Crazy solution for why Jaqen was in the Black Cells

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

@Lost Melnibonean

My quote was referring to Amory's guards in Harrenhal. These corpses were burned.

Duh. See, I am a dufus. I saw Shagwell, and filled in the rest cause I had just reread that chapter a few days ago. 

[BalerionTheCat]

8 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

To the FM they are, yes. The weird thing is that FM seems to regard Rh'llor as an aspect or a face of the god of death, while Rh'llorists themselves think their god is the god of life and his enemy the god of death. It's probably the same with the Black Goat. Thsoe who revere the Black Goat in Qohor probably regard him as more than a god of death alone, but to the FM he's an aspect of the god of death. In contrast, the FM don't mistake Mother/Father/Maiden/Warrior/Smith/Crone with the god of death. They only have the Stranger in the HoBaW of the Faith of 7 for anyone praying for someone's death.

So, clearly the FM have their own interpretation of a god's purpose than its own worshippers, especially when it comes to more monotheistic or duotheistic religions. Since a polytheistic religion such as the 7 already identifies several aspects/faces to their one god, the FM can pick just the aspect representative of death for any Westerosi praying for death, while they can't for a Rh'llorist.  

This is exactly my concern. What is Rh'llor exactly? Is it also a face of the god of death? If so, why would there be a war between him and the Others. Who seems, unless completely mistaken, the pure manifestation of death.

ETA: Or the Red Priests are completely mistaken about the will of their god. Which also seems absurd.

[sweetsunray]

21 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

This is exactly my concern. What is Rh'llor exactly? Is it also a face of the god of death? If so, why would there be a war between him and the Others. Who seems, unless completely mistaken, the pure manifestation of death.

ETA: Or the Red Priests are completely mistaken about the will of their god. Which also seems absurd.

The Others are not a pure manifestation of death imo. The wights as undead and neverborn would be an abomination to death. Death is something that is part of nature and comes for everybody (rich, poor, healthy, sick, violent and brutal as well as giving and nurturing) and everything. Undead defy the natural order.

[BalerionTheCat]

51 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

The Others are not a pure manifestation of death imo. The wights as undead and neverborn would be an abomination to death. Death is something that is part of nature and comes for everybody (rich, poor, healthy, sick, violent and brutal as well as giving and nurturing) and everything. Undead defy the natural order.

Apparently the Others have a master, the god R'hllor is at war against. It seems this god has some control over death. He (the Others) can reanimate corpses. But the wights are not the men they were before. It seems a bit different for Dondarrion, Cat or Coldhands. Was it R'hllor or the Old Gods doing? IMO R'hllor is not the guy answering for free the prayers of his drunken priests. IMO, R'hllor is not behind Cat's return. In fact, just a crazy speculation, but I believe Cat is there for more than bringing justice to the Freys. She is now a servant of Death, the Stranger. Again in AFfC:

A trestle table had been set up across the cave, in a cleft in the rock. Behind it sat a woman all in grey, cloaked and hooded. In her hands was a crown, a bronze circlet ringed by iron swords. She was studying it, her fingers stroking the blades as if to test their sharpness. Her eyes glimmered under her hood.
Grey was the color of the silent sisters, the handmaidens of the Stranger. Brienne felt a shiver climb her spine. Stoneheart.

Like the Silent Sisters, she never speaks. She is quite looking like some Cat met before:

But outside her chambers she found Utherydes Wayn waiting with two women clad in grey, their faces cowled save for their eyes. Catelyn knew at once why they were here.

And about death itself, my previous quote had a "funny" ending I didn't insert before:

All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him ... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?

[sweetsunray]

16 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Apparently the Others have a master, the god R'hllor is at war against. It seems this god has some control over death. He (the Others) can reanimate corpses. But the wights are not the men they were before. It seems a bit different for Dondarrion, Cat or Coldhands. Was it R'hllor or the Old Gods doing? IMO R'hllor is not the guy answering for free the prayers of his drunken priests. IMO, R'hllor is not behind Cat's return. In fact, just a crazy speculation, but I believe Cat is there for more than bringing justice to the Freys. She is now a servant of Death, the Stranger. Again in AFfC:

A trestle table had been set up across the cave, in a cleft in the rock. Behind it sat a woman all in grey, cloaked and hooded. In her hands was a crown, a bronze circlet ringed by iron swords. She was studying it, her fingers stroking the blades as if to test their sharpness. Her eyes glimmered under her hood.
Grey was the color of the silent sisters, the handmaidens of the Stranger. Brienne felt a shiver climb her spine. Stoneheart.

Like the Silent Sisters, she never speaks. She is quite looking like some Cat met before:

But outside her chambers she found Utherydes Wayn waiting with two women clad in grey, their faces cowled save for their eyes. Catelyn knew at once why they were here.

And about death itself, my previous quote had a "funny" ending I didn't insert before:

All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him ... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?

Well I agree that Beric and Cat are something else than the wights. They're not animated dead corpses, but become type of rulers of the Riverlands that becomes more and more underworldly. The North was already underworldy, where the Starks were a type of Hades-like rulers of the underworld and have as ultimate job - to make sure the dead don't trouble the land of the living. When Ned dies, Robb gets this responsibility, but he annexes the Riverlands. Meanwhile several other underworldly rulers try to claim rule over the North: subaquatic related rulers such as the Greyjoys (Poseidon for example was a god of the underworld too for a while), Mayan-Xibalba like underwordly rulers (flaying Boltons) and once again a subaquatic related ruler (Stannis lord of Dragonstone and used to be master of the fleet)  Ultimately their death related role is actually to preserve the natural balance... the living have no business meddling with the underworld, but the underworld has no business meddling with the power balance in the living world (the south) either. Of course that all ties with the seasonal balance - winter is the season of death (when fertility aspects such as Persephone stay in the underworld), but spring and summer is the season of life.

I agree that Cat and Beric are not revived by Rh'llor, but fire magic is part of it. I just don't think fire magic is exclusively used by Rh'llorists alone. Cat and Beric can die again by normal mortal means. They're not anybody's slaves or puppets either. They are independently thinking persons, even though they are not the same as they were in their first life.

But the Others try to enslave the dead in a zombie like state. This certainly is not something the FM would agree with. And then yes I think of the KM quote you posted.