What's it good for? - Arya Stark

[Greywater-Watch]

Her special capabilities & assets are:

• detect lies when interviewing someone (the lying game)
• remain undetected in public (taking a different identity and behaviour, enhanced when using the face of a dead person)
• assassinate single targets using weapons or poison
• skinchanging (cats) and warging (Nymeria) on an untrained level
• being in the line of possible heirs to Winterfell

Assuming her action radius would be Westeros (i.e. she leaves Braavos), what could that be good for? I f she acts on her own (having no global idea of the political situation) she would probably only be able to stick to her death list, thus endangering Cersei, Walder Frey.

A more useful weapon she would be if in the "service" of someone being a high level player of the Game of Thrones (Littlefinger, Varys, Jon Snow, to a lesser limit Sansa, potentially Brandon).

[a black swan]

1 hour ago, Greywater-Watch said:

A more useful weapon she would be if in the "service" of someone being a high level player of the Game of Thrones (Littlefinger, Varys, Jon Snow, to a lesser limit Sansa, potentially Brandon).

Why in the service of someone else?

Why can't Arya use her skills to further her own goals (that also happen to align with someone else like Jon for example). 

The majority of her time with the FM has taught her how to gather and interpret information. So why would she remain ignorant of political issues in Westeros? especially those affecting the North... which she so happens to already be a part of as Lady of Winterfell?

George has her learning skills  and going through experiences that will help her serve her House and possibly the realm once the War is over. 

 

[Greywater-Watch]

1 minute ago, DutchArya said:

Why in the service of someone else?

Why can't Arya use her skills to further her own goals (that also happen to align with someone else like Jon for example). 

The majority of her time with the FM has taught her how to gather and interpret information. So why would she remain ignorant of political issues in Westeros? especially those affecting the North... which she so happens to already be a part of? 

 

Arya does not know who is allied with whom, who has betrayed or killed whom. And all on her own she will have a hard time to get this puzzled out on herself. What I think is that teaming up with someone like Davos, Stannis, Jon, Littlefinger, Varys, Doran Martell or so would put her right into the picture. The FM have taught her the techniques to gather and interpret information, but she will have to catch up months or even years of absence of Westeros. She might be able to get that picture on her own, I agree, e.g. by talking and listening to sailors, in Inns and so on, but that would take much longer.

Imagine how much of the passings with Robb in the Riverlands, the Red Wedding, the political scheming of Stannis and Roose Bolton in the North she could for example learn by spending just one evening talking with Lord Wyman Manderly.

[The Sleeper]

Braavos is probably the busiest port in Martin's world with news arriving from practically everywhere and Arya's training consists largely of listening for that information and picking out the good bits. She also specifically looks to ferret out secrets.

Her assumption of different identities goes beyond mere disguise to immersion in different personalities and points of view.

The lying game both teaches her how to lie and why and how people are lying.

The assassinations teach her how to use that information to use a specific goal.

There is also the exposure to different cultures and customs and ways of thinking.

Arya has the potential to be the most well informed of all of POVs with a foundation of profound understandin of human nature and motivations as well as the capacity to employ that knowledge.

What is it good for? Anything and everything really. Exposition from other characters would not give her the context of understanding she now has the capacity for.

It's a lot like her training with training with Syrio. Being able to fight with the bravos blade has not been relevant and will unlikely become particularly so. The self-discipline, work ethic, ability to remain objective and keep her head in a crisis she gained from it, has kept her alive and to some extent define her character.

[Darksnider05]

17 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

Braavos is probably the busiest port in Martin's world with news arriving from practically everywhere and Arya's training consists largely of listening for that information and picking out the good bits. She also specifically looks to ferret out secrets.

Her assumption of different identities goes beyond mere disguise to immersion in different personalities and points of view.

The lying game both teaches her how to lie and why and how people are lying.

The assassinations teach her how to use that information to use a specific goal.

There is also the exposure to different cultures and customs and ways of thinking.

Arya has the potential to be the most well informed of all of POVs with a foundation of profound understandin of human nature and motivations as well as the capacity to employ that knowledge.

What is it good for? Anything and everything really. Exposition from other characters would not give her the context of understanding she now has the capacity for.

It's a lot like her training with training with Syrio. Being able to fight with the bravos blade has not been relevant and will unlikely become particularly so. The self-discipline, work ethic, ability to remain objective and keep her head in a crisis she gained from it, has kept her alive and to some extent define her character.

Think you nailed it on the head with this post.  Not much to add beyond if she will have the backing and connections of the House of B&W when she sets out.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

There are lots of possibilities with Arya's arc. She has the potential to turn the tables on her masters itself with her advanced spying and lie detection skills, because Martin has set the FM up to have their own goals, background and secrets in this story. We are yet to see the full extent of the magic the FM will teach her (glamouring, for example), so that'll be another addition to her skill list.

[a black swan]

1 hour ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Arya does not know who is allied with whom, who has betrayed or killed whom. And all on her own she will have a hard time to get this puzzled out on herself. What I think is that teaming up with someone like Davos, Stannis, Jon, Littlefinger, Varys, Doran Martell or so would put her right into the picture. The FM have taught her the techniques to gather and interpret information, but she will have to catch up months or even years of absence of Westeros. She might be able to get that picture on her own, I agree, e.g. by talking and listening to sailors, in Inns and so on, but that would take much longer.

Imagine how much of the passings with Robb in the Riverlands, the Red Wedding, the political scheming of Stannis and Roose Bolton in the North she could for example learn by spending just one evening talking with Lord Wyman Manderly.

Yes I agree, she will have to spend time getting reconnected. But to touch on @The Sleeper great response, her ability to take on disguises goes even deeper. One thing she has proven is her ability to keep Arya Stark intact while taking on other identities. She wears these names as lightly as a gown, but underneath she is a Lord's daughter. This duality could be an asset in Arya moving seamlessly among different circles, both higher and lower classes. 

"Arya grinned, realized she was grinning, and gave her cheek a pinch. Rule your face, she told herself. My smile is my servant, he should come at my command." - CAT OF THE CANALS

No one sees her coming. Arya the Unlikely. 

What good is it? Great question. Depends on the limitations we place on this little she-wolf? A time for wolves indeed.

[a black swan]

6 minutes ago, Darksnider05 said:

Think you nailed it on the head with this post.  Not much to add beyond if she will have the backing and connections of the House of B&W when she sets out.

What are your thoughts on the FM endgame goals? Do you agree with the impression the Iron Bank & FM are more closely aligned than we're lead to believe? They back Stannis (and by extension Jon) for the moment. I feel like Arya is a joker they may want to play in the future. The fArya is in the possession of the IB so conveniently and the FM have the real thing sleeping under their roof. The possibilities..? 

[Darksnider05]

43 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

What are your thoughts on the FM endgame goals? Do you agree with the impression the Iron Bank & FM are more closely aligned than we're lead to believe? They back Stannis (and by extension Jon) for the moment. I feel like Arya is a joker they may want to play in the future. The fArya is in the possession of the IB so conveniently and the FM have the real thing sleeping under their roof. The possibilities..? 

If there are three great factions of Braavos it's the IB,Sea Lord and the HoBW.  I don't think the IB has a direct hand in Arya being at the House or even if their aware she's there.  But if anything get's the House involved it's most likely going to be the Others at which point they might put Arya forward to reach out in some manner.  

[a black swan]

20 minutes ago, Darksnider05 said:

If there are three great factions of Braavos it's the IB,Sea Lord and the HoBW.  I don't think the IB has a direct hand in Arya being at the House or even if their aware she's there.  But if anything get's the House involved it's most likely going to be the Others at which point they might put Arya forward to reach out in some manner.  

Oh no, I don't think the IB helped bring Arya to the HoBW. But if the FM/IB are intertwined in their goals/activities... Arya being there would be something  they would subsequently learn about. 

Is it possible that the Hall of Faces (the FM's most valued possessions) is actually a vault in the IB itself? 

Is possible that Arya travels underground (hears the Canals above her) after entering through an iron door that requires an ornate key to open?

Long explanation aside let's assume for arguments sake that the FM/IB are affiliated, how would that sphere of power and influence affect Westeros with someone like Arya?

[The Sleeper]

1 hour ago, DutchArya said:

Oh no, I don't think the IB helped bring Arya to the HoBW. But if the FM/IB are intertwined in their goals/activities... Arya being there would be something  they would subsequently learn about. 

Is it possible that the Hall of Faces (the FM's most valued possessions) is actually a vault in the IB itself? 

Is possible that Arya travels underground (hears the Canals above her) after entering through an iron door that requires an ornate key to open?

Long explanation aside let's assume for arguments sake that the FM/IB are affiliated, how would that sphere of power and influence affect Westeros with someone like Arya?

She is in the line of succession for the North and depending on Edmure's and his child's fate potentially the Riverlands. She is younger than Sansa but hasn't been disinherited by Robb. Though she is technically married to Ramsay, this is potentially an asset as her revelation could confer a blow to the credibility of both Lannisters and Boltons. If you want to get really underhanded she could assume the Jeyne's role she could claim the Winterfell, the Dreadfort and the North, without openly antagonizing the Iron Throne. Using her to cement the claim to Winterfell carries the implication that they recognize it. Should Roose and Ramsey die, it could seem from a distance like more infighting without further repercussions. The latter scenario seems unlikely as the current regime is collapsing.

As such they could hand her over to Justin Massey. The IB seems like the kind of institution who would hedge their bets. There is also the fact that Stannis seems likely to be dead soon. Collaborating with Dany or Aegon is not out of the question, let alone that Arya could spy for them as a member of their respective courts.

Her greater potential for her own power is in the Riverlands. Already following lady Stoneheart the BwB seems ripe to accept her living daughter whom they are actually searching for. I think Lady Stoneheart would crown her and with the Blackfish at her side she could become a contender. Nymeria and the fact that they actually know her would solve the issues of proving her identity which could prove problematic.

Martin has used practcally every death-related mythological reference there is with Arya. Psychopomp, executioner, judge, necromancer (in the original sense), allusions to the ferryman's coins, arbiter of life and death, two figurative deaths, the fact that she is most often compared to a dead person you name it. It's hard to see how that will play it in terms of plot, but it will be bloody and macabre.

[a black swan]

25 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

She is in the line of succession for the North and depending on Edmure's and his child's fate potentially the Riverlands. She is younger than Sansa but hasn't been disinherited by Robb. Though she is technically married to Ramsay, this is potentially an asset as her revelation could confer a blow to the credibility of both Lannisters and Boltons. If you want to get really underhanded she could assume the Jeyne's role she could claim the Winterfell, the Dreadfort and the North, without openly antagonizing the Iron Throne. Using her to cement the claim to Winterfell carries the implication that they recognize it. Should Roose and Ramsey die, it could seem from a distance like more infighting without further repercussions. The latter scenario seems unlikely as the current regime is collapsing.

As such they could hand her over to Justin Massey. The IB seems like the kind of institution who would hedge their bets. There is also the fact that Stannis seems likely to be dead soon. Collaborating with Dany or Aegon is not out of the question, let alone that Arya could spy for them as a member of their respective courts.

Her greater potential for her own power is in the Riverlands. Already following lady Stoneheart the BwB seems ripe to accept her living daughter whom they are actually searching for. I think Lady Stoneheart would crown her and with the Blackfish at her side she could become a contender. Nymeria and the fact that they actually know her would solve the issues of proving her identity which could prove problematic.

Martin has used practcally every death-related mythological reference there is with Arya. Psychopomp, executioner, judge, necromancer (in the original sense), allusions to the ferryman's coins, arbiter of life and death, two figurative deaths, the fact that she is most often compared to a dead person you name it. It's hard to see how that will play it in terms of plot, but it will be bloody and macabre.

There is just so much fresh meat in your post. So much to consider!  

If Jeyne shows up in Braavos with Tycho & Justin, Arya could play the most meta role ever: Are ya Stark? 

Robb's crown could seal the deal. The Riverlands have been a real stronghold in her story. But I think LF, failing to assert Sansa's claim in the North, he will push for the Riverlands next?

I think her storyline will cross paths with Bran and we'll see what her warging/skin-changing potential really is. Arya's Death associations and what it ultimately leads... most likely her involvement in the coming War?

"Stick 'em with the pointy end."  Is one of GRRM's favourite lines for a reason. Stick who though? Gruesome and macabre indeed.

 

 

[MaybeINeverSawACamel]

My tinfoil theory puts her on the side of the Others. She may already be dead and may not know it, as I suspect the FM are. Someday I will write a short(because of the tinfoil ness)beautiful post with some textual evidence. I'll go back to my crazy corner for now, picturing the end of the series as she heads to the Lands of Always Winter, ruling the Others as Queen.

[Greywater-Watch]

20 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

She is younger than Sansa but hasn't been disinherited by Robb

Wow, wow - hold your horses! Sansa has been disinherited by Robb? I thought it was safe to assume Robb gave Jon Snow the legitimation necessary to bear the name Stark. Which would move Jon up in the sucession line. But in my opinion that does not mean Sansa would be disinherited. Or am I wrong?

[Darksnider05]

1 hour ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Wow, wow - hold your horses! Sansa has been disinherited by Robb? I thought it was safe to assume Robb gave Jon Snow the legitimation necessary to bear the name Stark. Which would move Jon up in the sucession line. But in my opinion that does not mean Sansa would be disinherited. Or am I wrong?

Her marriage to House Lannister.

[Scootaloo Stark]

16 hours ago, MaybeINeverSawACamel said:

My tinfoil theory puts her on the side of the Others. She may already be dead and may not know it, as I suspect the FM are. Someday I will write a short(because of the tinfoil ness)beautiful post with some textual evidence. I'll go back to my crazy corner for now, picturing the end of the series as she heads to the Lands of Always Winter, ruling the Others as Queen.

Can I join you in your corner? This is beautiful.

Let's get even crazier and say that Arya then becomes the younger, more beautiful queen to destroy Cersei. Which she would, as queen of the Others.

[purple-eyes]

Arya's skill list somehow reminded me of Varys...

She might be next Varys for the realm. 

[a black swan]

2 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Wow, wow - hold your horses! Sansa has been disinherited by Robb? I thought it was safe to assume Robb gave Jon Snow the legitimation necessary to bear the name Stark. Which would move Jon up in the sucession line. But in my opinion that does not mean Sansa would be disinherited. Or am I wrong?

Both Robb & Cat agreed that the North should never be be allowed to pass to Sansa. Simply moving Jon ahead does not stop Sansa from still being able to inherit. Jon dying would be the only barrier if we took your initial assumption. Robb disinherits Sansa from ever getting the North. Makes Jon a Stark and names his dead siblings Bran/Rickon at the sealing. At the actual Sealing, it's weird that GRRM is silent on both Jon & Arya but clearly names Bran/Rickon as dead. 

[Greywater-Watch]

14 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Robb disinherits Sansa from ever getting the North.

Is it possible to disinherit someone in the world of ASOIAF? I thought there were three possibilites only to be removed from the line of succession:

1) death

2) being sent to the Wall

Have I missed something?

[Darksnider05]

13 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Is it possible to disinherit someone in the world of ASOIAF? I thought there were three possibilites only to be removed from the line of succession:

1) death

2) being sent to the Wall

Have I missed something?

Nope it's possible if the Head of House says your out your out.