Leaks discussion thread for season 7 vol. 2.

[Sir Matthis Light]

44 minutes ago, Evarei said:

Mark Mylod spotted in Oldtown of Cáceres

King's Landing? Will it be the parade D and D were talking about?

A parade seriously? The High Septon was blown to pieces along with the Queen and a lot of innocents, the King has just committed suicide, just about all the Kingdoms save the Riverlands are in open rebellion again, and a Targaryen Dragon Queen is invading with 3 dragons and Dothraki horselords.  In the context of the show you know this bright idea belongs to Cersei.

[Lord Friendzone]

Wasn't parade turned into an event in throne room for four characters?

[A Ghost of Someone]

21 minutes ago, Sir Matthis Light said:

Could be but I like to think his sights are set on becoming lord of Highgarden and ultimately the Reach. In Crusader Kings 2 terms thats a defacto Kingship under the Empire title that is the Ironthrone.

I think it could be a reason he sides with her as a snag from the books. It was suggested to her by either Uncle Kevan or Jaime that if she made Randal Tarly hand, it would keep Mace Tyrell from aquiring more personal power as Randal Tarly is considered in the books anyway as the best general in Westeros and the real "teeth" to the military of the Reach.

[kg1982]

7 hours ago, Evarei said:

@kg1982

you're getting yourself too worked up. I don't like it either but Jon offering to give up his title won't even matter in the grand scheme of things. Apocalypse is coming, there won't be time for politicking and if the HOTU vision from season 2 is any indication Daenerys will never reach the Iron Throne. She will be dead by the end. 

And IF the spoiler is correct, Jon is above Daenerys when it comes to Lordship over Westeros, he is Rhaegar's legitimate heir. If anyone should be kneeling it's Daenerys. Once they learn the truth, we will see how things go. It's possible D and D will go full feminist and still have Daenerys in a superior position even after the reveal but there's a fair chance things will shift.

There's a pattern with Jon. He gets elected as LC Mormont's steward even though he'd rather be a measly ranger ('he wants to groom you for command'), he kind of abandons his stewarship to act as a ranger anyway,  then he gets elected as Lord Commander even though he'd rather not be, he gives up his position as LC, then he gets elected as KITN, he gives up his Northern crown, he gets elected as...you catch my drift. 

I doubt the plot twist of Jon being the legitimate heir will lead nowhere. Otherwise why bother with making him one?

 

Of course, Dan and David will go full feminist and Jon will kneel to Dany and give up his title.  Seriously, why wouldn't they have boy submissively kneel to her and give up another title.  There is precedent for that BTW - Maester Aemon in the Night's Watch.  If Jon is willing to give up his title regarding the North which he cares about, I am not sure why he wouldn't be willing to give up a title he couldn't give two hoots about like the Iron Throne.  And my main issue is Jon having sex with her after he gives up his title and despite the fact she tells him not to; I don't like the submissive nature of the relationship.  If Jon needs to give up the North to save everyone, then that is commendable but kneeling because Dany is "sad" for no reason and then proceeding to become her "mistress"  is dumb.  He doesn't need to become Dany's submissive housewife to save the world.  

And please I doubt the whole ZOMG Jon being legitimate matters other than for him to give up another title to Snowflake Targaryen.  That's fine but he really doesn't need to be her lover.

[kg1982]

7 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

One of the grossest romances, You must be fan at parties and clearly in the wrong fandom. It seems you hate every romance.

Submissive romances where one partner is clearly dominant to another are gross.  I certainly wouldn't want to be in a situation as a woman where I was a submissive broodmare to Jesus.  Would you think that a situation where a woman was subservient to a man was good or sexy or romantic?  I wouldn't.  I've criticized women who seek those sorts of relationships.  The same applies for guys.

You still didn't answered my question. Without Dany the North is fucked. What they should do? One way or the other they won't be independent as white walkers would overrun them or Dany would demand that there should be no other royalty than her or psychopath Cersei who wants them dead. Who should they ally themselves with? Who is the best option?

Sure ally with Dany and then fight like heck against her as a foreign invader once the ice zombie is gone.

He gives up all the political power. Because Jon clearly cars for political power,

Why does he need to become her submissive boy toy to save the North?

Shes not the one who control their relationship or at least there is no word on this and doubt very it would be this way. It's your interpretation. Apart from constant ranting on submissive boy toy which is some form of trolling, it's basoically that you hate Dany and you don't want Jon to kneel and her to die. Basically fan wars.

Yep, I don't want the North subservient to another foreign tyrant who cares less about it.  And no Jon doesn't control anything in the relationship once he kneels to her.  Dany can have him executed on a whim if he looks at her funny.  This doesn't suggest an equal power dynamic in the relationship.  It really is a relationship with Jon as a submissive boy toy rather than the two as equals.  Sorry that makes you sad; however, that is what Dany fans want.  They not only want Dany to win the Iron Throne but they want Jon to become some completely emasculated servant/ husband/ sperm donor.  

 

[kg1982]

50 minutes ago, dsug said:

so you're saying you'd rather see him be a domineering, forceful alpha male? 

I feel like i'm reading some type of poorly written erotica here, with all your boy toys and submissive mistresses and broodmares and minions.

No.  I would rather it be a normal relationship where both parties are equal.  You know like the ones that everyone else has rather than Jon being some submissive housewife to Dany.  How about this they don't have to sleep with each other if one has complete political power over the other.

[El Guapo]

Is this message board still about ASOIF or is this now about Fifty Shades for Grey?  I can't tell the difference reading this thread.

[Ice Spider]

1 hour ago, El Guapo said:

Is this message board still about ASOIF or is this now about Fifty Shades for Grey?  I can't tell the difference reading this thread.

It's about being submissive, can't you tell?

[kg1982]

3 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Is this message board still about ASOIF or is this now about Fifty Shades for Grey?  I can't tell the difference reading this thread.

Well.  That is apparently where producers are taking things with the stupid Dany-Jon "romance."  

[Meera of Tarth]

9 hours ago, Leticia Stark said:

Like someone said other day, Bran is like a god now, he's so over this mundane things aka titles, he's soon going to be a tree. Winterfell will be Sansa's or Arya's in the end, probably.

might I remind you that the show especifically said he was NOT going to become a tree.....

[Cron]

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

might I remind you that the show especifically said he was NOT going to become a tree.....

Hmmm...very interesting.

I'm not saying you're wrong, of course, but I wonder if what they meant is that he won't merge with a tree during the current series run.

I mean, consider Brynden Rivers, Bloodraven.  In the Dunk and Egg stories, he was much older than Bran is now, and running around fine, not merged with a tree...but later in life...tree.

Maybe a tree is in Bran's future, just not anytime remotely soon.

In fact, the showrunners can't possibly guarantee us he will never merge with a tree.  All they can talk about, or control, I think, is what will happen in the current series run.

Just bouncing around possibilities, though, not saying you're wrong.

[Meera of Tarth]

See

1 hour ago, Cron said:

Hmmm...very interesting.

I'm not saying you're wrong, of course, but I wonder if what they meant is that he won't merge with a tree during the current series run.

I mean, consider Brynden Rivers, Bloodraven.  In the Dunk and Egg stories, he was much older than Bran is now, and running around fine, not merged with a tree...but later in life...tree.

Maybe a tree is in Bran's future, just not anytime remotely soon.

In fact, the showrunners can't possibly guarantee us he will never merge with a tree.  All they can talk about, or control, I think, is what will happen in the current series run.

Just bouncing around possibilities, though, not saying you're wrong.

in that case he could be Lord of Wf as the rightful heir meanwhile which was my point....

[SeanF]

11 hours ago, kg1982 said:

Jon actually is Dany's submissive mistress jus like Daario was.  That is the deal.  He is her submissive "wife" with no power.  That is the deal.  He essentially becomes the male version of a submissive broodmare for Jesus.  And yes if he kneels, I hope the North abandons him and he is completely screwed over for his decision.  C'mon Sansa! Crucify him for kneeling to the evil tyrant!  If he portrays thr North, I hope he loses all power.  Screw him.

 Him sleeping with her after kneeling is even worse.  Not only does he give up all political power to Dany but he also becomes her submissive boy toy.  And that is essentially what he is if he sleeps with her after he kneels. She is the one who controls the relationship.  He has no power in it other than her submissive minion.  Okay, Dany fans you win.  Dany gets to be queen but why do you insist that Jon end up as some submissive sex slave to her as well. 

Oh and Jon Ygritte is one of the grossest romances out there.  I guess that there are some people who just like Jon as the submissive bottom in a relationship.

If Jon ends up married to Daenerys, how does that make him her "submissive mistress?"  Until they have children, he would be the heir to the Iron Throne, and any children of theirs would rule Westeros.  In all likelihood, he'd hold a high position on the Small Council, such as Hand or Master of War, and would have a title like Prince of Dragonstone, or Prince of Summerhall.

There are two good reasons why Jon would offer her fealty:-

1. He needs her to help fight the White Walkers and/or 

2. Daenerys threatens to visit sword and fire on the North if they resist her claim.

Swearing fealty in order to save one's people is not shameful.

[SeanF]

13 hours ago, kg1982 said:

 

There are very few royal/noble marriages in which there is an equal balance of power between both parties.

Dany has dragons, a massive army, and all the resources of the East to draw on.  She's also extremely ruthless.  Both Daario and Tyrion have talked her out of carrying out genocide against her opponents, which suggests that she can be reasoned with.  Submitting to, and marrying, her is a good political move, not a humiliation.

[maudisdottir]

Bran won't have time to be fighting over who should be Lord of Winterfell.  He's the 3EC now so I expect he'll spend a lot of time in the godswood tapping into the net.  I doubt he'll have any interest in ruling or even Northern politics in general unless it's directly related to fighting the WWs.  That's his purpose now, not playing lordling.

And in times of war, the people wouldn't look to an immobile adolescent.  Jon is a leader who's proven himself on the battlefield.  Niceties like succession go out the window when it's strength people rally behind.  They named Jon KitN because they need a leader for the wars to come, not because he happened to be sitting in Ned's chair; even though Bran is Ned's son, he won't inspire men to risk everything the way Jon can.

[lojzelote]

10 hours ago, Lady Ren said:

Then I guess I disagree with the great GRRM. 

Don't know much about Alexander the Great, but if the man forced people to join his exalted and selfless cause of world domination then no thanks. His empire may have flourished with all the gracious and enlightening conquering he no doubt did.

History shows us that kind and benevolent leaders who kept their people fed had thriving empires. So what? Just because that worked better than the techniques of their more bloodthirsty predecessors, doesn't mean that that form of government can in any way compete with true freedom. 

 

I'm not saying you have to agree with GRRM's opinions, but IMHO we should take his real life views into account when we try find out what is the philosophy of his magnum opus.

One of his views seems to be that Alexander the Great's forceful empire-making was a positive historical development, and it's a pity his empire didn't grow even larger and twice the pity it didn't last longer. So, I don't believe he's nearly as enamored of the idea of independent North as so many posters here. He clearly says he thinks that peoples are better off as a part of a greater whole, as long as their cultural differences are respected. Just as he mentions he doesn't like the idea of walls separating people (as we can clearly see with the Wall and the Northmen vs Free Folk conflict).

[SeanF]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 7:04 AM, dsug said:

 

 

7 minutes ago, lojzelote said:

I'm not saying you have to agree with GRRM's opinions, but IMHO we should take his real life views into account when we try find out what is the philosophy of his magnum opus.

One of his views seems to be that Alexander the Great's forceful empire-making was a positive historical development, and it's a pity his empire didn't grow even larger and twice the pity it didn't last longer. So, I don't believe he's nearly as enamored of the idea of independent North as so many posters here. He clearly says he thinks that peoples are better off as a part of a greater whole, as long as their cultural differences are respected. Just as he mentions he doesn't like the idea of walls separating people (as we can clearly see with the Wall and the Northmen vs Free Folk conflict).

The Chinese like to say "The Empire long-divided, must be united.  The Empire long-united, must be divided" which sums up their political history.  Empires are largely out of fashion these days, but will no doubt come back into fashion at some point.  I'd probably disagree with GRRM's view of Alexander the Great.  IMHO his empire extinguished functioning, if imperfect, democracies, and simply led to wars being waged on a much more gigantic scale than hitherto.  But, you're right.  If GRRM thinks his Empire was a good thing, it will inform the way that he writes the story.

Daenerys herself is likely to view the unity of Westeros as a priority, and to put down any attempt at independence on the part of any of its constituent kingdoms. 

[dsug]

10 hours ago, kg1982 said:

No.  I would rather it be a normal relationship where both parties are equal.  You know like the ones that everyone else has rather than Jon being some submissive housewife to Dany.  How about this they don't have to sleep with each other if one has complete political power over the other.

What other relationships? If we're being techincal, Catelyn was Ned's submissive housewife. Daenerys was Drogo's sex slave. Cersei was sleeping with a servant, a member of her guard. Stannis was very domineering of Selyse. 

In Westeros, if a man marries a woman, he will ALWAYS hold political power over her. 

[GeorgeIAF]

Is the leaked plot legit ? 

[Meera of Tarth]

21 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Is the leaked plot legit ? 

There are some things that have been proved through pics or reliable sources (although we don't know if the detailed explanation is true) but there are also some things revealed from other sources that the leaked didn't mention and are important and some ingongruities.

I would say the leaked knew a lot of things but I don't believe everything is true, although many things seem to be true.

He also changed his mind many times when posting the leaks (like if he was not sure and changed the plot of Brienne, for instance), so of he ends up being totally reliable he is not especially good at telling what he saw and forgets the stories about the characters who are not Jon and Dany (hr gave an enormous amount of detail to these two).

don't be surprised if other people from here tell you everything is true. There is a disagreement on that, and also on the fact that being proven right in some things but not others necessarily means he is totally right or not (depending on the poster).

Anyway, IMHO the leaks are horrible.