Diva Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I was throwing around some ideas for a convention game, hopefully the first of several sessions (probably using the Guardians of Order / d20 system), and trying to work out the timeline changes I want to make. As my usual brains trust will hopefully be some of my players, I can't discuss with them, and realised I could run it by people here. I haven't been here for ages, so hi to the old names (waves to Mormont) and nice to meet the newer people Anyway here goes. Game Concept: Ned Stark and his entourage escaped King's Landing either before or around the time of Robert's accident (after he found out about Cersei's children). He returned to Winterfell and called a mini council of allies and not totally enemies to discuss options. Characters: Ned Stark (The North), Edmure Tully (The Riverlands), Bryndan Tully (representing Lysa Tully / the Vale), Asha Greyjoy (The Ironborn), Oberyn Martell (Dorne), Maege Mormont (other bannermen will be run as NPCs) Game Concept: The background/ setup to the game is basically the same as written in Game of Thrones, until Ned Stark works out the details of Jon Arryn's investigations. At that point, Ned leaves Kings Landing with his family and entourage after learning about Cersei's infidelity etc. Possible problem: Sansa might be missing, they may need to leave without her. They sail to White Harbour, where Ned sends ravens to: Stannis, telling him that he has found out something serious and will support him as Robert's heir (depending on timing, he may not know of Robert's death) Hoster Tully, requesting a representative at Winterfell Lysa Arryn, requesting a representative at Winterfell (he can give an update on the investigation into Jon's death too) Prince Doran (no friend of the Lannisters), advising that he has some important information that Doran should know Balon Greyjoy, requesting a representative at Winterfell (would he sign this one Hand of the King? He wouldn't want to create an opportunity for unrest, but Greyjoy is one of the Parmount Lords) Winterfell - to let Robb know he is on his way back, and to request the heads of the major houses come to Winterfell (eg Umber, Karstark, Bolton, Mormont, Glover, and Manderley will perhaps accompany them from White Harbour) Scenario: The session will open with everyone gathering together, with most having just arrived. Each of the characters will have their own agendas, in addition to wanting to find out what has been going on at King's Landing. Ned will initially be encouraging people to support Stannis for the Iron Throne. He is also somewhat offended that Balon has sent Asha rather than Victarion or Euron (and it was indeed intended as an insult) - but I think Asha will find the way Maege is treated as an equal quite interesting, which is why I wanted the two of them as characters. I've also got a bunch of secret stuff planned for various characters (ok - mostly Dorne), and some set piece external events with various NPCs. The con sessions are 4 hours long, and it could cover a single day council meeting, or a week long council meeting with other stuff in between, depending on how people want to play it. Intrigue sessions tend to cover a longer period as players want time to lurk in dark corridors, search rooms, have secret late night meetings etc, but I'm more than happy to run with that. My probably is usually too much material rather than not enough, but I run character driven games. Possible outcomes could include support for Stannis (unlikely, I know - my 2nd module is penciled in as 'Dragonstone council. Stannis losing his shit'); the North seceding, various other permutations therein, or - my personal favourite - the Seven Kingdoms splintering once again into seven kingdoms. Other relevant info: I'm not intending to have Drogo die. Therefore no funeral pyre. Therefore no dragons. Dany can suck it. My song of 'fire' will probably be from the Red God, and I have other plans for the Iron Throne. I'm playing a game of Kreigspeil Chess against Prince Doran: "black has moved". There these are the questions I'm currently working on, if you have some feedback or suggestions please let me know: Any suggestions for the timing of the Starks to leave Kings Landing - interactions with Cersei / Robert's accident / the investigation etc Would Sansa be left behind if she didn't know that they were leaving (ie if Ned wasn't dumb enough to warn her first)? I thought she could be a bargaining tool / prisoner exchange for Tyrion later on Is leaving Catelyn (and Tyrion) at The Eyrie reasonable if Bryndan Tully goes to Winterfell? I figured he deemed it safer to travel without her at this time. Plus he is at the lower castle and can leave more quickly Edmure is kind of a waste of space, but the most appropriate Riverlord to send. Any suggestions for an agenda, other than to scope out potential brides? Is there any substance to my guess that Maege may be in contact with her brother? That is another reason I thought she would be a good character to have. She may have some knowledge of Jon and what he is up to. I have a situation that involves Jon*, and he would be invited to leave The Wall. When does he take his final vows in the book? It is right at the end from memory isn't it? Are there many cases of trainees leaving? (Note: At this stage Ned will be advised of this situation first, and have to decide if he is passing it on to Jon at the Wall. It is going to be a Big Deal) Anyway that is where I am up to so far. If anyone would like to bounce some ideas around too that would be great. Cheers! * I am extremely pleased with this, and it is so good it was ALMOST worth having Catelyn as a character just so she could lose her mind when she found out. But not quite. 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The hairy bear Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 There are a couple of things in your scenario that I found out of character for Ned. First, I don't see him leaving the city without his two daughters. In the books he puts Sansa's live before his own honour, so he would stay in KL until he could rescue both his girls disregarding the risks. The other, is that I don't see him going to Winterfell and summoning a council there. Once he flees KL, from Ned's perspective the next in line is Stannis. It would be a most urgent matter to inform him about the bastardy of Cersei's children and Robert's accident/death. Stannis is in Dragonstone, very close to KL by ship. It would make no sense to pass by and go to Winterfell. Again, from Ned's perspective, a summit to fight against the Lannisters should be presided by Stannis and held at Dragonstone. Which is a more convenient place to meet than cold and isolated Winterfell. Regarding the timeline: I don't see Eddard leaving KL and his post as a Hand while Robert is alive. The scenario I could see working is having someone reveal him before entering the Throne Room that Slynt and the City Watch had been bribed by the Lannisters. then he would flee the city. When Jon says his vows (Jon VI), word of Robert's death (or Eddards capture) has not reached the Wall. He receives the news in his next chapter (Jon VII) Tyrion leaves the Vale much before Robert's death. Other random thoughts: You don't mention Renly or the Tyrells in your plan, but they would be major players in your scenario. it makes no sense for Eddard to send a raven to Oberyn, but not to the lords of Highgarden or Storm's End. Perhaps an interesting idea would be explaining that Ned send the ravens, but they did not come to the meeting. Then, in the middle of the game, the news of Renly's proclamation as king could reach the council. I honestly don't see why Maege Mormont would be summoned to such a meeting. I assume that the negotiating room would include only the representatives of regions (Stannis for the Throne, Ned for the North, Edmure for the Riverlands, Brynden for the Vale, Oberyn for Dorne and Asha for the Iron Islands). Including there the major lords of the North without including an equal number of major lords from the other regions wouldn't be welcomed. Even if Maege was around, she wouldn't be a true player and as a loyal bannerman couldn't do much more than agree to everything Eddard says. I don't think that Ned would be offended by Asha being sent to negotiate in Balon's name. She is just an ambassador, just as Robb sent Catelyn to speak in his name in Renly's camp. No one was offended that time. And Ned is not old fashioned in this regard, as we can see in how he adapts to Arya not behaving as a proper lady should. Stannis, and not Ned, would the the one that would dislike Arya the most (for being a woman, and for being a pirate). Possible agenda's for Edmure: Tywin would be at the Golden Tooth with a huge army as they spoke, so Edmure's would be interested in pressing the others to defend the Riverlands asap. He may also try to convince Stannis to give him some Lannister lands (the Northern Coast, or the Golden Tooth itself) in exchange for his support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilish Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Hoster is sick. He will request audience with nobody. Under this timeline I can see a- Eddard will be blamed of trying to kill Robert and spreading lies about the crown prince. He will be expected to return to KL to answer for his crimes b- Balon and Lysa won’t answer to anyone’s letters. Eddard might try to send Cat to deal with her sister c- Tywin will invade the Riverlands d- Eddard raise an army which will be slightly bigger then Robb (people have more faith in him then to the young wolf). The young wolf will remain in Winterfell although Ned wil probably take his wife with him, hoping she’ll be able to bring her sister back to her senses e- Eddard will be stopped by Walder who’ll promise him to marry Robb to a Frey girl if he let him pass. The Freys help Eddard in saving Edmure f- Eddard refuses the crown and declare the North and the Riverlands to Stannis. He bitchslaps Edmure and appoint Brynden as Lord Protector of the Riverlands. g- Balon still invades the North however Asha will not support it for fear of losing her brother. The ironborn do not attack Winterfell and the young wolf manages to repel them to the sea without his father’s help h- Eddard sends emissaries to Renly + to Lysa. i- Eddard’s (ie Robb’s original trap) works. Tywin is defeated and loses most of his troops. Meanwhile Renly dies and Stannis take control over his 20k army j- Eddard negotiates Jamie’s swap with Sansa. k- At this point Lysa join the war mostly pressured by every single Tully + Stannis threats. The NC marches South l- Eddard acts as a guarantee between Stannis and Mace. Willas will marry Sansa and the king promises that the Tyrells will not be stripped of their titles. The Tyrells join Stannis. m- Stannis become king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 17 hours ago, The hairy bear said: There are a couple of things in your scenario that I found out of character for Ned. First, I don't see him leaving the city without his two daughters. In the books he puts Sansa's live before his own honour, so he would stay in KL until he could rescue both his girls disregarding the risks. The other, is that I don't see him going to Winterfell and summoning a council there. Once he flees KL, from Ned's perspective the next in line is Stannis. It would be a most urgent matter to inform him about the bastardy of Cersei's children and Robert's accident/death. Stannis is in Dragonstone, very close to KL by ship. It would make no sense to pass by and go to Winterfell. Again, from Ned's perspective, a summit to fight against the Lannisters should be presided by Stannis and held at Dragonstone. Which is a more convenient place to meet than cold and isolated Winterfell. Regarding the timeline: I don't see Eddard leaving KL and his post as a Hand while Robert is alive. The scenario I could see working is having someone reveal him before entering the Throne Room that Slynt and the City Watch had been bribed by the Lannisters. then he would flee the city. When Jon says his vows (Jon VI), word of Robert's death (or Eddards capture) has not reached the Wall. He receives the news in his next chapter (Jon VII) Tyrion leaves the Vale much before Robert's death. Other random thoughts: You don't mention Renly or the Tyrells in your plan, but they would be major players in your scenario. it makes no sense for Eddard to send a raven to Oberyn, but not to the lords of Highgarden or Storm's End. Perhaps an interesting idea would be explaining that Ned send the ravens, but they did not come to the meeting. Then, in the middle of the game, the news of Renly's proclamation as king could reach the council. I honestly don't see why Maege Mormont would be summoned to such a meeting. I assume that the negotiating room would include only the representatives of regions (Stannis for the Throne, Ned for the North, Edmure for the Riverlands, Brynden for the Vale, Oberyn for Dorne and Asha for the Iron Islands). Including there the major lords of the North without including an equal number of major lords from the other regions wouldn't be welcomed. Even if Maege was around, she wouldn't be a true player and as a loyal bannerman couldn't do much more than agree to everything Eddard says. I don't think that Ned would be offended by Asha being sent to negotiate in Balon's name. She is just an ambassador, just as Robb sent Catelyn to speak in his name in Renly's camp. No one was offended that time. And Ned is not old fashioned in this regard, as we can see in how he adapts to Arya not behaving as a proper lady should. Stannis, and not Ned, would the the one that would dislike Arya the most (for being a woman, and for being a pirate). Possible agenda's for Edmure: Tywin would be at the Golden Tooth with a huge army as they spoke, so Edmure's would be interested in pressing the others to defend the Riverlands asap. He may also try to convince Stannis to give him some Lannister lands (the Northern Coast, or the Golden Tooth itself) in exchange for his support. Thanks for the reply it was just an idle thought about Sansa, because of her resistance to leaving. I wasn't really tied to the idea. my thought about him leaving KL before Robert's hunting accident was that he couldn't stand the thought of being responsible for the children's death (he kept remembering Elia and the children), and wasn't sure how Robert would react (but knew it wouldn't be well). He also has very little in the way of military support in KL himself, so better to get to Stannis - hence my thought of going to White Harbour and contacting him from there. However you make a good point about going to Dragonstone, I hadn't really considered that because this is the 'what the hell is Stannis doing' point in time. Do you think Ned would take his whole entourage there? And if so, would Stannis even want them there? He is up to all kinds of things with Melisandre (and Brooding). Perhaps Ned could stop off on the way through, talk to Stannis (confirm the same discoveries Stannis and Jon Arryn made, and that Cersei admitted it to him), and then maybe call the council at Stannis's behest. But not at Dragonstone. Which brings me to location. I've been studying the map again. You are right, Winterfell is too far. It looks like the Manderley's are going to be hosting this party. So KL > Dragonstone > WH. Ned stays and sends most of the household back to Winterfell (which will get rid of Sansa, Arya, Jeyne Poole, Septa Mordane etc) Timeline: Leaving after Robert's death could work like that, I had thought that he was trying to save Joff / Myc / Tommen from Robert's wrath. And he is also fed up with Robert's drunkenness and the cesspool he has willingly settled in. Not knowing that Stannis has become a religious nutter, he thinks that Stannis - a hard but fair man - will not punish children for what are ultimately crimes of their parents. I also thought to avoid the Protector mess, at least at this time. I'll think about it though, it might still be worth putting in. Having the Stark's leave before Robert dies gives me a little more time to play around with for Jon. I know he can still leave the Wall (and return) as a brother of the Watch, however it would be hard if he has just taken his vows. I've got a big play from Dorne in mind for Jon Snow, and I want him to be a character in a later module I couldn't remember about Tyrion - I just moved house and my books aren't unpacked yet (the RP book is but the font is about 6 point and I can barely read it ) Other: I had mention Renly and the Tyrells, but apparently it went missing in the formatting weirdness. Oh well. Ned probably won't have the conversation with Renly due to the shorter timeline in KL, but I like the idea of contacting Mace and not getting a reply. I'd like to have another female character. It can't be Cersei or Lysa for obvious reasons, and I don't want Catelyn because that is just TOO many Tullys. I had originally thought of Arianne Martell but I realised there was no way she would be there on her own while Oberyn was alive. (I still have her penciled in as an NPC for potential marriage brokering if that comes up.) I can't see Olenna Tyrell turning up (more's the pity!), and there aren't really many other options other than bannermen (or women). I thought Maege was good for a few reasons, including her tie to Jeor. But happy for other suggestions. I wasn't clear - I don't think Ned would be offended by Asha being there. I think he knows that Balon meant it as an insult. While Asha does captain her own ship, women are not valued as leaders, and Balon isn't likely to take much notice of whatever news or suggestions she brings back. Given the source, perhaps that is likely even if he had gone himself. I like those goals for Edmure. Plus no doubt some general whinging and entitlement, which are of course his specialties Thanks again for the feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 18 hours ago, devilish said: Hoster is sick. He will request audience with nobody. Under this timeline I can see a- Eddard will be blamed of trying to kill Robert and spreading lies about the crown prince. He will be expected to return to KL to answer for his crimes b- Balon and Lysa won’t answer to anyone’s letters. Eddard might try to send Cat to deal with her sister c- Tywin will invade the Riverlands d- Eddard raise an army which will be slightly bigger then Robb (people have more faith in him then to the young wolf). The young wolf will remain in Winterfell although Ned wil probably take his wife with him, hoping she’ll be able to bring her sister back to her senses e- Eddard will be stopped by Walder who’ll promise him to marry Robb to a Frey girl if he let him pass. The Freys help Eddard in saving Edmure f- Eddard refuses the crown and declare the North and the Riverlands to Stannis. He bitchslaps Edmure and appoint Brynden as Lord Protector of the Riverlands. g- Balon still invades the North however Asha will not support it for fear of losing her brother. The ironborn do not attack Winterfell and the young wolf manages to repel them to the sea without his father’s help h- Eddard sends emissaries to Renly + to Lysa. i- Eddard’s (ie Robb’s original trap) works. Tywin is defeated and loses most of his troops. Meanwhile Renly dies and Stannis take control over his 20k army j- Eddard negotiates Jamie’s swap with Sansa. k- At this point Lysa join the war mostly pressured by every single Tully + Stannis threats. The NC marches South l- Eddard acts as a guarantee between Stannis and Mace. Willas will marry Sansa and the king promises that the Tyrells will not be stripped of their titles. The Tyrells join Stannis. m- Stannis become king. a. That is why I wanted Eddard to be gone before Robert's 'hunting accident'. Given his broken leg it isn't as if he was able to go hunting himself. And he doesn't want to put his findings down in writing and trust them to the vagaries of a raven b. I don't think Lysa would answer for any reason other than the investigation into Jon's death. She blamed the Lannisters and wants to know if Ned believes her (ie if she got away with his murder). And if Balon ignores the council, perhaps Asha might come on her own - as much to see what Theon is like as much as anything else. I have half a mind to do a version of their reunion scene at the start of the session. e. Robb will probably be betrothed by the time the council is finished (there will be 2, if not 3 options, depending on what players do). Walder Frey will be too late. He can have Edmure if the little fish is still swimming free. I think the rest works It also leaves most of Westeros intact for the real fight, which is in the far north. It won't get to play out that far in one session, but my idea is to run a games over a few conventions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilish Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 21 hours ago, Diva said: a. That is why I wanted Eddard to be gone before Robert's 'hunting accident'. Given his broken leg it isn't as if he was able to go hunting himself. And he doesn't want to put his findings down in writing and trust them to the vagaries of a raven b. I don't think Lysa would answer for any reason other than the investigation into Jon's death. She blamed the Lannisters and wants to know if Ned believes her (ie if she got away with his murder). And if Balon ignores the council, perhaps Asha might come on her own - as much to see what Theon is like as much as anything else. I have half a mind to do a version of their reunion scene at the start of the session. e. Robb will probably be betrothed by the time the council is finished (there will be 2, if not 3 options, depending on what players do). Walder Frey will be too late. He can have Edmure if the little fish is still swimming free. I think the rest works It also leaves most of Westeros intact for the real fight, which is in the far north. It won't get to play out that far in one session, but my idea is to run a games over a few conventions. A- I still think that Eddard would be accused of it. The North will be throwing some serious allegations at the crown pretty soon and the crown will respond in kind. Cersei might order the Gold cloaks to grab the first Northerner they can find in KL, and force him to confess that he managed to enter the red keep and spiked Robert's wine. Torture work wonders and while no one will believe the lies those who want to be at the Lannister side will believe it. I am often accused of putting too much weight on the Reach and I still insist that had the war of 5 kings evolved in the GOT timeline the Tyrells were the decisive factor. However I do believe that having Eddard escaping would change things radically. Unlike Robb, who wasn’t even at age to lead the North and had to rely on mummy’s authority at times, Eddard is a proven general who has got plenty of experience in keeping his bannermen in line and in conducting diplomacy in the Northern hemisphere of Westeros. The consequences of that will be felt from day 1.For example, Eddard would most probably raise the banners earlier then Robb did. Because of it, he could afford avoiding the twins, which makes perfectly sense considering that Eddard KNOWS how much of a stuck up Walder is and how much grief his father in law had caused to old Frey. He would also refuse the crown, he would declare for Stannis, he would leave a proven man whom he could trust to raise more troops in the North, he would keep Roose Bolton directly responsible for what his bastard did in Hornwood (and he might lose his head unless he orders the troops at the dreadfort to arrest Ramsey) and he would never let Theon leave. With Eddard around, Cat won’t be needed so much, which means she can go to the Vale to speak with Lysa. Eddard would probably speak directly to the Vale Bannermen, playing the honourable card with the like of Royce etc. A marriage between the Starks and House Royce might be enough to convince old Royce that it is safe to stage a peaceful revolt and strip Lysa from its regency especially if the Riverlands pitch in (a marriage between Ysilla and Edmure?). That would see most of the knights of the Vale joining the war. In terms of the Riverlands he would, most probably, exploit the fact that Edmure is not LP yet to put the black fish in command of the Riverlands army. Eddard will argue that he had already fought side by side with the Blackfish and they have a good understanding with one another, something he doesn’t have with Edmure. Even if he does chastise his nephew once in a while, it will look less bad then having a boy (ie Robb) and a milksop chastising his older uncle in his own palace. That leads us to the next characteristic Eddard has that is often underrated in this forum which is his honour. Ned is a frigging war hero, an honourable person who contributed greatly to help Robert win and retain his throne. He’s nearly at par with the likes of Barristan Selmy (whom, with Eddard around, he will probably travel north rather than to Essos). Stannis will surely give Ned’s opinion more consideration that that of a boy with no military experience, who ends up crowning himself after winning his first battle. In turn, the Tyrells would probably be keen in negotiating with Stannis if Eddard acts as a negotiator. Let us face it, the Florent girl is old, Stannis is in a loveless marriage and Margaery is single. Could Stannis be persuaded to divorce her in favour of a younger, more beautiful and more powerful Margaery? I doubt it. There again, its also out of Stannis nature to use magic to cheat his way to success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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