Cas Stark Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Yes, we have seen Wyatt. Mib as Wyatt makes no sense. I don't love William as Mib but there is no denying now there are a ton of parallels there so it's probably true. I think I would really hate Ford being a host, what would the entire purpose be of what appears his conflict with Arnold in how to view AI, if he's gone AI himself? Don't know about Arnold as Abernathy, I think he is definitely dead, a live human living in the park for 35 years would be extremely silly. But he's still "alive" in the code for sure. Agree that Dolores location in the "now" assuming her awakening is happening 30 years ago is somewhat problematic....since we saw some degree of awakening of "now" Dolores already with Teddy when she wanted to run away with him, but he leaves her to go look for Wyatt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ded As Ned Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Yeah you're right. I had forgotten about that. Teddy's memory could be unreliable (i.e. altered)... but that's a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 13 minutes ago, KiDisaster said: We have seen Wyatt though, haven't we? In Teddy's "flashbacks" when they're shooting up the town? We've seen someone Teddy thinks is Wyatt, but the conversations between the writer and the board member suggest he may not have been finalised yet. Something about the way that went suggests to me that Wyatt's identity will be a surprise. Maybe it's Dolores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ded As Ned Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 The episode 9 preview definitely sets it up like a big reveal... we see the shadowy figure walk in the church with "Wyatt... take me to him" in the background, but you can't tell who it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I would consider that to be way too cute if the Wyatt we already saw in Teddy's memory was a fake out. And the real Wyatt is someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dooog Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 My least favourite episode of the season by a stretch. Maeve, Felix and Sylvester dragged it down, I find their whole thing implausible and don't care for any of those actors. Maeve's acting particular is far too hammed up. Still a decent episode overall however. Seems to me we're now looking at 2 timelines with each one having flashbacks to prior incidents. Dolores & William are 30 years ago (notice MIB was married 30 years) and Dolores is having flashbacks to an incident 4 years prior to that, presumably when Arnold disappeared. Our present day timeline features Maeve, Ford, Bernard, Hemsworth with Maeve's flashbacks going back 12 months. I'm definitely still on board with William = MiB so MiB is in the present day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 1 hour ago, polishgenius said: I think anyone still refusing to consider that William=MiB is at least a strong possibility is simply sticking their head in the sand against an idea they hope isn't true at this point. Sure, it's entirely possible that someone other than William would remember the host from before, but narratively there's no reason for them to show it to us unless they want us to connect them. There's definitely been evidence the past few episodes that could support William=MiB, but its not conclusive. If this hadn't all been filmed and set to go since before the first episode aired, I'd almost think the writers are toying with the audience. The evidence can easily be twisted to prove or disprove the theory at this point. And there's some other stuff that seems to suggest some entirely third thing is happening. For instance, 1) Ford and everyone back at HQ talk about the Wyatt narrative as something that's still being developed, but it seems already fully implemented in the MiB scenes. Which would almost suggest that the MiB isn't in quite the same time as the HQ stuff, maybe a couple in the months in the future? But I'm not sure what purpose that would serve. It just seems odd though. 2) The way William so quickly led Dolores away from the church, right when she was about to have her breakthrough, also seemed odd; almost programmed. In fact, he seemed pretty out of character almost the entire episode. I'm not sure if the show sped up his character progression a little too quickly or if something else is going on there. I really can't come up with a working theory for everything, but my gut is that everything is happening at the same time (except for Dolores' flashbacks to the beta-testing town and the Dolores/Bernard conversations). I think there is some connection between William, Logan, and the MiB; but I'm not sure what it is. I originally thought the MiB was Logan's father, but that seemed clearly untrue even before the MiB dumped part of his backstory last night. I think Ford is human, as is Stubbs and the board member. I'm not sure if the techs are human, but I'm pretty sure they are. I also think Ford doesn't know about Maeve and that all the problems with that storyline are due to poor writing and not that its some master plot by Ford. 46 minutes ago, KiDisaster said: We have seen Wyatt though, haven't we? In Teddy's "flashbacks" when they're shooting up the town? Problem is, those flashbacks aren't something that ever really happened; its a false memory for his new backstory. It could be that guy is Wyatt, but Wyatt has been built up so much that I think it'd be a let down if it was some completely new character. My guess is that Wyatt is actually Teddy; and he just doesn't "remember" it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 There are no humans. Everyone is a host. It's all "Arnold's Game" AHHHHHH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 13 hours ago, HokieStone said: Things that don't really make sense - the park workers call the hosts by name even when they're in the "shop". Ford calls Maeve by that name when she's hysterical after her daughter getting killed - so the name seems to follow them around. So calling the new call girl by "Clementine" doesn't really fit. Well they did retire Clementine and lobotomize her, so assuming new Clementine is a new host (maybe re-purposed from Sizemore's narrative) there's no reason not to give her that name. 12 hours ago, Fragile Bird said: And it seems to me that I called it in the last thread, Felix and Sylvester are hosts. Felix seals Sylvester's neck wound with the torch. I don't know if this is conclusive. it seems like the modern hosts have basically human bodies, so why wouldn't the torch work the same on a human? 4 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said: We also know saw that old hosts were a lot less complex with Old Bill. I think it's been well established by now that this is not true. Old Bill was presumably malfunctioning and that's why he was retired despite Ford's obvious fondness for him. We've seen old hosts, Ford's fake family, and you can't tell the difference from the outside. Not to mention at one point early on Ford said the hosts were passing for human within a couple years of their creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 42 minutes ago, Fez said: There's definitely been evidence the past few episodes that could support William=MiB, but its not conclusive. If this hadn't all been filmed and set to go since before the first episode aired, I'd almost think the writers are toying with the audience. The evidence can easily be twisted to prove or disprove the theory at this point. For sure, it's not conclusive, but there's still a few people insisting that it can't possibly be true and I think they're clinging now. I think the writers are definitely toying with the audience either way. They've anticipated us well. 18 minutes ago, RumHam said: I don't know if this is conclusive. it seems like the modern hosts have basically human bodies, so why wouldn't the torch work the same on a human? I think this was just an xtreme-Teevee conclusion to the principle that you can cauterise a wound to stop the bleeding. This is one thing I don't think was meant to be some kind of clue - hell, even if the torch would work differently on a host, why would Felix use it? He doesn't think Sylvester is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I too suspect that Felix and Sylvester might be hosts. Particularly Felix, mainly because his actions don't make any sense within the context of his job. Felix continuing to help Maeve get stronger (and more dangerous) with plenty of opportunity to put a stop to it is a major plot-hole in my mind, unless they are able to explain away his actions via him being a host planted by Ford or perhaps Arnold, somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 2 hours ago, polishgenius said: I didn't go back to check every instance but she seems to be playing with her necklace when she gives the commands. Bernard seems to have a similar tell with his glasses. These multiple timelines have been spinning out of control. After we learned about Peter Abernathy being used to smuggle out IP, I entertained the thought he may have been the one to bring the photo of the girl in Times Square back to the park with him. Uggghh, these time loops! Regarding Bill, have we seen him anywhere besides sharing a drink with Ford? I was trying to spot any familiar faces during Dolores' apparent flashback to the original Westworld and failure. I like the idea of Teddy being Wyatt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 1 hour ago, polishgenius said: We've seen someone Teddy thinks is Wyatt, but the conversations between the writer and the board member suggest he may not have been finalised yet. Something about the way that went suggests to me that Wyatt's identity will be a surprise. Maybe it's Dolores. Well it seems like Dolores shot up that whole town just like Wyatt did (and then shot herself). Maybe Wyatt is based on Dolores. Still unsure how I feel about the whole multiple timelines thing. Some of the misdirections from previous eps (Stubbs sending someone to put Dolores back on her loop, Dolores running into William after Teddy going to look for Wyatt) kind of annoy me. Seems like they were more to trick the viewer than clever editing imo. But now we know Dolores is retracing her steps from one of her previous "off-loop" trips and is by herself in the present. I just don't understand why HQ is allowing her to go off loop again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 21 minutes ago, Mark Antony said: Well it seems like Dolores shot up that whole town just like Wyatt did (and then shot herself). Maybe Wyatt is based on Dolores. Still unsure how I feel about the whole multiple timelines thing. Some of the misdirections from previous eps (Stubbs sending someone to put Dolores back on her loop, Dolores running into William after Teddy going to look for Wyatt) kind of annoy me. Seems like they were more to trick the viewer than clever editing imo. But now we know Dolores is retracing her steps from one of her previous "off-loop" trips and is by herself in the present. I just don't understand why HQ is allowing her to go off loop again. @Ariadne23 Made a good argument for the Delores retreat scene actually making sense. It's still a trick on the audience, but I guess that's to be expected with this kinda twist based storytelling. On 11/2/2016 at 10:44 AM, Ariadne23 said: Upon rewatching, I think it's really well done. Dolores comes out of the barn with the gun, after shooting Rebus. Her mother screams and is shot. A man comes walking across the porch. He has a gun in his hand. He says "hey come back here!" He shoots. Dolores is hit and bleeding from an abdominal would. She is holding the gun. Then, the scene repeats. A man comes walking across the porch. His hands are empty. He says "hey come back here!" Dolores has no gunshot wound. She flees and as she turns on her horse we see that she does not have the gun. That's when we switched time frames. The bit that's repeated. So she does flee on horseback and run into William and Logan and there's still continuity. We just jumped back 30 years during her scene at the farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Bloody hell, I just read Reddit. I assume a couple of you did as well. Confess! It's good for the soul.... Big shocking ideas. There aren't 2 or 3 timelines, there's only 1. Since Ford introduced the reveries, the hosts are remembering past events. It's why they don't know where they are in time. Dolores and Maeve are good examples. Secondly.....Dolores is Wyatt. That's why Teddy has to find her, he has to find Wyatt. Thirdly, the maze is in their minds, if they dig deeply enough they gain freedom, sentience. Think about what one of the last things we heard being said to the MiB was, the maze is not for you. Fourth, if you still doubt it, the MiB is William. There's more, I'm on my phone and don't know how to link... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Well, that's interesting. Can we talk about these spoilers w/out the hide? If not, I'll just say that a couple of those items seem pretty obvious, one I will hate, one I'm not too thrilled with..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 14 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: Bloody hell, I just read Reddit. I assume a couple of you did as well. Confess! It's good for the soul.... Reveal hidden contents Big shocking ideas. There aren't 2 or 3 timelines, there's only 1. Since Ford introduced the reveries, the hosts are remembering past events. It's why they don't know where they are in time. Dolores and Maeve are good examples. Secondly.....Dolores is Wyatt. That's why Teddy has to find her, he has to find Wyatt. Thirdly, the maze is in their minds, if they dig deeply enough they gain freedom, sentience. Think about what one of the last things we heard being said to the MiB was, the maze is not for you. Fourth, if you still doubt it, the MiB is William. There's more, I'm on my phone and don't know how to link... Well considering how much screen time we have of Dolores and William, then there are 2 timelines, it's just that one is a memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I have been lagging behind with this series, and because the buzz was so strong, I decided to catch up before I got spoiled. I'm really glad I did. It will be nice waiting the next two weeks to see if some of these theories are true. I did not have the luxury of reading theories while watching though, as I just plowed on through. I am going back to watch theories now, but it is remarkable that I came up with some of these very same theories just by watching the show. The writers obviously have been telegraphing their clues or red herrings. Here are a couple of thoughts I had while watching. 1. Very early on I pegged Bernard as a host. I also believe that he is modeled after Arnold. 2. There are multiple timelines going on in the narrative. 3. William is the MiB - After watching episode 8, I also believe that he was recreated as a host and that is the version we are seeing in the current Delores story. 4. Ford may be a host as well. Arnold's first creation that achieved conciseness. He may also contain Arnold's conciseness, or Arnold lives on through the basic programming of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowKnight Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I'm getting a bit bored with the Maeve storyline, it all feels like its too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Cas Stark said: Well, that's interesting. Can we talk about these spoilers w/out the hide? If not, I'll just say that a couple of those items seem pretty obvious, one I will hate, one I'm not too thrilled with..... Have at it. I think we've covered everything in the spoiler thing and then some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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