failed in the Game of Thrones TV series - 4 hour documentary in two parts:

 

 

Weeks of research went into these.

While I have issues with the length, I must say that this will probably be my second favorite criticism of the show right after the Preston Jacob´s review of season 6.

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Yeah this is the "long version" which I made because YouTube has no time limits.  Shorter versions will come in the future.  This was officially the heavy analysis version.

What in particular did you like about it?

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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3 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Yeah this is the "long version" which I made because YouTube has no time limits.  Shorter versions will come in the future.  This was officially the heavy analysis version.

What in particular did you like about it?

Well,for one, I liked summing up the info, since I don´t own DVD´s /Blue Rays and don´t actively monitoring the interviews about GOT, I am not such masochist :-). And obviously, I like the suggestions about the writing proccess, that´s always entertaining to hear when the inferior product is concerned.

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Sorry for double post, I´ve just remembered something. I know it´s only one word and therefore it can be seen as nitpicky, but when Ramsey shows Sansa flayed woman who gave her the candle, he describes her as "your northern friend". In the setting where everyone (including himself!) is Northerner... 

Edited by Rhodan

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