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Leaks discussion thread for season 7 vol. 2.


Lord Friendzone

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31 minutes ago, MoIaF said:

I think she's pretty altruistic. The people she rescued had no connection with her whatsoever, they weren't friends or enemies, they just were. She saw that she could do something about it and she did. She eventually goes on to leave these people to rule themselves after destroying their enemies. That's as altruistic as it gets. The people who follow her do so because they want to, because they believe in her, if any of them wanted to walk away Dany wouldn't stop them. 

(the Dothraki follow her because she proved to be the strongest among them. It's their culture to follow the strong). 

 

  32 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I partially agree. Her characterisation is as a rescuer, but not totally altruistic indulgent, he has the Targaryen ruthlessness they mentioned in the video, and it's a constant since season 1 and 2. And the last two seasons she did two things worstly than before IMO. 

As for the literary purpose, I am not sure, but the ending is going to be bittersweet, maybe some people will commit errors and Dany will be one of them. I am not saying she will become as mad as Aerys, but something could happen. It could be to show the realistic view that the heroes have to suffer the scarcities of life (just as the death of Jon Snow).

I agree with that statement, but this could change depending on the circumstances or the advisors.

I can't agree with that, Jorah and Barristan were good advisors, IMHO. Now she only has Tyrion, who is good, but he's only one person.

Today is not my day with the chose of words ;) Yep, I mean he is rough and sometimes very cruel, she is not indulgent/benevolent with everyone, she pretends she is, but only with the ones who are indefense.. This is the word I should have chosen, sorry.

Quote

 

She did give them an opportunity when they first captured her (which is a problem to begin with). She offered them horses and gold for her release and return to Meereen and they laughed in her face. 

So yeah, she totally gave them a chance, they refused it to their own peril. 

 

She was going to kill them as a plan, without letting them know they would die, and she enjoyed it before talking to them about their imminent death and apparently after.

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47 minutes ago, lojzelote said:

The thing about the show is that they aren't capable of subtlety. Had they intended for Dany to turn into an antagonist along the road, it would have been apparent since the start. Their portrayal of Stannis shows it best, I think. He had slightly villanous airs about him since he first appeared.

My impression is that they are trying to portray her as a cool hardass, but they fail to take into account unintended unfortunate implications of some of her actions.

Yes, well said, the show doesn't do subtlety.  I get the opposite "airs" from Dany (in comparison to Stannis).  All one has to do is see the way the scenes are shot (the lighting, the soundtrack, the context).  I mean just look at the contrast between the final two shots of the Season 6 finale; first they show Cersei being crowned with dark lighting and sinister music, then they shift to Dany in brighter lighting and hopeful music.  Not subtle at all

There's not going to be a rug that's pulled out from underneath.  The show has made it clear who we should be rooting for, and by the looks of it, they're all going to end up on the same team by the end of season 7 (if leaks are true).  Yes they'll have the characters commit some questionable acts for the sake of drama and to perhaps make the viewer uneasy, but in the end it's clear who the show wants you to like

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9 minutes ago, Newstar said:

LOL, no. It wasn't the burning she enjoyed, but the fact that she'd turned the tables on a bunch of assholes who were looking forward to gangraping her. Nice try, though.

She enjoyed being Khalesi when Drogo was the Khal and when the Khal dies, there is a place for the his Khalesi. It was not good enough for her. Cake and eat it too I suppose. Show Dany loves to grandstand and that scene, she did not come off as sympathetic. Also, where was the gratitude for her lover, savior, Daario, she threw him out like trash. Did not even offer him a Lordship in Westeros even though she and Jorah would be dead if it were not for him. D&D are not makeing Dany look too good. IF Jon beds his aunt, I fear that nothing good will come of it. Then again, this is a visual show, not books where one has to be a little bit more..... I will stop there.

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1 minute ago, Meera of Tarth said:

  32 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I partially agree. Her characterisation is as a rescuer, but not totally altruistic indulgent, he has the Targaryen ruthlessness they mentioned in the video, and it's a constant since season 1 and 2. And the last two seasons she did two things worstly than before IMO. 

As for the literary purpose, I am not sure, but the ending is going to be bittersweet, maybe some people will commit errors and Dany will be one of them. I am not saying she will become as mad as Aerys, but something could happen. It could be to show the realistic view that the heroes have to suffer the scarcities of life (just as the death of Jon Snow).

I agree with that statement, but this could change depending on the circumstances or the advisors.

I can't agree with that, Jorah and Barristan were good advisors, IMHO. Now she only has Tyrion, who is good, but he's only one person.

Today is not my day with the chose of words ;) Yep, I mean he is rough and sometimes very cruel, she is not indulgent/benevolent with everyone, she pretends she is, but only with the ones who are indefense.. This is the word I should have chosen, sorry.

She was going to kill them as a plan, without letting them know they would, and she enjoyed it before talking to them about their imminent death and apparently after.

Ahahahaha is she a batman villain??? you think she's going to announce her plan to the khals? "Hey, before you get the chance to rape me till I die, I'm gonna burn this temple down, so good luck!" they had captured her, whipped her, threatened to rape her, refused her ultimatum to free her without consequences, and were either going to imprison her in a single building for the rest of her life, or violently kill her. I don't think she needs a monologue to explain why she would want to take them down. 

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9 minutes ago, MoIaF said:

I think Jon will remain a Snow. 

I can't see him choosing to take any name, in the end he'll chose to be the man he made of himself. At least that's how I read his character. 

As for the ending D&D have said in multiple occasions that it'll be the same or very similar as the one in the books. They'll just get there in completely different way. 

I would prefer him to be a Snow or as you put it be his own man, achieving everything as Snow. But, I wouldn't be surprised.if they made him a Targ by the end. If Robb's will is making him a Stark, show might've tried to avoid it... by sticking with his Snow surname and later on change it. I just think his name must be importnt, because why else would Lyanna would whispered it? Why making such a secret out of this? Unless it plays a part.

 

14 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I just have edited my comment, I didn't meant that, just an opportunity, you are right about not a trial.

it is true not all of them are innocent but some are. She makes use of justice very carefully and "justly". That is my example of Mossador, for instance. I found it really odd she behaves that way just after what happened to her friend.

I don't recall that part. How coudl she have done that? If she didn't know who those were? 

I know death of Barry playes a part, but that is what I am referring to, she is very impulsive. If she couldn't control herself in Meereen, how can we know she will always control herself in the future?

Dany knew Khals would not threat her in a good way. That's why we had that conversation with Lazareen and Priestss, as she illustrated Dany her options. Dany is no fool and kinda thought they would threat her this way. So she had a plan in mind. THey don(t thrat women that well, as demonstrated by that Lazreen got three ribs or what broken by her Khal befoe he died.

She tried to give a trial to that Son of the Harpy, Ser Barry wanted it instead of killing him, like Daario proposed. It happened afer the eath of White Rat. He was presumably hiding or being captured after the attack MoiAF said it here. Mossandor took it to his hands and executed him. That's why she had to kill Mossandor for disrspecting her command, like Jon with Janos Slynt.

Dany felt partially vengeance, but given how low she thought of them because of slavery, possibility of being involved in Sons of the Harpy plot and killing of Ser Barry. She had to act in some way, to send the strong message.

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5 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

  32 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I partially agree. Her characterisation is as a rescuer, but not totally altruistic indulgent, he has the Targaryen ruthlessness they mentioned in the video, and it's a constant since season 1 and 2. And the last two seasons she did two things worstly than before IMO. 

As for the literary purpose, I am not sure, but the ending is going to be bittersweet, maybe some people will commit errors and Dany will be one of them. I am not saying she will become as mad as Aerys, but something could happen. It could be to show the realistic view that the heroes have to suffer the scarcities of life (just as the death of Jon Snow).

I agree with that statement, but this could change depending on the circumstances or the advisors.

I can't agree with that, Jorah and Barristan were good advisors, IMHO. Now she only has Tyrion, who is good, but he's only one person.

Today is not my day with the chose of words ;) Yep, I mean he is rough and sometimes very cruel, she is not indulgent/benevolent with everyone, she pretends she is, but only with the ones who are indefense.. This is the word I should have chosen, sorry.

She was going to kill them as a plan, without letting them know they would die, and she enjoyed it before talking to them about their imminent death and apparently after.

Not true at all. She did not plan on killing them form the beginning. I'm talking about the scene before they reach Vaes Dothrak when she is brought to the khal and offers him horses and gold if he returns her to Meereen. 

She enjoyed turning the table on them because they thought they could steel her life and lock her away and use her. 

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4 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

She enjoyed being Khalesi when Drogo was the Khal and when the Khal dies, there is a place for the his Khalesi. It was not good enough for her. Cake and eat it too I suppose. Show Dany loves to grandstand and that scene, she did not come off as sympathetic. Also, where was the gratitude for her lover, savior, Daario, she threw him out like trash. Did not even offer him a Lordship in Westeros even though she and Jorah would be dead if it were not for him. D&D are not makeing Dany look too good. IF Jon beds his aunt, I fear that nothing good will come of it.

if you rewatch the scene, you'll notice that is a pretty tough decision for her. it was a long scene, and a heartfelt conversation. she made her decision, but she didn't enjoy it. 

i think some of the people here have been watching too much reality television. all this talk about boy toys and dumping guys like trash is making me feel like on a VH1 show. 

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In the books we get a single perspective in each chapter.  All we know of Daenerys, Viserys, and the Dothraki is from Daenerys' perspective.  I believe that her perspective is somewhat distorted.  She shows heavy signs of being a true narcissist in both the books and the series.  We will get the reveal in the end.  ;)

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Just now, MoIaF said:

Not true at all. She did not plan on killing them form the beginning. I'm talking about the scene before they reach Vaes Dothrak when she is brought to the khal and offers him horses and gold if he returns her to Meereen. 

She enjoyed turning the table on them because they thought they could steel her life and lock her away and use her. 

That's not incompatible with being extremely impulsive in a future and this scene being a hint of it.

2 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Dany knew Khals would not threat her in a good way. That's why we had that conversation with Lazareen and Priestss, as she illustrated Dany her options. Dany is no fool and kinda thought they would threat her this way. So she had a plan in mind. THey don(t thrat women that well, as demonstrated by that Lazreen got three ribs or what broken by her Khal befoe he died.

She tried to give a trial to that Son of the Harpy, Ser Barry wanted it instead of killing him, like Daario proposed. It happened afer the eath of White Rat. He was presumably hiding or being captured after the attack MoiAF said it here. Mossandor took it to his hands and executed him. That's why she had to kill Mossandor for disrspecting her command, like Jon with Janos Slynt.

Dany felt partially vengeance, but given how low she thought of them because of slavery, possibility of being involved in Sons of the Harpy plot and killing of Ser Barry. She had to act in some way, to send the strong message.

That's well-reasoned, thanks. I agree I might have missed the part of the strong message. However, i still have issues with that scene.

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4 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

 

She was going to kill them as a plan, without letting them know they would, and she enjoyed it before talking to them about their imminent death and apparently after.

And?

Arya was obviously enjoying herself during her scene with Walder Frey. She was smiling at him during his terrible realization that the pies were filled with his sons' flesh and she was smiling when she cut his throat.

Sansa was smirking when she was listening to the hounds tearing a living Ramsay apart.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

She enjoyed being Khalesi when Drogo was the Khal and when the Khal dies, there is a place for the his Khalesi. It was not good enough for her. Cake and eat it too I suppose. Show Dany loves to grandstand and that scene, she did not come off as sympathetic. Also, where was the gratitude for her lover, savior, Daario, she threw him out like trash. Did not even offer him a Lordship in Westeros even though she and Jorah would be dead if it were not for him. D&D are not makeing Dany look too good. IF Jon beds his aunt, I fear that nothing good will come of it. Then again, this is a visual show, not books where one has to be a little bit more..... I will stop there.

Daario is a sellsword and he wasn't in it for a gold or Lordship. He wanted her mainly because of how strong she is and powerful she is. What she represents. As he said "who can follow Daenerys Stormborn, Mother of Dragons.".

Which brings me to the point of why she dumped him. It's not like these things didn't happen, and she was terrified because she thought she loved or cared for him. Not only he would be a liability in Westeros, as she need a marriage, but in the end she's not sure of her feelings anymore. Not like she enjoyed dumping Daario because even she didn't felt romantic feelings towards him, she still is not cruel like that.

But one thing I don't understand. Dany wants a political marriage and something that profits her. But Jon pledged fealty to her, basically eliminating this.advantage for a marriage  So, in the end it was just a red heering of political marriage and it will be out of love or no marriage at all?

As for what good can come out of Jon and Dany relationship. It is needed from storytelling point of view. some good juicy scenes.

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6 minutes ago, lojzelote said:

And?

Arya was obviously enjoying herself during her scene with Walder Frey. She was smiling at him during his terrible realization that the pies were filled with his sons' flesh and she was smiling when she cut his throat.

Sansa was smirking when she was listening to the hounds tearing a living Ramsay apart.

 

 

Oh yes, I also have issues with that, especially  Arya's part. She is only sadistic in the finales. One can enjoy killing WF of course, but I don't like how they portray her as a sadist (Frey Pies..) instead of a clean assassin to avenge her family. And they do this every season....since season 5.

@DutchArya knows what I am talking about.

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3 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Oh yes, I also have issues with that, especially  Arya's part. She is only sadistic in the finales. One can enjoy killing WF of course, but I don't like how they portray her as a sadist (Frey Pies..) instead of a clean assassin to avenge her family. And they do this every season....since season 5.

@DutchArya knows what I am talking about.

My wife said Arya looked as if she was having an orgasm as she watched Walder Frey die.

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6 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Daario is a sellsword and he wasn't in it for a gold or Lordship. He wanted her mainly because of how strong she is and powerful she is. What she represents. As he said "who can follow Daenerys Stormborn, Mother of Dragons.".

Which brings me to the point of why she dumped him. It's not like these things didn't happen, and she was terrified because she thought she loved or cared for him. Not only he would be a liability in Westeros, as she need a marriage, but in the end she's not sure of her feelings anymore. Not like she enjoyed dumping Daario because even she didn't felt romantic feelings towards him, she still is not cruel like that.

But one thing I don't understand. Dany wants a political marriage and something that profits her. But Jon pledged fealty to her, basically eliminating this.advantage for a marriage  So, in the end it was just a red heering of political marriage and it will be out of love or no marriage at all?

As for what good can come out of Jon and Dany relationship. It is needed from storytelling point of view. some good juicy scenes.

The logic of marriage to Jon (if it happens) would be that any children would be Targaryens on both sides. 

I entirely understand why Daario could not be suitable spouse.  But, he deserved better (simply as a loyal and competent commander) than he got.

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46 minutes ago, dsug said:

if it was the other way around, and Randyll Tarly captured and executed Daenerys Targaryen, would we say he is crazy? no, we would say he killed a rival in war. 

I know that many rulers do go crazy, and daenerys may be one of them. but the act of being at war and killing members of the opposing side is not good evidence of that. that's her being a competent general. 

It depends on the manner and circumstances of his actions. Kim Jong Un executing someone in his cabinet for falling asleep during a meeting is different than the German war prisoners being executed after the trials at Nuremburg. If Randyll Tarly was in a peaceful meeting with Dany and during it just slashed her throat out of potential fear, I would argue he was a little mad. But killing her in a battle or executing her after committing atrocities against the kingdoms could be justified.

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25 minutes ago, dsug said:

if you rewatch the scene, you'll notice that is a pretty tough decision for her. it was a long scene, and a heartfelt conversation. she made her decision, but she didn't enjoy it. 

i think some of the people here have been watching too much reality television. all this talk about boy toys and dumping guys like trash is making me feel like on a VH1 show. 

She did not shed a tear. Show Dany has a problem with showing gratitude, unless it is towards the Imp, who F's up and gets promoted.

Care to walk it back?

 

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1 minute ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

She did not shed a tear. Show Dany has a problem with showing gratitude, unless it is towards the Imp, who F's up and gets promoted.

Care to walk it back?

 

The gratitude of princes is proverbial.  She had no more use for him.

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16 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Daario is a sellsword and he wasn't in it for a gold or Lordship. He wanted her mainly because of how strong she is and powerful she is. What she represents. As he said "who can follow Daenerys Stormborn, Mother of Dragons.".

Which brings me to the point of why she dumped him. It's not like these things didn't happen, and she was terrified because she thought she loved or cared for him. Not only he would be a liability in Westeros, as she need a marriage, but in the end she's not sure of her feelings anymore. Not like she enjoyed dumping Daario because even she didn't felt romantic feelings towards him, she still is not cruel like that.

But one thing I don't understand. Dany wants a political marriage and something that profits her. But Jon pledged fealty to her, basically eliminating this.advantage for a marriage  So, in the end it was just a red heering of political marriage and it will be out of love or no marriage at all?

As for what good can come out of Jon and Dany relationship. It is needed from storytelling point of view. some good juicy scenes.

Look, I cannot stand book Daario for a multitude of reasons. Show Daario seems to have been brushed aside rather abruptly and got nothing for it. It struck me as cold and undeserving. The show writers placed Dany in a "dead end" sort of speak and while it seemed highly unlikely that Daario and Jorah would be able to pull off what they did, it was life saving to Dany. Jorah was forgiven his treason and Daario, whom both of them owed their lives was dumped and even worse, take care of the Mereen and the "heap" I am leaving it in. She took the Army and the dragons with her, so, who is the force of power there now? I understand that Dany is doing what the show runners want her to do but for a guy that was clearly loyal to her, she used him and he got little or nothing in return.

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