HBO's Westworld(v4)- What door? [spoilers]

[Fragile Bird]

Ok, I just watched episode 9, which I PVR'd while away on vacation.

Some things that stood out.

1.   Maeve refers to someone named Isabel to the bandit - I suspect Maeve may have been Isabel, perhaps?  After all, they keep talking about the fact they've been 'here' before;

2. The idea of trauma triggering consciousness, which I talked about up thread - Ford switches the host killed by the MiB to become Maeve, because trauma has overridden her cornerstone; Note Bernard said 'a little trauma can be illuminating'.

3.  Note that when Angela kills Teddy, after hoping the trauma of being shot with the arrow will move him along, she says "But you're not ready, not yet, maybe in the next life."

4.  When Dolores says she killed Arnold, she might not mean it literally...but on the other hand, the pain and terror she found may mean she did kill him, after he says he can't help her;

5.  Bernard put a back door into Clementine, and in fact in all the Hosts, but Ford put a second overriding backdoor in as well.  Maeve may think she's going to escape, but Ford has a back door into her that she may not realize...and if they have a run-in, Ford should be able to override whatever she tells her 'army' to do;

6.  I think Bernard is dead, unless Maeve repairs him; Ford would have kept him, until Bernard tells Clementine to kill him, he hoped Bernard would continue to be his partner, but he saw 'he fell into that trap'.  It was touching to see Bernard call him Robert, and the look that crosses Ford's face....

7.  I am still torn over who is the MiB, Logan or William...

8.  Angela says 'Wyatt has yet to return'; it may be that Teddy is Wyatt, but he has not ha enough trauma yet to make him 'remember' being Wyatt.

9.  That phrase that triggered Dolores, These violent delights have violent ends, may be Arnold's back door.

So many questions.  I wonder how many will get answered tonight.

Oh, I wanted to say something about the Bicameral Mind, the title of tonight's episode, but I have to go out to dinner.  It can wait.

[Fragile Bird]

Also, the quote from Romeo and Juliet, the friar speaking to Romeo:

"These violent delights have violent ends

And in their triumph die, like fire and powder,

Which, as they kiss, consume. The sweetest honey

Is loathsome in his own deliciousness

And in the taste confounds the appetite."

 

Passionate lovers end up all dying...

ETA: reading it again, '...like fire and powder, Which, as they kiss, consume..'

The rebellion will burn itself out?

[Fragile Bird]

Oooooooookaaaaaayyyyy.....

And just what is going to be Season 2's storyline?

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

I have so many questions. 

[Trebla]

Robert Ford: Eat your heart out, Bilbo Baggins!

[Fez]

Well then. I'm not thrilled with all the twists that took, but it was so well-executed (no pun) that I'm up for Season 2. I was originally thinking I might not bother. Also, I am way into Armistice (did everyone catch the post-credits stinger?). My thoughts:

If Hopkins is in fact back for Season 2, I wonder if it'll be as memories/flashbacks or if it'll turn out that was a host copy of himself that he sacrificed.

I also wonder if Ed Harris will in fact be back. That seemed more heavily confirmed, but that ending seemed to suggest that everyone human there was going to die.

I still don't love how the Maeve storyline played out. Even if her path was programmed, the fact that Felix (and presumably Sylvester) were confirmed to be human means that the whole thing was still incredibly, deeply contrived.

On the other hand, Armistice, Hector, and Samurai World were all awesome.

What the hell happened to Stubbs? And Elsie? Loose threads or forgotten threads?

It was disappointing not seeing Abernathy again this season.

I've no clue what the plot next season is going to be. It seems like it'd need to be all-out war between humans and hosts, but the show supposedly has a five season arc, and I can't imagine it hits that mark in season two. 

[Astromech]

Shocking reveal

Besides that, I loved this finale.

Ford's new narrative, though not exactly shocking, was very well handled. He is such a great character. 

Maeve's arc was probably the best part of the finale next to Ford's new narrative. Hector and Armistice were fun to watch. And I love that Maeve turned back at the end to find her daughter. 

Dolores' arc and the reveal of her history was great. So finally the bicameral mind.

Bernard had some strong plot armor since last week. However, there were a few nice reveals regarding him and Arnold.

And what the hell happened to Elsie and Stubbs?

 

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

21 minutes ago, Fez said:

Well then. I'm not thrilled with all the twists that took, but it was so well-executed (no pun) that I'm up for Season 2. I was originally thinking I might not bother. Also, I am way into Armistice (did everyone catch the post-credits stinger?). My thoughts:

If Hopkins is in fact back for Season 2, I wonder if it'll be as memories/flashbacks or if it'll turn out that was a host copy of himself that he sacrificed.

I also wonder if Ed Harris will in fact be back. That seemed more heavily confirmed, but that ending seemed to suggest that everyone human there was going to die.

I still don't love how the Maeve storyline played out. Even if her path was programmed, the fact that Felix (and presumably Sylvester) were confirmed to be human means that the whole thing was still incredibly, deeply contrived.

On the other hand, Armistice, Hector, and Samurai World were all awesome.

What the hell happened to Stubbs? And Elsie? Loose threads or forgotten threads?

It was disappointing not seeing Abernathy again this season.

I've no clue what the plot next season is going to be. It seems like it'd need to be all-out war between humans and hosts, but the show supposedly has a five season arc, and I can't imagine it hits that mark in season two. 

Yes! Blood sacrifice! That answers one of my questions about Ford. 

I'm hoping Stubbs comes to the rescue of MiB/William. 

[Trebla]

So much to digest. William as MiB seems almost the least of it now. I had figured that the Maze was consciousness, especially on re-watches when Lawrence's lil girl told MiB that the Maze "is not for you". But I am floored that Ford was not actually blocking the hosts from consciousness but encouraging it. Bernard murdering Elise and Theresa (and Stubbs?) seems not to save Ford's power but to give Delores time to complete the Maze before the Board took over. How Maeve fit into I'm still not sure...Arnold's code that Ford denied to Bernard at the end? It seems that Ford was one for showing bluster to hide weakness. He did that to Theresa when he said the Board wouldn't overthrow him.

There are still a lot of questions. 

 

[Fragile Bird]

Well, I'm happy to see that my comments about trauma being the key to attaining sentience were right.  There's more suffering to be done by many of the Hosts before they achieve that sentience.

About some of the points I made above:

6.  I think Bernard is dead, unless Maeve repairs him; Ford would have kept him, until Bernard tells Clementine to kill him, he hoped Bernard would continue to be his partner, but he saw 'he fell into that trap'.  It was touching to see Bernard call him Robert, and the look that crosses Ford's face....

So we were totally sucked in by Ford, and Bernard's death was obviously another form of trauma, to help him along.

7.  I am still torn over who is the MiB, Logan or William...

Okay, I was overthinking it. I still think the change in William is not plausible, because he changed from a sweet guy to a deeply cynical and psychopathic kind of guy, and I don't buy it.

8.  Angela says 'Wyatt has yet to return'; it may be that Teddy is Wyatt, but he has not had enough trauma yet to make him 'remember' being Wyatt.

Teddy seems to kind to be Wyatt, and Dolores said something about the one who is yet to come, like he was some kind of Christ figure.

9.  That phrase that triggered Dolores, These violent delights have violent ends, may be Arnold's back door.

A different kind of back door, the role of suffering in forming character.

Something so very Biblical in that, eh?

[Astromech]

1 minute ago, Trebla said:

So much to digest. William as MiB seems almost the least of it now. I had figured that the Maze was consciousness, especially on re-watches when Lawrence's lil girl told MiB that the Maze "is not for you". But I am floored that Ford was not actually blocking the hosts from consciousness but encouraging it. Bernard murdering Elise and Theresa (and Stubbs?) seems not to save Ford's power but to give Delores time to complete the Maze before the Board took over. How Maeve fit into I'm still not sure...Arnold's code that Ford denied to Bernard at the end? It seems that Ford was one for showing bluster to hide weakness. He did that to Theresa when he said the Board wouldn't overthrow him.

There are still a lot of questions. 

 

Her new narrative Bernard was reading mentioned something about infiltration. I'll have to watch it again, but I'm guessing Ford was trying to get her out of the park and into the real world to observe and adapt, etc.. However, Felix's giving her the location of her  daughter triggered unexpected "human" emotions and her returning to the park to find her.

[Mark Antony]

Awesome episode. Loved that Maeve was programmed to escape. Gonna miss Ed Harris and Anthony Hopkins even though people have been saying they're signed on for season two  

Kinda want to stay away from the internet as much as possible in regards to this show in season two just cause nearly every twist and turn was called out weeks in advance though most were pretty much spelled out on screen by the time they were eventually revealed. 

Samurai world  

[Trebla]

37 minutes ago, Fez said:

Well then. I'm not thrilled with all the twists that took, but it was so well-executed (no pun) that I'm up for Season 2. I was originally thinking I might not bother. Also, I am way into Armistice (did everyone catch the post-credits stinger?). My thoughts:

Thank you for mentioning the stinger! I missed it to jump online. She is SO awesome. 

eta: I also loved when she and Hector realized that they had automatic weapons to shoot. They both practically "squeed!"

 

23 minutes ago, Astromech said:

Her new narrative Bernard was reading mentioned something about infiltration. I'll have to watch it again, but I'm guessing Ford was trying to get her out of the park and into the real world to observe and adapt, etc.. However, Felix's giving her the location of her  daughter triggered unexpected "human" emotions and her returning to the park to find her.

Yeah, her how storyline is beyond me at this point but it gave us some good stuff. Her "Oh FFS, you aren't one of us!" to Felix when he started wonder made me belly laugh. You know, I lamented that with Bernard being a host and William the MiB that there was a not a single GOOD human on the show. In the end, Felix was a good person. 

[Pro Augustis]

Overall I quite liked the finale. The best moment, I think, was the MiB's smile (or so I took it at least) right at the end, though every moment of Ford was also spectacular. Everything came together sufficiently well to satisfy me. The interlocking timelines and general mystique of the show worked very well, so well that I rather wish this were the end, as I have no idea how a second season could generate the same weight after (seemingly) discarding the vast majority of what was set up. 

I assumed that the security officer's ambush was to stop him from pursuing his concerns about Bernard, assuming that Ford noticed them and/or Bernard reported those concerns at some point. 

As for Maeve, my best guess is that she was supposed to take the train and track down/kill Abernathy, lest humans on the outside can recreate the hosts. Her turning back then would have been breaking that loop/programming. 

[Baitac]

The MiB's hatred of Dolores (not a host,natch!) was due to unrequited love? She's a robot! I was really hoping that some things had been different. Maybe because of all the spoilers that we became aware of. It was all true. Pain makes you human. There were two timelines, the MiB was William, Bernard was Arnold, Dolores was Wyatt. One silly thing but the photo was dropped in the middle of nowhere but was found in the corral of Abernathy farm. Yes, the photo was thirty years old. 

The good thing is that pretty much all the hosts, including Maeve and Bernard are inside the park and safe. Bernard can continue programming. I think that Westworld is done for now. Next year the show should take us to another world. Maybe some of our hosts will be back. 20th Century World? Samurai World would be good, if they do a Shogun type story.

in the end the show played like a great Greek tragedy. You can't beat the classics. Well done.

[Fez]

38 minutes ago, Fez said:

What the hell happened to Stubbs? And Elsie? Loose threads or forgotten threads?

Because reddit is insane, apparently they've already cracked clues in the Delos websites that HBO created, proving that Elsie is alive. 

Quote

 

http://delosincorporated.com/

Type reverie into the admin box, press enter. It plays a video then prints a ton of text onto the screen.

It includes the line:

235 [ 675.371511] Code: 61 48 52 30 63 44 6f 76 4c 32 52 6c 62 47 39 7a 61 57 35 6a 62 33 4a 77 62 33 4a 68 64 47 56 6b 4c 6d 4e 76 62 53 39 32 61 57 52 6c 62 79 39 70 62 6e 52 79 59 53 39 30 59 57 4a 73 5a 58 51 75 62 58 41 30 44 51 70 6f 64 48 52 77 4f 69 38 76 5a 47 56 73 62 33 4e 70 62 6d 4e 76 63 6e 42 76 63 6d 46 30 5a 57 51 75 59 32 39 74 4c 32 46 7a 63 32 56 30 63 79 39 30 63 6d 46 75 63 32 31 70 63 33 4e 70 62 32 34 75 62 58 41 30

It's hex. Translated to text, it's

aHR0cDovL2RlbG9zaW5jb3Jwb3JhdGVkLmNvbS92aWRlby9pbnRyYS90YWJsZXQubXA0DQpodHRwOi8vZGVsb3NpbmNvcnBvcmF0ZWQuY29tL2Fzc2V0cy90cmFuc21pc3Npb24ubXA0

Which is also actually Base64, and translates to this:

http://delosincorporated.com/video/intra/tablet.mp4 http://delosincorporated.com/assets/transmission.mp4

Elsie is alive?

 

Its been less than an hour.

[Castel]

Goddamn. I guess everyone on the  chessmaster Ford was right.

He reminds me of Castro in World War Z in that he had the utter unmitigated gall to be on the right side of every coming wave 

I had seen the theory of  Dolores being Wyatt but totally missed connecting it to Arnold's death. 

I also thought they wouldn't have him be behind Maeve but apparently not. I was also totally wrong on MiB and his motivations too.  Interesting to see if he comes back. He really has nowhere to go. He can't chase the maze nor can he join the hosts and he's just a weak old executive, I don't expect him to be fighting hosts on an even keel. 

[Castel]

1 minute ago, Fez said:

Because reddit is insane, apparently they've already cracked clues in the Delos websites that HBO created, proving that Elsie is alive. 

Its been less than an hour.

It's amazing how  industruious  they've been. 

I don't know that I agree that this sort of crowdsourcing hurts the product as some have said. I saw most of the theories and the ones that ended up being true and the final product was still amazing. 

 

 

[Pro Augustis]

1 minute ago, Castel said:

It's amazing how  industruious  they've been. 

I don't know that I agree that this sort of crowdsourcing hurts the product as some have said. I saw most of the theories and the ones that ended up being true and the final product was still amazing. 

 

 

I am still trying to decide how I feel about that. The reveal of the MiB certainly felt rather less spectacular after having been reading about it for so long. Then again, the speculation is a lot of what made people so interested. 

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

I wonder if Ghost Nation is going to keep Elsie and Stubbs alive and rescue MiB. I also can't wait to see Ford again.