Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 The Cuban community in Union City, New Jersey is thrilled too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 plenty to choose from (Jimmy Carter, Juncker, Corbyn), but Trudeau takes the prize for most revolting tribute of a murderous tyrant http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2016/11/26/statement-prime-minister-canada-death-former-cuban-president-fidel-castro Quote “It is with deep sorrow that I learned today of the death of Cuba’s longest serving President. “Fidel Castro was a larger than life leader who served his people for almost half a century. A legendary revolutionary and orator, Mr. Castro made significant improvements to the education and healthcare of his island nation. “While a controversial figure, both Mr. Castro’s supporters and detractors recognized his tremendous dedication and love for the Cuban people who had a deep and lasting affection for “el Comandante”. “I know my father was very proud to call him a friend and I had the opportunity to meet Fidel when my father passed away. It was also a real honour to meet his three sons and his brother President Raúl Castro during my recent visit to Cuba. “On behalf of all Canadians, Sophie and I offer our deepest condolences to the family, friends and many, many supporters of Mr. Castro. We join the people of Cuba today in mourning the loss of this remarkable leader.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 Commodore, one suspects your distaste with Castro has less to do with murder, and rather more to do with economics. If he were a Cuban Pinochet, you'd be all over him (I actually recall this very situation three years ago in the Thatcher thread. People really are just reflecting their political leanings). Anyway, those excited people in Miami will also realise fairly quickly that, Fidel or not, Havana isn't about to just hand the property back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 Whatever your views of his politics, you have to admit that he was a pretty impressive leader. He took over a country at the doorstep of the US at the height of the Cold War and held on to power even after his principle backer disintegrated. Also, check out the list of assassination attempts that he survived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 I'm sure Trump didn't write it and unsure if he even believes it, but this sort of moral clarity is something we haven't seen from Western leaders in a long time. Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 Reported directly last night in the moments after the news was broken to the Cuban people, from my partner who is in Havana. He got into a taxi, whose driver had not heard thew yet. So he broke the news to the driver, who said, "¡No me digas eso. No me digas eso. Yo soy fidelista!" Many, many, many Cubans still love him, and still believe in the Revolution, no matter what the media here wishes us to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 There is going to be a mass gathering in the Plaza de la Revolución tomorrow. My Person and the Cuban music seminare Travelers he's shepherding about will be there. In the past I've attended on occasion when Fidel addressed gatherings in the Plaza for hours. As I wasn't a Cuban I was able to leave, which mostly the Cubans did not, or felt they should not, do. His funeral will be December 4th, is the Day of Changó. So appropriate. That's also the day My Person is scheduled to return home. Maybe it will be like the day he was trying to return with a different Cuban music seminar group, on the day Obama and family on Air Force One was heading for the José Martí airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 6 hours ago, Commodore said: plenty to choose from (Jimmy Carter, Juncker, Corbyn), but Trudeau takes the prize for most revolting tribute of a murderous tyrant http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2016/11/26/statement-prime-minister-canada-death-former-cuban-president-fidel-castro Moral Celery FTW!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 This Trudeau guy seems a smart fellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 The only person who has been able to knock the orange off the top of the front page and in the opening sentence of every talk / news blather has been Fidel Alejandro Castro Ruz. He also did more by far to bring down the old Soviet Union than Reagan did -- while the new so-called US POTUS is allying himself as quickly as he can with the murderous dictator of the new Soviet empire -- -- and Cuban - Russian relations are warming again, after the long freeze of the last 20 + years. Ironies abound, which no one would have appreciated more than Jesuit-trained Fidel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 16 hours ago, Commodore said: Colin Kaepernick and fellow leftists mourn leader of workers' paradise freedom-lovers rejoice a glorious day how trifling and small this commentary is. we are laughing at the pointlessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 13 minutes ago, sologdin said: how trifling and small this commentary is. we are laughing at the pointlessness. http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/649/096/75a.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 Quote I'm sure Trump didn't write it and unsure if he even believes it, but this sort of moral clarity is something we haven't seen from Western leaders in a long time. This sentence didn't make sense until I tried setting it to a laughter track, then it scanned better. Huzzah for the moral celery of an unknown correspondent somewhere in Trump Tower! Castro was responsible for a vast number of deaths, many of them brutal and pointless. But even the most excessive figures indicate he was responsible for far less deaths than George W. Bush or the Americans over Vietnam. But to be fair it was rather a hell of a lot more than Pinochet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 6 minutes ago, Werthead said: But to be fair it was rather a hell of a lot more than Pinochet. Evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 17 hours ago, Commodore said: Colin Kaepernick and fellow leftists mourn leader of workers' paradise freedom-lovers rejoice a glorious day Im a leftie (centre-left) and im glad he's dead. Please dont put all of us in the same box as guys like Trudeau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 1 minute ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: Evidence? Google, basically. The deaths attributed to Pinochet seem to be between 3,000 and 4,000, with a considerably larger number of people exiled. The figures for Castro are all over the place, but are rarely below 10,000. The highest figures are over 100,000, which seems extreme. The complicating factor is how many of those came from Castro's own direct order and how many were as a result of the civil war, which seems to be heavily disputed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Partner just informed me that as of right now, Quote " ... the sale of alcoholic beverages is suspended. don't know if it will last 9 days or not. except . . . in the tourist hotels, so i'm knocking back a cold bucanero." That seems harsh and unnecessary. I wonder what the reasoning behind this is. Listening to the BBC Castro Special that the NPR stations are broadcasting simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 The other complicating factor is that Castro didn't disappear people, and there is not one word about torture in Amnesty International's criticism of him: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/11/fidel-castro-s-human-rights-legacy-a-tale-of-two-worlds/ We all know the sort of tortures Pinochet's bunch got up to. I think if everyone in this thread had to choose between living in Castro's Cuba or Pinochet's Chile, with the possible exception of Commodore, I think everyone here would opt for the former - and that's not simply a matter of access to health care facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 37 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: The other complicating factor is that Castro didn't disappear people, and there is not one word about torture in Amnesty International's criticism of him: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/11/fidel-castro-s-human-rights-legacy-a-tale-of-two-worlds/ We all know the sort of tortures Pinochet's bunch got up to. I think if everyone in this thread had to choose between living in Castro's Cuba or Pinochet's Chile, with the possible exception of Commodore, I think everyone here would opt for the former - and that's not simply a matter of access to health care facilities. Doesn't that depend upon whether you were a landholder or priest in Cuba right after the Revolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Balstroko Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 I don't understand in the slightest how some people can praise Castro while sitting comfortably in western countries, using technology that only exists as a result of capitalism. It's easy to praise someone when you don't go through the daily struggles people do. I know a lot of tourists enjoy Cuba because it offers something that is unique, which is a result of the country being isolated. Unfortunately, to them Cuba is essentially a virtual museum. Leaders like Castro, Chavez/ Maduro, Kim use the pretext of standing up to imperialism to distract the international community from their domestic activities. It's especially ironic when you realise that Cuba largely runs on western infrastructure built during the Batista era. If you want to change the social order then you need to provide a competitive alternative, or else don't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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