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[SPOILERS] Fantastic Beast and Why to Avoid Them


Yukle

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It's a fun movie to watch, as long as you don't go into it expecting something truly amazing.

The only thing that really bothers me is the fact Grindelwald is able to order the summary execution of two people on his own authority, but killing him isn't an option, even as he brags he'll escape no problem.

(I also left the theater feeling worried about the little girl from the orphanage. I hope someone finds her and takes care of her)

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18 hours ago, Pliskin said:

There may still be a reason in subsequent movies as to why Voldemort didn't follow the same approach.

I think the reason is that the story was poorly written in this instance, to be honest. Trying to make the canon work for all films is going to be impossible.

It felt like fan fiction.

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9 hours ago, Yukle said:

I think the reason is that the story was poorly written in this instance, to be honest. Trying to make the canon work for all films is going to be impossible.

It felt like fan fiction.

To be fair, Rowling always added a bunch of stuff to the magic in her world with each book, sometimes on the verge of creating contradictions. Take for example the whole wand thing in the 7th book. That's something that should have been taken into consideration from book 1. How many wands does Harry own considering that the disarming charm was his #1 go to spell?

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1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

To be fair, Rowling always added a bunch of stuff to the magic in her world with each book, sometimes on the verge of creating contradictions. Take for example the whole wand thing in the 7th book. That's something that should have been taken into consideration from book 1. How many wands does Harry own considering that the disarming charm was his #1 go to spell?

Huh? Isn't that rule only for the Elder Wand?

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25 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Pretty sure it's not. The wand chooses the wizard was an idea that Rowling did mention in the first book, but was not developed until the final book.

Yes, but I meant the disarming charm. The Elder Wand is the only one I thought to switch owner like that. Due to the curse.

But I'm far from being an expert on HP.

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16 minutes ago, Theda Baratheon said:

I'm pretty sure this was always a point established that the wand chooses the wizard 

Yes, but in the beginning it was only implied that this happens when someone needs to get a new wand. It was never mentioned that if a wizard is disarmed, he or she may lose possession of the wand.

 

6 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Yes, but I meant the disarming charm. The Elder Wand is the only one I thought to switch owner like that. Due to the curse.

But I'm far from being an expert on HP.

Well I'm not sure about that. It's been awhile since I read the book. In the case of the elder wand it may be that this transfer of ownership is more potent, since Harry never actually disarmed Draco of the elder wand, he disarmed him of other wands, yet that somehow made him the master of the elder wand. Which in my opinion is a plot that threaded on paper thin ice.

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1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

Well I'm not sure about that. It's been awhile since I read the book. In the case of the elder wand it may be that this transfer of ownership is more potent, since Harry never actually disarmed Draco of the elder wand, he disarmed him of other wands, yet that somehow made him the master of the elder wand. Which in my opinion is a plot that threaded on paper thin ice.

Yes, it's very thin, but that's another subject. As far as I understand, only the Elder Wand is subject to owner switch, because the point is that anyone who can best the owner in a duel becomes the owner. It's the paradoxical solution to the curse: no one can best the owner of the Elder Wand. Because he himself becomes the de facto owner.

But that doesn't imply anything for the other wands.

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1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

Yes, but in the beginning it was only implied that this happens when someone needs to get a new wand. It was never mentioned that if a wizard is disarmed, he or she may lose possession of the wand.

 

ooooh yeah, fair point. still haven't seen fantastic beasts yet, but despite the bad review am going to see it in cinema. went to see all the harry potter ones and its one of the few movies my whole family are going to watch together so that will be nice.

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1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

Yes, it's very thin, but that's another subject. As far as I understand, only the Elder Wand is subject to owner switch, because the point is that anyone who can best the owner in a duel becomes the owner. It's the paradoxical solution to the curse: no one can best the owner of the Elder Wand. Because he himself becomes the de facto owner.

But that doesn't imply anything for the other wands.

Didn't Voldemort take the wand from Lucius in Deathly Hallows so he could have pursued Harry? Now, I have no idea whether the Voldemort truly became the master of the wand, but he did use it in Battle of 7 Potters rather well. Then again, Lucius' wand exploded when it attacked Harry, while Voldemort's wand didn't.

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1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

Yes, it's very thin, but that's another subject. As far as I understand, only the Elder Wand is subject to owner switch, because the point is that anyone who can best the owner in a duel becomes the owner. It's the paradoxical solution to the curse: no one can best the owner of the Elder Wand. Because he himself becomes the de facto owner.

But that doesn't imply anything for the other wands.

I am fairly certain that when Harry has a conversation about wand ownership with Ollivander, the wand-maker, they are talking about wands in general, not just the elder wand. Though the subject of the elder wand is brought in their conversation. It might merit a re-read. Seeing as how I plan to read the new book, The Cursed Child, I should go back and read some of the older stuff.

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1 hour ago, Risto said:

Didn't Voldemort take the wand from Lucius in Deathly Hallows so he could have pursued Harry? Now, I have no idea whether the Voldemort truly became the master of the wand, but he did use it in Battle of 7 Potters rather well. Then again, Lucius' wand exploded when it attacked Harry, while Voldemort's wand didn't.

Harry became master after disarming Draco. Harry let Voldemort believe that he was the owner of the wand because Snape killed Dumbledore. But the real master after Dumbledore was Draco who disarmed him. Hence the ending and Voldemort's defeat.

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17 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Harry became master after disarming Draco. Harry let Voldemort believe that he was the owner of the wand because Snape killed Dumbledore. But the real master after Dumbledore was Draco who disarmed him. Hence the ending and Voldemort's defeat.

No. I know that. I was just talking about Lucius' wand as being the possible example of any wand subjecting to the rule of changing ownership.

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3 minutes ago, Risto said:

No. I know that. I was just talking about Lucius' wand as being the possible example of any wand subjecting to the rule of changing ownership.

Oh my bad, I misunderstood. It's not the only example of wands being used by someone else than their owner. Ron in the first books had a second hand wand.

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1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

Oh my bad, I misunderstood. It's not the only example of wands being used by someone else than their owner. Ron in the first books had a second hand wand.

In the book they establish that the Elder Wand is special and will only work for the master who defeated the person, but all wands are like that as far as ownership goes. The wand choosing is not exclusive to the Elder Wand. How it chooses is not either - that also appears to be linked to dueling sometimes. Harry ends up using Draco's wand that he 'won' when he escaped the Malfoy's house over Hermione's, because he beat him and thus it will work better. It still doesn't work as well as the original wand that chose him, but it works better than Hermione's. 

Ron was never particularly adept, so him switching wands doesn't really matter that much. 

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Just got back from the theater. I enjoyed it. Fun, kinda cheesy popcorn flick in a universe I like seeing explored more if only for nostalgia purposes. That's about all I needed. 

I didn't know Depp was playing Grindelwald until the reveal and I thought he looked ridiculous. Would have preferred if they just kept Collin Farrell in the role to be honest. 

I wonder if Graves was a real person who he started Polyjuicing or if it was a completely created identity for him. 

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10 hours ago, Risto said:

Didn't Voldemort take the wand from Lucius in Deathly Hallows so he could have pursued Harry? Now, I have no idea whether the Voldemort truly became the master of the wand, but he did use it in Battle of 7 Potters rather well. Then again, Lucius' wand exploded when it attacked Harry, while Voldemort's wand didn't.

Voldemort is an exceptionally powerful wizard. His magical skill is such that he is able to do some spellwork without a wand at all.

Ollivander mentions that a powerful wand better hones a magician's skills - the Elder Wand is a powerful wand, so it provides more power. Ollivander also explicitly says some wands have more power than others. It's not that you can't use another, it's just that, "You'll never do as well with another wizard's wand."

So when Voldemort used Lucius' wand, and when he used the Elder Wand, it hampered his magic. But since he is so powerful (for instance: he can cast the killing spell non-verbally) his magic is still immensely strong.

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14 hours ago, Leap said:

Also, if I remember right, Harry beat Malfoy before Voldemort 'killed' him, so really Voldemort should have been the Master after that point. Harry Potter has quite a lot of plot holes, though. 

He didn't really kill Harry though, he killed the Horcrux, i.e. part of himself (Voldemort). As sketchy as it may be.

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I haven't even seen the movie, but I'm wading in here because I've got an itch to throw my nerdy weight around.

Firstly, the wand's changing allegiance thing is largely a load of nonsense that was invented for the last book, but it affects all wands, not just the Elder Wand. Case in point: Harry snatches Draco's wand from him and Ollivander says afterwards that it belongs to him and it performs better than the wand he borrowed from Hermione. This snatching somehow also gives Harry mastery of the Elder Wand, which is complete bollocks if you ask me.

Secondly, simply killing the previous owner doesn't make you the master of the wand. Snape killed Dumbledore, but given that Dumbledore was already beaten, Snape doesn't become master of the Elder Wand. Similarly, Harry lets Voldemort kill him without putting up a fight, so Voldemort doesn't become the next master.

 

I will probably see this move at some point, but I think I may wait until DVD, though I think I have seen every other one in the cinema and I think it would be a shame to break my streak.

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