Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Boris the Blade said: Bigotry was the biggest reason it happened, oh and the piece of shit electoral college. Again, fuck that narraitive and fuck blaming identity politics. White people need to grow the fuck up, specifically the bigoted rural white people. Either that or just die off already. So you're just going to lose to the party that doesn't ignore this demographic? Until it "grows the fuck up"? Or dies? I have to hope we can find some sort of middle ground here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Blade Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 15 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said: How exactly are poor, rural whites not marginalized? My belief is that the poor are automatically marginalized simply by the fact of being poor. Stating your wish for poor whites to "die off" plays exactly into the stereotype of liberals that Republicans are pushing. Maybe they should practice the politics they preach and vote for? Pull themselves up by their bootstraps? Or maybe they can do what they tell everyone to do that criticizes the country? Maybe they can just move if they don't like it? 24 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: So you're just going to lose to the party that doesn't ignore this demographic? Until it "grows the fuck up"? Or dies? I have to hope we can find some sort of middle ground here. There is no on fucking middle ground with people that voted for a bigot sexual predator that is employing white nationalists and endorsed by the kkk an so neo nazis. These people voted for the bigotry even if they say it wasn't economics. They said fuck marginalized demographics and said white money is more important to them. Oh, we can also add the environment to things they don't give a fuck about. So yea, there is no middle ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I don't see it as just 'poor whites' or whites ignored by the liberals. I see it mores as 'divided and conquered whites' by the GOP's years long wedge strategies of 'welfare babies' 'immigrants taking our jobs' 'abortion is for sluts' 'public schools and unions bad' 'Obama gonna take yur guns' and 'liberals are the debil!'. Trump came along and really, unwittingly in the beginning, talked about those issues from the get go, more out in the open than others before him. He just didn't dog whistle the wedges, he shouted them from the rooftops. What he promised in return? Jobs? So have the governors of Wisconsin and Kansas, and look where they're at, hint, skyrocketing unemployment. Low taxes? Which result in cutting, cutting of services and public education and other bad polices. Building walls and being really mean to brown people? Nothing that poor whites, middle class whites and rich whites haven't all heard before. But why did it work this time? The wedge strategy and the divide and conquer finally found it's champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, Boris the Blade said: Maybe they should practice the politics they preach and vote for? Pull themselves up by their bootstraps? Or maybe they can do what they tell everyone to do that criticizes the country? Maybe they can just move if they don't like it? "They employ unsound logic, and some of them are prejudiced, therefore they can't be marginalized." Extremely sound logic there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 6 minutes ago, Boris the Blade said: There is no on fucking middle ground with people that voted for a bigot sexual predator that is employing white nationalists and endorsed by the kkk an so neo nazis. These people voted for the bigotry even if they say it wasn't economics. They said fuck marginalized demographics and said white money is more important to them. Oh, we can also add the environment to things they don't give a fuck about. So yea, there is no middle ground. I think you're making the same mistake that Hillary made with her Basket of Deplorables comment. I think it's unfair to lump all of these people into the same box. Saw this Jon Stewart blurb yesterday, and I think it makes an important point. It is not helping anyone to classify all Trump voters as being racist, sexist or moronic. We really need to temper the whole Us vs Them routine to some degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 1 minute ago, LongRider said: I don't see it as just 'poor whites' or whites ignored by the liberals. I see it mores as 'divided and conquered whites' by the GOP's years long wedge strategies of 'welfare babies' 'immigrants taking our jobs' 'abortion is for sluts' 'public schools and unions bad' 'Obama gonna take yur guns' and 'liberals are the debil!'. Trump came along and really, unwittingly in the beginning, talked about those issues from the get go, more out in the open than others before him. He just didn't dog whistle the wedges, he shouted them from the rooftops. A large number of the same people supported Sanders, I honestly don't think they've been indoctrinated by the GOP's usual tricks, or else they would have turned on the Democrats a long time ago. Your insinuation that they were too daft to be influenced by the dog whistles of old and had to have Trump openly state who he was attacking speaks of how little you think of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 16 minutes ago, Boris the Blade said: Maybe they should practice the politics they preach and vote for? Pull themselves up by their bootstraps? Or maybe they can do what they tell everyone to do that criticizes the country? Maybe they can just move if they don't like it? There is no on fucking middle ground with people that voted for a bigot sexual predator that is employing white nationalists and endorsed by the kkk an so neo nazis. These people voted for the bigotry even if they say it wasn't economics. They said fuck marginalized demographics and said white money is more important to them. Oh, we can also add the environment to things they don't give a fuck about. So yea, there is no middle ground. There is a fucking middle ground. This is the middle ground. "We're not going to give you a candidate that is supported by the KKK and neo Nazis or will employ white nationalists. We will still be strong advocates for minorities and social justice. However we will not marginalize the white working class rural voters, we will also advocate for their economic and personal freedoms and well being." Maybe the minorities still have it worse than poor working class whites, maybe it is a sore point or hard pill to swallow to feel like they need to be catered to, but it's either take the middle ground or don't win elections for the next however many years. The racists and the misogynists and the other "ists" aren't going to come over, ever, but maybe enough of the people just worried about their own well being but have no ingrained to the bone bigotry hatred in them will come over to put things back on a moving forward track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Blade Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 12 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: I think you're making the same mistake that Hillary made with her Basket of Deplorables comment. I think it's unfair to lump all of these people into the same box. Saw this Jon Stewart blurb yesterday, and I think it makes an important point. It is not helping anyone to classify all Trump voters as being racist, sexist or moronic. We really need to temper the whole Us vs Them routine to some degree. And I think you're being naive. I think it is perfectly fair to lump them into the same box since they still supported a fucking sexual predator bigot even after everything he said and after people came forward and some in graphic detail explained what he did to them. You're not helping any burying your head in the sand. No, we don't need to temper it. We need to ramp it the fuck up. Also, Stewart is a fucking coward as well for what he said there. He is another detached white boy regardless of leaning left. I doubt he lives in an area where people are worried about premiums. This election was about bigotry pure and simple. Anyone that voted for Trump is a bigot. Being indifferent to bigotry and worrying more about your personal financial status makes you a bigot since you are saying your money is more important than the lives of marginalized demographics. 1 minute ago, drawkcabi said: There is a fucking middle ground. This is the middle ground. "We're not going to give you a candidate that is supported by the KKK and neo Nazis or will employ white nationalists. We will still be strong advocates for minorities and social justice. However we will not marginalize the white working class rural voters, we will also advocate for their economic and personal freedoms and well being." Maybe the minorities still have it worse than poor working class whites, maybe it is a sore point or hard pill to swallow to feel like they need to be catered to, but it's either take the middle ground or don't win elections for the next however many years. The racists and the misogynists and the other "ists" aren't going to come over, ever, but maybe enough of the people just worried about their own well being but have no ingrained to the bone bigotry hatred in them will come over to put things back on a moving forward track. They showed there is no middle ground when they still supported him even after all the bigotry he spewed and said he sexually assaults women and had 13 women come forward saying they were sexually assaulted by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, drawkcabi said: There is a fucking middle ground. This is the middle ground. "We're not going to give you a candidate that is supported by the KKK and neo Nazis or will employ white nationalists. We will still be strong advocates for minorities and social justice. However we will not marginalize the white working class rural voters, we will also advocate for their economic and personal freedoms and well being." Maybe the minorities still have it worse than poor working class whites, maybe it is a sore point or hard pill to swallow to feel like they need to be catered to, but it's either take the middle ground or don't win elections for the next however many years. The racists and the misogynists and the other "ists" aren't going to come over, ever, but maybe enough of the people just worried about their own well being but have no ingrained to the bone bigotry hatred in them will come over to put things back on a moving forward track. I am beginning to doubt that it is possible, to these people the Democrat is the enemy. They cannot and will not ever look past that label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Just now, Pony Queen Jace said: I am beginning to doubt that it is possible, to these people the Democrat is the enemy. They cannot and will not ever look past that label. They voted Obama in twice, they supported Sanders, they were Democrat states for decades. They could be won over again, the Democrats just need to fix their act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Blade Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Pony Queen Jace said: I am beginning to doubt that it is possible, to these people the Democrat is the enemy. They cannot and will not ever look past that label. Yup. How many republican politicians said they don't endorse him but are still voting for him? How many voters said he is a jackass but they are still voting or him because he is a republican? There is no middle ground with anyone that voted for Trump. They are deplorable, they are scum, they are trash, they are worthless fucking pieces of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Blade Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, Sullen said: They voted Obama in twice, they supported Sanders, they were Democrat states for decades. They could be won over again, the Democrats just need to fix their act. Nah, this country just needs to deal with how bigoted it really is. Not to mention getting rid of the EC. Oh and deal with gerrymandering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, Sullen said: A large number of the same people supported Sanders, I honestly don't think they've been indoctrinated by the GOP's usual tricks, or else they would have turned on the Democrats a long time ago. Your insinuation that they were too daft to be influenced by the dog whistles of old and had to have Trump openly state who he was attacking speaks of how little you think of them. The wedge issues still matter to many and they haven't gone away which is the point I'm trying to make. Many of Trump's supporters told us that he wasn't 'PC' and that's why I argue that he talked openly of the wedge issues. Trump hasn't really promised them anything that others have promised, he framed it in the context of the wedge issues. How many Sanders supporters voted for Trump anyway? As some voted for Trump, some for Hilary and some 3rd party. They were all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 6 minutes ago, Boris the Blade said: Nah, this country just needs to deal with how bigoted it really is. Because telling people they are bigots has a tendency to win them over, or to discourage them from voting against you. 6 minutes ago, Boris the Blade said: Not to mention getting rid of the EC. A pipe dream if you are unwilling to get the white working class on your side. As it is, it's going to turn more and more into a voting bloc driven by the dark side of identity politics. Your unwillingness to cooperate with working class whites due to the bullshit tribal nature of American politics will doom you to severe regression on the social and economic level, keep that shit going and you're going to lose senate seats in two years. Congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Blade Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Sullen said: Because telling people they are bigots has a tendency to win them over, or to discourage them from voting against you. A pipe dream if you are unwilling to get the white working class on your side. As it is, it's going to turn more and more into a voting bloc driven by the dark side of identity politics. Your unwillingness to cooperate with working class whites due to the bullshit tribal nature of American politics will doom you to severe regression on the social and economic level, keep that shit going and you're going to lose senate seats in two years. Congratulations. And not calling out bigotry totally makes it go away yea? Lets worry about the feelings of the bigots, that is totally the way to go!!!! I have no reason to cooperate with bigoted trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 8 minutes ago, Sullen said: They voted Obama in twice, they supported Sanders, they were Democrat states for decades. They could be won over again, the Democrats just need to fix their act. Trump got basically the same numbers as Romney, Dems just didn't show up this time. Which says to me to get a stronger candidate. Sure, I am all for a bit of pandering, but do not make promises that must be kept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 6 minutes ago, Sullen said: Your unwillingness to cooperate with working class whites due to the bullshit tribal nature of American politics will doom you to severe regression on the social and economic level, keep that shit going and you're going to lose senate seats in two years. Congratulations. SO MUCH THIS ^^^^^ There has to be a middle ground. That's what this Republic needs to be. We do not want to be a mirror of the GOP. That's not something I want to be, or take part in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelticgar Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 6 minutes ago, Boris the Blade said: And not calling out bigotry totally makes it go away yea? Lets worry about the feelings of the bigots, that is totally the way to go!!!! I have no reason to cooperate with bigoted trash. Aren't you the same person posting about how you "fucking hate white people" on election night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Blade Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: SO MUCH THIS ^^^^^ There has to be a middle ground. That's what this Republic needs to be. We do not want to be a mirror of the GOP. That's not something I want to be, or take part in. Why does the left always have to be the ones to fucking find the middle ground? Seriously, fuck middle ground with these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 No, I refuse to accept that everyone of the 50 + million who voted for Trump are all the same as people in the KKK or neo Nazis or white nationalist organization. I will never say this country is not bigoted or is no longer racist. But back in the 60's and 70's there were many people who opposed the desegregations of white neighborhoods. There were the people who opposed it because they hated minorities, could not stand to live with them, would paint swastikas on their houses or put burning crosses on their lawns. They were the scum of the Earth. Then there were the people who opposed it because they were afraid their property value would go down. They were terrified that something they had worked hard their entire life for and invested so much in would be devalued. My grandfather was one of those people. Did it occur to them that maybe there were people trying to do the same thing they were doing, have the same shot at the "American dream", and were willing to work just as hard or harder even than they did, go through more tests and trials than they could imagine. Maybe it didn't. or maybe it did but their own life and lives of their family were still more important. I can't hate them like I hate the people who want to hurt and diminish others just for hate's sake or just because they are other. Sure you can resign that this is a bigoted country and that is that. You can feel that ALL of them truly are deplorable, as in hopeless. But that's giving up on everything in my eyes. That's something I'm not ready to do and something I can not respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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