HBO's Westworld(v4)- What door? [spoilers]

[DMC]

7 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

It's a question of how often people come back too...I mean, obviously the park is for the super rich, but the MiB and Logan appear to be exceptions, not rules on people returning for another go.  There might not need be more than a few narratives at a time, and it does seem that there is the intention of a longer reaching narrative, from which smaller ones spring out of.

Also, perhaps there aren't THAT many guests in the park at a time.  There does seem to be a hotel aspect to the park also. 

Agreed on them controlling the amount of guests.  To articulate my thinking: the "narratives" set up at the "entrance way" of the park would be the classics - something all guests expect as a right of passage upon their first visit, but view as mundane if they are "regulars."  E.G. the Teacups, the Great Movie Ride, or Spaceship Earth (sorry for extending the Disneyworld metaphor, but I lived in Orlando for 8 years which ruined the park for me...damn yearly passes).  IRT the "higher level" narratives, however, those do tend to vary, thus the necessity of employing Simon Quarterman to keep things fresh.

3 hours ago, Astromech said:

My mistake, the board would like it to be unanimous, with MiB's, as Ford's chief supporter, being the most important of the votes to remove Ford.

My take on the scene is she wanted his vote sure - but was more interested in seeking some advice on how to smuggle out the data they want from the park.  Getting the MIB's vote was more like due diligence.  I think the main objective was more for the audience in confirming that the MIB is on the Delos board (which is hardly a surprise).  If shoring up support on the board was of such necessity, it seems odd that Charlotte has already shifted focus to securing the proprietary information Ford is holding on to.  That'd be putting the cart before the horse - and in her conversation with Theresa in episode 7 (I'm pretty sure) Charlotte explicitly states her mandate from the board is to prepare for Ford's ouster.

And yeah, Harris already essentially stated he saved the park in his scene with Hopkins a few episodes back.  What's most interesting from that exchange is his complete disregard for Ford's contributions to the park/hosts.  At first you wonder why does he think that, but the more interesting question is how does he know that?  Is it simply from his wild tryst with Dolores obsessed with Arnold if William=MIB?  That doesn't seem sufficient to me...

[Astromech]

1 hour ago, dmc515 said:

 

My take on the scene is she wanted his vote sure - but was more interested in seeking some advice on how to smuggle out the data they want from the park.  Getting the MIB's vote was more like due diligence.  I think the main objective was more for the audience in confirming that the MIB is on the Delos board (which is hardly a surprise).  If shoring up support on the board was of such necessity, it seems odd that Charlotte has already shifted focus to securing the proprietary information Ford is holding on to.  That'd be putting the cart before the horse - and in her conversation with Theresa in episode 7 (I'm pretty sure) Charlotte explicitly states her mandate from the board is to prepare for Ford's ouster.

And yeah, Harris already essentially stated he saved the park in his scene with Hopkins a few episodes back.  What's most interesting from that exchange is his complete disregard for Ford's contributions to the park/hosts.  At first you wonder why does he think that, but the more interesting question is how does he know that?  Is it simply from his wild tryst with Dolores obsessed with Arnold if William=MIB?  That doesn't seem sufficient to me...

Possible, but why seek advice on smuggling out the IP after she had already decided to use the Peter Abernathy host for the task? She may have simply been gauging the MiB's feelings concerning Ford's removal. Her mention of Theresa's death and the MiB's reaction let us know the MiB knows of the plans to steal the IP(can't recall if his knowledge of such has already been made known to the viewer) and his apparent lack of concern. He seems to only care about his playtime in the park, basically can't be bothered with board machinations. Her line of liking the vote to be unanimous implies they will remove him regardless of the MiB's approval, but it would be smoother if unanimous. Perhaps the vote to remove and the smuggling of the IP is all a scheme intended to frame Ford for trying to smuggle his own IP out of the park once he learns of his removal. A bit Machiavellian, but most corporate politics are portrayed as such on television.

[RumHam]

One minor thing that I'm confused about is the lobotomization process. If I remember right in the first episode it seemed like it was protocol for hosts that became unexpectedly violent or otherwise glitched out in a disturbing way. (Milk revenge guy, Peter Abernathy) It wasn't totally clear, but I had the impression that lobotomizing them was a safety measure. Note that Old Bill was retired but apparently never lobotomized. 

Yet Clementine could still hold and presumably use a gun. Her ability to hypothetically use it on a human was the result of Theresa and Charlotte's tampering, but it seemed like all the lobotomy did was...well essentially what it does to humans in most cases. 

I get that the decommissioned hosts in the lower level have basically been Checkov's robot army since the pilot, but it seems strange to me why they would lobotomize the troubled ones to destroy their personalities and not just destroy them all together. 

[GSP]

I have a theory.

William is a host.

I have no evidence. I just really would like it to be so because I'd love to see him glitch out on memories from his past life and blurt out things, like, "Don't flush" or "You get fork stabbed Charlie!".

 

[DMC]

 

2 hours ago, Astromech said:

Possible, but why seek advice on smuggling out the IP after she had already decided to use the Peter Abernathy host for the task?

Because she knows that's a half-baked idea doomed to fail that was contrived to give Quarterman's insufferable character something to do and get Abernathy back in the game?  

2 hours ago, Astromech said:

She may have simply been gauging the MiB's feelings concerning Ford's removal.

Sure, that's true.

2 hours ago, Astromech said:

Her mention of Theresa's death and the MiB's reaction let us know the MiB knows of the plans to steal the IP(can't recall if his knowledge of such has already been made known to the viewer) and his apparent lack of concern. He seems to only care about his playtime in the park, basically can't be bothered with board machinations.

Agreed - she brings up the data-stealing plan as "attempting to secure OUR information."

2 hours ago, Astromech said:

Perhaps the vote to remove and the smuggling of the IP is all a scheme intended to frame Ford for trying to smuggle his own IP out of the park once he learns of his removal. A bit Machiavellian, but most corporate politics are portrayed as such on television.

I hope not.  That seems entirely convoluted and indeed incredibly TV trope-ish.  Then again, considering her clumsy moves thus far (the Clementine gambit, choosing Abernathy for some reason even though he's one of the most recent glitching hosts they know of), I suppose that would be consistent.  

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

I get that the decommissioned hosts in the lower level have basically been Checkov's robot army since the pilot, but it seems strange to me why they would lobotomize the troubled ones to destroy their personalities and not just destroy them all together. 

Yeah the whole room-full of decommissioned hosts seemed to be offered in the interest of it looking cool (and, like you said, as the listless foot-soldiers in the soon-to-come robot army) rather than making any type of sense.  When we first see all of them my brother's immediate reaction was "why the hell wouldn't they just destroy them?"  I could not come up with a logical explanation in reply.

[Astromech]

1 hour ago, dmc515 said:

 

Because she knows that's a half-baked idea doomed to fail that was contrived to give Quarterman's insufferable character something to do and get Abernathy back in the game?  

 

I hope not.  That seems entirely convoluted and indeed incredibly TV trope-ish.  Then again, considering her clumsy moves thus far (the Clementine gambit, choosing Abernathy for some reason even though he's one of the most recent glitching hosts they know of), I suppose that would be consistent.  

Yeah the whole room-full of decommissioned hosts seemed to be offered in the interest of it looking cool (and, like you said, as the listless foot-soldiers in the soon-to-come robot army) rather than making any type of sense.  When we first see all of them my brother's immediate reaction was "why the hell wouldn't they just destroy them?"  I could not come up with a logical explanation in reply.

 I noticed Maeve seems to be wearing the same outfit in next week's episode that Charlotte wore in episode 9. I'm wondering if Maeve and her henchmen off Charlotte and Maeve assumes Charlotte's identity to escape the park.

[Ded As Ned]

8 hours ago, dmc515 said:

 

Yeah the whole room-full of decommissioned hosts seemed to be offered in the interest of it looking cool (and, like you said, as the listless foot-soldiers in the soon-to-come robot army) rather than making any type of sense.  When we first see all of them my brother's immediate reaction was "why the hell wouldn't they just destroy them?"  I could not come up with a logical explanation in reply.

Because they're really, really, really expensive to build?  And their programming can be completely wiped and rebuilt, it's just a lot more work than patching over the old memories (but much less work than building a new host from scratch).  That's all I could come up with.  I think of it like having some valuable antique auto in the garage that doesn't run... it needs an engine rebuild and a lot of work, but you're not going to send it to the scrapyard.  

[Charlie Hustle]

I agree. the older robots were very expensive to build compared to the newer models. So why would one throw it away? It is cheaper to just wipe its memory, put it in storage and move on. 

[Spaßvogel]

 

When Maeve was opened up to remove the bullet, did she have the same obviously mechanical parts that Delores did? 

[AndrewJ]

It's been stated in the show that early models had mechanical parts, whereas later ones are basically vat-grown humans. So that scene was pretty much a clear revelation that her travels with William are set in the past.

[RumHam]

18 minutes ago, Spaßvogel said:

 

When Maeve was opened up to remove the bullet, did she have the same obviously mechanical parts that Delores did? 

No. The modern hosts are basically just made out of synthetic human body parts. It is technically possible that since Delores is the original host, she still has her mechanical parts in the modern timeline. But it's unlikely, at one point they mentioned that she's been repaired so many times she's practically new. 

Also I think it was said at one point that Ford's robot family are the only hosts built by Arnold still in the park. So I think Dolores had her mind transferred to a new type body at one point.

2 minutes ago, AndrewJ said:

It's been stated in the show that early models had mechanical parts, whereas later ones are basically vat-grown humans. So that scene was pretty much a clear revelation that her travels with William are set in the past.

Yeah. While as I said maaaybe Dolores is still mechanical in the main timeline, all the soliders William killed were also mechanical. So that should all but confirm that was in the past.

[Ded As Ned]

21 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Also I think it was said at one point that Ford's robot family are the only hosts built by Arnold still in the park. So I think Dolores had her mind transferred to a new type body at one point.

Yeah I don't remember when, but at some point I remember picking up on that Delores has one of the new 3D-printed bodies, and not the original mechanical one.  (Don't always trust my memory though, but I was definitely under the impression it's not the same body as her original one)

[Jaxom 1974]

Woot! Just read the finale was 90 minutes.  You all might have known that, but I didnt. 

[Ded As Ned]

1 minute ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Woot! Just read the finale was 90 minutes.  You all might have known that, but I didnt. 

WOOT!  I was thinking today how I wish they'd do a 2 hour finale, but this is better than anticipated!!!

ETA:  So nope, didn't know that.  thanks! 

[HexMachina]

27 minutes ago, Ded As Ned said:

Yeah I don't remember when, but at some point I remember picking up on that Delores has one of the new 3D-printed bodies, and not the original mechanical one.  (Don't always trust my memory though, but I was definitely under the impression it's not the same body as her original one)

I believe in one episode or another Bernold said she had been rebuilt so much she was more or less new. Which I would assume means her mechanical elements

eta: i knew it was an extended finale early on this season but didnt think it was as long as 90 minutes. That half an episode extra! Woop!

i will be sad when this finishes  

[Ded As Ned]

7 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I believe in one episode or another Bernold said she had been rebuilt so much she was more or less new. Which I would assume means her mechanical elements

If you're saying she's still one of the mechanical hosts... maybe so.  It's kind of irrelevant to me which type of body she has.  She's still Delores either way.

[Cas Stark]

So, only Ed Harris has said he's back for season 2, is this right?  I agree w/whomever said that killing off Hopkins this year will seriously reduce the dramatic tension.  I hope that its made clear he knows what off her loop by herself Delores is doing and same w/Maeve.

I don't see any way around William being the Man in the Black, but I'm still not loving his transformation or his stated reasoning for wanting to find the maze.  

The finale should be a wild ride.

[Fragile Bird]

27 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

So, only Ed Harris has said he's back for season 2, is this right?  I agree w/whomever said that killing off Hopkins this year will seriously reduce the dramatic tension.  

No, it's been noted that Anthony Hopkins has said he's back for Season 2.

Of course, in what way (flashbacks? Host? Same-old same-old?) we don't know.

ETA: the other thing that we also know is that the series is complex enough that Season  2 likely won't start until 2018. If it's Jan/18 I won't feel so badly, but if it's Sept/18 I'm going to be pretty sad.

[HexMachina]

1 hour ago, Ded As Ned said:

If you're saying she's still one of the mechanical hosts... maybe so.  It's kind of irrelevant to me which type of body she has.  She's still Delores either way.

No, sorry! What I meant was, she had mechanical parts in the past, but Bernold said she had been rebuilt, meaning she isn't mechanical in the present timeline.

[Ded As Ned]

36 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

No, sorry! What I meant was, she had mechanical parts in the past, but Bernold said she had been rebuilt, meaning she isn't mechanical in the present timeline.

Ah, sorry.  I wasn't sure from your post  

And as Fragile Bird noted, we now know Hopkins and Harris will be back for Season 2... I've gone from convinced that Ford is a host to he's about to become one (you guys convinced me in regards to my obsession with whom he's printing).  

The trailer for the Finale is great.

I'm not so convinced for Thandie Newton though... Maeve's on quite a reckless path.   I hope she makes it, and that the writers will know what to do with her.