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How Daenerys will die


TyrionTLannister

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Just now, Woman of War said:

Sorry, my mistake, wrong thread. Sometimes I still look into book threads though not very much new can be discussed by now. I did not pay attention. You are right of course. Delete whoever wants to.

But I think something similar, though maybe not as brutal, some guy who makes use of her, will happen in the books as well. 

 

That's okay. As for Sansa and rape , i think Littlefinger will try to fuck sansa at some point. 

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People takes Mirri's statement about her 'womb bearing a living child and Drogo then being as he was' to be a prophecy that she will have a kid, then die in childbirth, reuniting with Drogo in the Nightlands.  I assume that's why the Dany dying in childbirth theory is so prevalent.  

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People takes Mirri's statement about her 'womb bearing a living child and Drogo then being as he was' to be a prophecy that she will have a kid, then die in childbirth, reuniting with Drogo in the Nightlands.  I assume that's why the Dany dying in childbirth theory is so prevalent.  

Ah, got it. It doesn't necessarily mean Dany will die in childbirth. None of the other conditions Mirri listed seem to be a cause for Dany's death. She could give birth and then die for completely unrelated reasons. 

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I'm of the opinion that Dany (and Jon's) fate is dependent on what happens with the Others.  I see 2 scenarios:

1)  The Others are defeated by series end.  Truly defeated, as in no longer a threat to humanity.  In this scenario, Jon and Dany will have served their purpose and can both die, or at least one of them.  My money would be on it being Dany if only one of them, in battle.    

2)  The Others are not completely defeated, humanity is faced with a Long Night 2.0.  A war to destroy the Others that will last a generation.  In this scenario, I think both Jon and Dany have a strong chance of surviving, carrying on as the leaders of humanity in a brutal war for the dawn.  

That's the only circumstance under which Martin would leave both Jon and Dany alive imo, because it undercuts the 'happily ever after' or 'disney' aspect of keeping them both alive.       

A winter that lasts a generation?  Their people would starve by the millions.  Battle against the undead?  That's the stuff of nightmares.  The surviving protagonists would be left to face a living hell.  

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I'm of the opinion that Dany (and Jon's) fate is dependent on what happens with the Others.  I see 2 scenarios:

1)  The Others are defeated by series end.  Truly defeated, as in no longer a threat to humanity.  In this scenario, Jon and Dany will have served their purpose and can both die, or at least one of them.  My money would be on it being Dany if only one of them, in battle.    

2)  The Others are not completely defeated, humanity is faced with a Long Night 2.0.  A war to destroy the Others that will last a generation.  In this scenario, I think both Jon and Dany have a strong chance of surviving, carrying on as the leaders of humanity in a brutal war for the dawn.  

That's the only circumstance under which Martin would leave both Jon and Dany alive imo, because it undercuts the 'happily ever after' or 'disney' aspect of keeping them both alive.       

A winter that lasts a generation?  Their people would starve by the millions.  Battle against the undead?  That's the stuff of nightmares.  The surviving protagonists would be left to face a living hell.  

I agree. But didn't GRRM say the seasons would stabilize in the end? 

I always get the impression from his talk about how the characters age that not that much time will pass between the beginning of the Long Night and the end. Say, a few years at the most. 

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Something self-sacrificial and flame-y, probably.

I just hope it's not child-birth. If that happens, Jon's death better be by castration. Or at least have all the male characters get shriveled balls or something.

On 18/11/2016 at 9:45 AM, chrisdaw said:

Dany will attempt to sacrifice her and Jon's child in her womb. Jon will either kill her to prevent this or execute her after the fact for the attempt. Or after being prevented or not being able to bring herself to sacrifice her's and Jon's child Dany will give herself to the flames.

She will then rise as the dragon, joining Drogo and Rhaego in the second life inside of Drogon, prompting Drogon to awaken as a Balerion sized super dragon and end the long night.

Always knew Jon was a pro-lifer.

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I have a strong suspicion Arya, acting on behalf of the Faceless Men, will kill or at least try to kill Dany. The Faceless Men are already trying to infiltrate the Citadel-likely to obtain information on how to kill dragons-and either Dany has made enough enemies that someone would hire an FM to kill her or they want to kill her for their own FM reasons. 

Further, GRRM always said the ending would be bittersweet. What could be more bittersweet than Jon and Arya reuniting only because Jon witnesses Arya taking out Dany? GRRM also originally had Jon and Arya in love and it fits in some way for Arya to kill Dany if Jon and Dany ever develop feelings for one another. 

 

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Dany's end is best foreshadowed in this piece.

Quote

 

"He was no true king," Dany said scornfully. "He did no justice. Justice . . . that's what kings are for."

Ser Jorah had no answer. He only smiled, and touched her hair, so lightly. It was enough.

 

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That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.

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She woke suddenly in the darkness of her cabin, still flush with triumph. Balerion seemed to wake with her, and she heard the faint creak of wood, water lapping against the hull, a football on the deck above her head. And something else.

Someone was in the cabin with her.

"Irri? Jhiqui? Where are you?" Her handmaids did not respond. It was too black to see, but she could hear them breathing. "Jorah, is that you?"

"They sleep," a woman said. "They all sleep." The voice was very close. "Even dragons must sleep."

 

Though it's a continuous passage I break into three parts as it deals with three events to come.

In the first she is referring to Robert's failure to do justice and punish Tywin for the murders of the princess and royal children. A king's purpose is justice, thus if Jon is a true king he should punish anyone for sacrificing or attempting to sacrifice a child, even if they're trying to save a world by waking a dragon from stone. This is the Stark way as per the current time, as per Ned. Ned held a child's life above all else, including his honour. It is Jon's arc to follow this through, to embrace Ned as his father and reject the Targaryen way of fire and blood. First was his rejection of Craster's sacrifices for survival, then his baby swap, next up he'll learn of how Stannis sacrificed his only child to wake a dragon and for it got dick all. Starks, anti child sacrifice, under any and all circumstances. If Dany is going to sacrifice their child she must be stopped, even if she's right and that's the only way to wake the dragon and save the world, and after she's stopped justice must be done.

Dany's arc is headed towards the sacrifice. That is how Targs do, it's their words, fire and blood, blood is sacrifice. Dany's dragons come at the cost of children's blood. Rhaego, the cost she does not deny knowing. Hazzea, Dany could not remember her name, if I look back I am lost, point being no regrets.

And so it culminates and there's the name of the series, ice and fire, preservation vs consumption.

And so Dany dies, failing to make the sacrifice, Jon prevails and the little girl survives. But it doesn't matter, Dany was wrong, the sacrifice of the child was not required, never was, only Dany herself needed to die and wake inside the dragon, because she's Dany, the last dragon. So when her body burns she awakens, and that's the third passage which is really the second in the sequence of foreshadowing here. She awakes, a second life inside the dragon, sheds its stone, and it becomes like Balerion. And inside the dragon with her are others, Drogo and Rhaego. The kicking (football) above her head is someone climbing aboard the dragon, Jon.

The second passage is the final in sequence, and is the dragon she becomes destroying the Others and ending the Long Night. There's a very potent in there relating to her arc, this one.

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This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.

This isn't so much about the battle at the trident, this is about Dany's life. The human and the dragon one. Dany was never really meant to be human, she has always supposed to have been a dragon. Her life is pain and suffering, an uncomfortable existence of constant self doubt, a nightmare. Now that may be the same for other characters, so to make the point I'll quote her dreams.

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Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

Note the cleansing, the removal of fear and pain.

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"… want to wake the dragon …"

Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. "Faster," they cried, "faster, faster." She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. "Faster!" the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew.

 And there's Quaithe, forever there to remind her who she really is.

Inside the dragon is her home, it's what is really behind her red door. Here's one red door foreshadowing it.

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The doors to the Great Hall were set in the mouth of a stone dragon. He told the servants to leave him outside. It would be better to enter alone; he must not appear feeble. Leaning heavily on his cane, Cressen climbed the last few steps and hobbled beneath the gateway teeth. A pair of guardsmen opened the heavy red doors before him, unleashing a sudden blast of noise and light. Cressen stepped down into the dragon's maw.

The only actual red doors in the series besides those in Dany's memory. They open the way inside the dragon.

This set turned red.
 

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At ground level the Great Pyramid of Meereen was a hushed place, full of dust and shadows. Its outer walls were thirty feet thick. Within them, sounds echoed off arches of many-colored bricks, and amongst the stables, stalls, and storerooms. They passed beneath three massive arches, down a torchlit ramp into the vaults beneath the pyramid, past cisterns, dungeons, and torture chambers where slaves had been scourged and skinned and burned with red-hot irons. Finally they came to a pair of huge iron doors with rusted hinges, guarded by Unsullied.

At her command, one produced an iron key. The door opened, hinges shrieking. Daenerys Targaryen stepped into the hot heart of darkness and stopped at the lip of a deep pit. Forty feet below, her dragons raised their heads. Four eyes burned through the shadows—two of molten gold and two of bronze.

 

The doors that hold her dragons in the bowels of the pyramid. Note the red-hot iron pincers, note content with that, here

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Dany did not want to talk about the dragons. Farmers still came to her court with burned bones, complaining of missing sheep, though Drogon had not returned to the city. Some reported seeing him north of the river, above the grass of the Dothraki sea. Down in the pit, Viserion had snapped one of his chains; he and Rhaegal grew more savage every day. Once the iron doors had glowed red-hot, her Unsullied told her, and no one dared to touch them for a day. "Astapor is under siege as well."

GRRM makes the doors to the dragons red.

Since there's talk of Tyrion and Dany here I'll explain that. It's given in Saan's retelling of the AA story. Here Dany is AA, the sacred flames are her womb, the labouring pregnancy, Lightbringer the dragon that will end the Long Night.
 

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“A burning sword,” corrected Davos.

“Burnt,” said Salladhor Saan, “and be glad of that, my friend. Do you know the tale of the forging of Lightbringer? I shall tell it to you. It was a time when darkness lay heavy on the world. To oppose it, the hero must have a hero’s blade, oh, like none that had ever been. And so for thirty days and thirty nights Azor Ahai labored sleepless in the temple, forging a blade in the sacred fires. Heat and hammer and fold, heat and hammer and fold, oh, yes, until the sword was done. Yet when he plunged it into water to temper the steel it burst asunder.

“Being a hero, it was not for him to shrug and go in search of excellent grapes such as these, so again he began. The second time it took him fifty days and fifty nights, and this sword seemed even finer than the first. Azor Ahai captured a lion, to temper the blade by plunging it through the beast’s red heart, but once more the steel shattered and split. Great was his woe and great was his sorrow then, for he knew what he must do.

“A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. ‘Nissa Nissa’ he said to her, for that was her name, ‘bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.’ She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.

 

Drogo achieved a second life in the Drogon through the sacrifice of a child of his blood and Targ blood. Euron is attempting to do the same, hence why he needs Dany to fly, and he will succeed (though it will be with Arianne not Dany, see the line about Arianne burning as bright as any man and compare it to the description of a Khal's afterlife with relation to Drogo becoming Drogon). When Euron succeeds Drogon will become the stone beast, part dragon, part kraken (fore Euron's blood) and part man. GRRM's Cthulhu, and stone because Euron will have greyscale when he takes the jump from the tower.

Thus Dany will have to wake the dragon from stone, Drogon from what Euron turns him into. To do so Dany will think she needs to sacrifice a child, and so she'll attempt to get pregnant, and she'll choose dragon blooded fathers for the cause. And here is where the story above begins. First she will try Aurane water, but her attempt will fail, she will miscarriage. Second she will try Tyrion, because Tyrion will ride Viserion and so she'll assume he is dragon blooded. But she will also miscarriage that child. Lastly will be Jon, and it will work in that she'll bear a living child, the baby girl she says she'll never and the bastard Jon says he'll never father, but the sacrifice part won't go to plan. But the child was never needed, Drogo and Euron needed a dragon blooded one to make it work, but Dany is a Targ herself, and like Aerys thought he could (and maybe he could have if there were a dragon about for him to second life into), she can and will be reborn as the dragon, no child sacrifice necessary.

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On 17. 11. 2016 at 8:38 PM, bent branch said:

If Dany dies, it will be because she sacrifices herself to save the world. The idea of Dany dying in childbirth is uninspired to say the least.

But you can't say is illogical. George loves this irony thing going on and it would mirror Lyanna, Rhaella her mother. Motherhood was always a strong part of her arc. A lot of people would hate it, I don't know personally but you can't say it's not out of realm of possibilities.

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On 11/17/2016 at 1:44 PM, khal drogon said:

That is even more ridiculous. It's a poorly constructed theory that fails to make sense even after making some mental gymnastics. Why would Tyrion impregnate her?

Not all pregnancies are planned, especially in this medieval setting with hardly any birth control. I think the series hints at Dany dying from the complications of childbirth with one of MMD's conditions of Dany seeing Drogo again being "until you bear a living child." There is no way Drogo is going to be resurrected, and I think it implies that Dany will be with him again in the afterlife, especially given the high mortality rate among monarchs in this series. The last line I think could hint her cause of death as being childbirth; she manages to become "Mother" literally.

If that doesn't sound like a death fitting for her, I would remind you that in this series there are no glorious deaths for monarchs with deaths being such as: poisoned at one's own wedding, whacked by a Faceless Man hired by a brother, murdered at an uncle's wedding, gored by a boar while intoxicated, killed by a shadowbaby while getting dressed for battle or in the first case, being dragged from behind your throne and having your throat slit by your own KG. Cersei herself is likely to be strangled by her brother-lover. 

That just leaves the question of who the father would be. I don't think it would be Jon given they are foils to another, and opposites don't attract in relationships. Jon also likely wouldn't be down with marrying his aunt given the taboo against incest. I also think they won't meet until the very end of ADoS.

My guess in this case is Tyrion as the father as they are likely to spend a lot of time together. It isn't in the vein of "Tyrion deserves a smoking hot wife," but that maybe they could find comfort in one another having come from abusive family backgrounds and trying to find themselves and make their ways into the world. Dany could be for what Tyrion what Sansa was for Sandor and Brienne for Jaime, she could manage to bring out the best in him and help him become a better human being without sacrificing her own character or importance in the story. Tyrion could do likewise for her, and for once she has a husband who genuinely does care for her (as opposed to Drogo and Hizdahr). Of course, I think he would predecease her. 

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On 19/11/2016 at 4:01 PM, Smirking Knight said:

I have a strong suspicion Arya, acting on behalf of the Faceless Men, will kill or at least try to kill Dany. The Faceless Men are already trying to infiltrate the Citadel-likely to obtain information on how to kill dragons-and either Dany has made enough enemies that someone would hire an FM to kill her or they want to kill her for their own FM reasons. 

 

 

And Dany would die at Winterfell like Weese at Harrenhall ? Killed by her loved dragon, as Weese was killed by his loved dog ? ;) 

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14 hours ago, Fire Eater said:

Not all pregnancies are planned, especially in this medieval setting with hardly any birth control. I think the series hints at Dany dying from the complications of childbirth with one of MMD's conditions of Dany seeing Drogo again being "until you bear a living child." There is no way Drogo is going to be resurrected, and I think it implies that Dany will be with him again in the afterlife, especially given the high mortality rate among monarchs in this series. The last line I think could hint her cause of death as being childbirth; she manages to become "Mother" literally.

If that doesn't sound like a death fitting for her, I would remind you that in this series there are no glorious deaths for monarchs with deaths being such as: poisoned at one's own wedding, whacked by a Faceless Man hired by a brother, murdered at an uncle's wedding, gored by a boar while intoxicated, killed by a shadowbaby while getting dressed for battle or in the first case, being dragged from behind your throne and having your throat slit by your own KG. Cersei herself is likely to be strangled by her brother-lover. 

All the other conditions MMD listed are obviously prerequisites for Dany's death, not direct causes. So while Dany will give birth before she dies, she'll die for an unrelated reason.

It's true that monarchs often suffer inglorious deaths. But they generally die as a result of their decisions. Renly was killed because he refused to recognize Stannis as the King, Robb was killed because he broke his oath, etc. They were faced with a quandary, they picked the wrong option, and they died. Dany dying in childbirth would have nothing whatsoever to do with her decisions. It would just be completely random. GRRM wants to defy our expectations, but he is more concerned with telling a good story.

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That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper’s rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.

She woke suddenly in the darkness of her cabin, still flush with triumph. Balerion seemed to wake with her, and she heard the faint creak of wood, water lapping against the hull, a footfall on the deck above her head. And something else.

Someone was in the cabin with her.

“Irri? Jhiqui? Where are you?” Her handmaids did not respond. It was too black to see, but she could hear them breathing. “Jorah, is that you?”

“They sleep,” a woman said. “They all sleep.” The voice was very close. “Even dragons must sleep.” - ASOS Dany

 

Sleep could be a metaphor for death in this passage, so "even dragons must sleep" could foreshadow the death of Dany, a dragon. The first paragraph refers to Dany killing the Others with dragonfire. Drogon is Balerion reborn, so Balerion could be a stand-in for Drogon. Then Balerion waking with Dany could foreshadow Drogon coming back from "sleep", or death. 

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On 11/20/2016 at 8:16 PM, Lord Friendzone said:

But you can't say is illogical. George loves this irony thing going on and it would mirror Lyanna, Rhaella her mother. Motherhood was always a strong part of her arc. A lot of people would hate it, I don't know personally but you can't say it's not out of realm of possibilities.

People should speaking for George I would say. People have these ideas like how Martin loves irony and how he will always go against the tropes subverting them and these ideas are sure recipe for disappointment. It would be a bad story if everything is ironical and every trope is subverted.

Personally I am one of those people who would hate this type of ending because it is not a natural end for a main character. It would feel arbitrary and would feel like there is author's hand in this. Also people dying of childbirth is already overdone in this story so it would be redundant. I hope George doesn't have this ending in his mind.

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2 minutes ago, khal drogon said:

People should speaking for George I would say. People have these ideas like how Martin loves irony and how he will always go against the tropes subverting them and these ideas are sure recipe for disappointment. It would be a bad story if everything is ironical and every trope is subverted.

Personally I am one of those people who would hate this type of ending because it is not a natural end for a main character. It would feel arbitrary and would feel like there is author's hand in this. Also people dying of childbirth is already overdone in this story so it would be redundant. I hope George doesn't have this ending in his mind.

Since it's unversally believed Dany will bear a living child at the end. Is she gonna live and rule, and be happy? Yeah, call me pessimist but ain't see this happening. Not with George.

Rhaella died, Lyanna and Joanna. It happens because it is a common thing and motherhood is one of her themes. It's just this fitting irony that she wanted child so bad, that she'll die giving a birth to her daughter/son.

 

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30 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Since it's unversally believed Dany will bear a living child at the end. Is she gonna live and rule, and be happy? Yeah, call me pessimist but ain't see this happening. Not with George.

Rhaella died, Lyanna and Joanna. It happens because it is a common thing and motherhood is one of her themes. It's just this fitting irony that she wanted child so bad, that she'll die giving a birth to her daughter/son.

 

That is not a universal belief at all.

 

 

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22 hours ago, Fire Eater said:

Not all pregnancies are planned, especially in this medieval setting with hardly any birth control. I think the series hints at Dany dying from the complications of childbirth with one of MMD's conditions of Dany seeing Drogo again being "until you bear a living child." There is no way Drogo is going to be resurrected, and I think it implies that Dany will be with him again in the afterlife, especially given the high mortality rate among monarchs in this series. The last line I think could hint her cause of death as being childbirth; she manages to become "Mother" literally.

If that doesn't sound like a death fitting for her, I would remind you that in this series there are no glorious deaths for monarchs with deaths being such as: poisoned at one's own wedding, whacked by a Faceless Man hired by a brother, murdered at an uncle's wedding, gored by a boar while intoxicated, killed by a shadowbaby while getting dressed for battle or in the first case, being dragged from behind your throne and having your throat slit by your own KG. Cersei herself is likely to be strangled by her brother-lover. 

That just leaves the question of who the father would be. I don't think it would be Jon given they are foils to another, and opposites don't attract in relationships. Jon also likely wouldn't be down with marrying his aunt given the taboo against incest. I also think they won't meet until the very end of ADoS.

My guess in this case is Tyrion as the father as they are likely to spend a lot of time together. It isn't in the vein of "Tyrion deserves a smoking hot wife," but that maybe they could find comfort in one another having come from abusive family backgrounds and trying to find themselves and make their ways into the world. Dany could be for what Tyrion what Sansa was for Sandor and Brienne for Jaime, she could manage to bring out the best in him and help him become a better human being without sacrificing her own character or importance in the story. Tyrion could do likewise for her, and for once she has a husband who genuinely does care for her (as opposed to Drogo and Hizdahr). Of course, I think he would predecease her. 

I don't believe what MMD said is a prophecy. Even if it is true the wordings say Drogo would "return" which is never gonna happen like the rest of the things she said. Dany meeting him in the afterlife is not Drogo "returning". Her becoming a "mother" wouldn't really matter if she dies giving birth to a child. 

Because those monarchs are not the story's protagonists. Even then I don't find the deaths of the people mentioned by you trivial or unfitting or arbitrary however you may try to simplify it. Robert's death by boar doesn't matter to the story but Cersei's plot to kill him matters. The manner of their deaths are closely connected to the story and that's why it fits and natural. A childbirth won't connect to the plot very much and it would be an arbitrary end to the story.

How would you even guess such things. Dany hasn't met him yet in the books so how could you even know on what basis their relationship will be formed and how their relationship would be? It doesn't have any basis other than they would spend time together. It sounds really like a wish of you than a theory. 

50 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Since it's unversally believed Dany will bear a living child at the end. Is she gonna live and rule, and be happy? Yeah, call me pessimist but ain't see this happening. Not with George.

Rhaella died, Lyanna and Joanna. It happens because it is a common thing and motherhood is one of her themes. It's just this fitting irony that she wanted child so bad, that she'll die giving a birth to her daughter/son.

 

No it is not universally believed. A lot of people believe she would never give birth to a living child. Her living and being happy doesn't mean she would rule and get the expected happy ending. Nor the alternative is her dying with childbirth. There are more possibilities for how she would live or how she would die.    

No George doesn't do deaths because what is common in medieval times but because what the plot needs. Joanna, Rhaella and Lyanna are not even in the story. Those people never had a proper story and they are defined by their deaths by childbirth. They died because their deaths created plots. Joanna died because that's why Tywin and Cersei should hate Tyrion. Rhaella died because Viserys and Dany has to live as orphans. Lyanna died because that's how the TOJ plot needed it. Their deaths are not an end but a starting point for their children. But what would Dany's death by childbirth possibly accomplish? How such an end would fit the story? Her always wishing for a child and she never lives to see the child is pretty cruel even for Martin. Such kind of irony on a main character will be anti-climactic and irritating than being tragic. A death by childbirth would not even be made tragic because of the arbitrariness and that's why I don't think such an ending would fit.

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