Many questions about Dragon Eggs

[Rob Storm]

Been doing some thinking lately about Summerhall and the last few Targ kings.. It is said that while Aerys was King that he found dragon eggs on Dragonstone, some that had turned to stone like Danys, and attempted to hatch them.  I've also heard it speculated that 3 of these eggs are the ones Dany hatches. (Via Illyrio through Varys). I know 7 were used and presumably lost at Summerhall, were these the last 7 the Targ family had besides the stone ones found later and it was just convenient with the Faith?

Since Aerys had eggs after Summerhall, were Rhaegar or Viserys given eggs in their cradle like all previous princelings?  Dany and Viserys were blown away by the egg gift but their family had a large cache potentially in Viserys' lifetime.  I find it very odd that this time honored tradition of every Targ getting an egg ended within a generation, less than 50 years after Egg/Aegon 5 and all his brothers were given Eggs.  Did Aerys just mess up because he was a loony toon? I don't really think Viserys would have hatched an egg but if it is genetic he has the same genes as Dany.    

Aegon thought it was such normal thing to have an Egg at birth, I just want to know why this tradition didn't continue because it seems like they had the means.  If they were simply out of eggs after Summerhall I am sorry for wasting your time haha.  

[Lord Varys]

The fact that Egg still had a dragon egg suggests that the Targaryens must still have had quite a few dragon eggs in the days of Daeron II. We also know that one Quickfinger was supposed to still some dragon eggs during the First Blackfyre Rebellion.

What we don't know is whether a Targaryen kept the egg that was put into his or her cradle his or her entire life. If that was the case we would have to assume that there quite a few eggs in Targaryen possession around 209 AC, namely:

The egg of Daeron II himself, the eggs of his four sons (Baelor, Aerys, Rhaegel, and Maekar), the eggs of his grandchildren (Valarr, Matarys; Aelor & Aelora; Daeron, Aerion, Aemon, Daella, Aegon, and Rhae), as well as the egg of his cousin Elaena.

That would make sixteen dragon eggs in total. If Egg was the last child to get a dragon egg then it might only have been fifteen and Rhae wouldn't have gotten an egg.

We also know that the Targaryens had quite a few eggs left at many given times. There were still dragon eggs on Dragonstone when Rhaenyra left KL to return to her stronghold in an attempt to hatch them to win her throne back. We also know that Syrax had recently produced another clutch of eggs three of which were given to Lady Rhaena for safekeeping (and from her own she already had at that time the dragon Morning eventually hatched, leaving those three eggs unaccounted for). We also know the last dragon to die left five eggs which never hatched. We have no idea what happened to the dragon eggs of the children who held them during the Dance (the princes Maelor and Viserys).

Then we know that Targaryen kings like Aegon the Unworthy gave dragon eggs away as if they were trinkets of little value.

We also know there were many attempts to hatch dragon eggs, some of which might actually have destroyed the eggs in the process. There were the Nine Mages during the reign of Aegon III, Baelor praying over them, maesters studying them, and possibly other Targaryens administering sorcery to them themselves (Aerys I and Bloodraven easily enough could have done such things). And then there was Summerhall.

I'm pretty sure the seven eggs Aegon V tried to hatch there were either destroyed in the process or never recovered beneath the ruins of Harrenhal. Hell, they could even have hatched with the hatchlings then being devoured by the inferno (or slain by the collapsing palace).

In addition, we have to keep in mind that the Targaryens were facing a lot of challenges during those times, too. The Blackfyres might have succeeded in stealing some eggs during one of their rebellions (especially the Third) or during infiltrations between the rebellions. Such eggs might never have been recovered. Aegon V faced a lot of uprisings and rebellions during his reign which could have led to disappearance of other eggs. Some eggs could also have disappeared during the chaos following Maekar's death. One should keep in mind that they scarcity made them very sought after collector's items.

The fact that Aerys II searched and found dragon eggs on Dragonstone rather than working with his own egg, or his sister-wife's egg is evidence enough that Aegon V's grandchildren no longer had been given eggs. Of if they had been given eggs then Aegon V might have demanded them back to hatch them at Summerhall.

The seven dragon eggs used at Summerhall could have been the eggs of Aegon V, Jaehaerys, Shaera, Aerys, Rhaella, Rhaelle (if still alive), and the one destined to be given to Rhaella's unborn child (which could have been the one which originally belonged to Egg's youngest son, Prince Daeron). Prince Duncan would originally have had a dragon egg, too, but it is possible that he had to return his when he gave up his claim to the Iron Throne (then his egg could have gone to either Aerys or Rhaella). Maester Aemon also had an egg once, but he would have returned it to Aegon V when he decided to go to the Wall, enabling Egg to give it to one of his grandchildren. Or perhaps he even returned it to Aerys I when he completed his chain and first became a maester.

Princes Daeron and Aerion might also have given eggs to their children Vaella and Maegor - what happened to those is completely unclear since we don't know what happened to them. Those eggs could very well have disappeared with them, perhaps even including the eggs of their parents.

If Prince Maegor attended Summerhall and died there his egg could very well also have been one of the seven Egg tried to hatch. The same goes for Egg's sisters, Maegor's mother Princess Daenora, and Princess Vaella.

In general I'm pretty sure that Egg did not just try to hatch some eggs but rather the eggs of the people present at Summerhall.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I kinda like the idea that Aemon's is at the wall; somewhere in his chambers,and that it's just sat there minding it's own business. Probably a bit dusty, behind a stack of books or under some robes. And if anyone cared to go clean his room they'd find it.  I find the idea of Clydas saying what the fuck is this thing, then tossing it into a corner amusing. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

On a less humerous note. I think Dany's eggs are Targ eggs. Either snook out of KL by Varys, or ones which his or illyrio's branch of the family had possession of. 

The idea of them owning their own eggs though, and keeping them throughout their years of poverty and in Vary's & serra's case slavery is a bit far fetched though so I think more likely stolen from KL by Varys. 

[Lord Varys]

15 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

I kinda like the idea that Aemon's is at the wall; somewhere in his chambers,and that it's just sat there minding it's own business. Probably a bit dusty, behind a stack of books or under some robes. And if anyone cared to go clean his room they'd find it.  I find the idea of Clydas saying what the fuck is this thing, then tossing it into a corner amusing. 

That doesn't make a lot of sense. Keep in mind that bastards were never entitled to have eggs (e.g. Viserys I putting an end to Daemon's idea of giving a dragon egg to his child by Mysaria) and while Aemon wasn't a bastard he gave up all his claims to the Iron Throne when he became a maester (and then even doubled that by also joining the Night's Watch).

He probably returned his egg once he completed his chain. Or, even more likely, it remained at Summerhall or KL when Daeron II sent him to the citadel in the first place (it wouldn't have been exactly safe in the cell of some novice/acolyte) and was never recovered by Aemon, and eventually passed on to one of Egg's children.

The idea that Aegon V would allow his brother to take such a valuable item to the Wall makes no sense at all. The same goes for Bloodraven taking Dark Sister to the Wall. It would have been just silly.

16 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

On a less humerous note. I think Dany's eggs are Targ eggs. Either snook out of KL by Varys, or ones which his or illyrio's branch of the family had possession of. 

That has been effectively confirmed by TWoIaF. The whole thing about those petrified dragon eggs Aerys II found on Dragonstone wasn't in there just for window dressing. Nobody ever thought Aerys II still had dragon eggs but the fact that he had multiple raises the question what the hell happened to them. Robert, Joffrey, and Tommen don't have any dragon eggs. Viserys III didn't have any dragons. Where did the eggs Aerys II had in his castle go after the Sack?

The answer is pretty easy: Varys stole them and gave them to Illyrio who gave three of them to Dany while possibly keeping even more of them to give to Aegon in one of those chests he brought them in ADwD.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Yes I totally agree, I really do think Dany's eggs are the ones Aerys found. 

 

I was only jesting re Aemon. I just find the thought of an egg sitting long forgotton covered in dust up at the wall highly amusing 

[Shuvuuia]

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

 

The egg of Daeron II himself, the eggs of his four sons (Baelor, Aerys, Rhaegel, and Maekar), the eggs of his grandchildren (Valarr, Matarys; Aelor & Aelora; Daeron, Aerion, Aemon, Daella, Aegon, and Rhae), as well as the egg of his cousin Elaena.

 

Did you forget Daenora or was there something about not having enough eggs for her? (although they could've given her Baelor's or Valarr/Matarys's, if she was born later).

I wonder if there was an egg hierarchy - could they give Daeron II's egg to newly born Daenora, or would it have to wait for Aerys's or Aelor's son?

[Lord Varys]

18 minutes ago, Shuvuuia said:

Did you forget Daenora or was there something about not having enough eggs for her? (although they could've given her Baelor's or Valarr/Matarys's, if she was born later).

I wonder if there was an egg hierarchy - could they give Daeron II's egg to newly born Daenora, or would it have to wait for Aerys's or Aelor's son?

How should I know?

One could assume that back in the days the dragons yet lived that the Targaryens usually gave fresh dragon eggs to their children rather than hoping that eggs laying around for years or decades would suddenly hatch when given to their children. Rhaenyra's sons (and Daemon's daughters by Laena) all seem to have been produced by Syrax who produced at least two clutches during the reign of Viserys I.

Earlier on we know that Prince Aenys was given a recently hatched hatchling, not a dragon egg at all.

Thus I'd assume that Aegon III's children as well as Viserys II's would have been given the remaining eggs produced by Syrax (Aegon, Aemon, and Naerys could all have been given the three Rhaena took care of during the Dance). Daeron I, Baelor I, Daena, Rhaena, and Elaena might have been given eggs produced by Morning or another dragon who hatched during the reign of Aegon III - we don't know how many dragons hatched in that period.

And the two last she-dragons who hatched on Dragonstone later in the reign of Aegon III might actually have been dragons hatched from the eggs of one of the elder children - perhaps from the eggs of Daeron I and Baelor I or from the children of Viserys II.

Assuming they lost some eggs along the line they could have decided later on to recycle the eggs after the deaths of the older Targaryens instead of bestowing even older eggs on the next generation.

But aside from that I've no idea, really. I very much doubt that dragon eggs were ordered in some sort of hierarchy. Perhaps they did not put all that much hope on eggs produced by twisted and crippled dragons.

I did not include Daenora up there because she seems to have been born after 209 AC and could thus have been given the egg of Daeron II, Baelor's, or those of Valarr and Matarys. Vaella could have gotten the egg of Aerys I, Maegor the egg of Aelor or Aelora, and so forth.

[Shuvuuia]

19 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

How should I know?

 

i thought there could be something from the world book that i don't remember, sorry if i worded it in a wrong way.

19 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

I did not include Daenora up there because she seems to have been born after 209 AC and could thus have been given the egg of Daeron II, Baelor's, or those of Valarr and Matarys. Vaella could have gotten the egg of Aerys I, Maegor the egg of Aelor or Aelora, and so forth.

yes, i see it now.

[Lord Varys]

4 minutes ago, Shuvuuia said:

i thought there could be something from the world book that i don't remember, sorry if i worded it in a wrong way.

Don't take the wording the wrong way. It was supposed to be funny. We are in complete crackpot speculation territory here and sometimes I realize that when writing long paragraphs about stuff like that ;-).

Technically it is also possible that cadet branches of the Targaryens took their eggs with them. They had become priced possessions by that time rather than potential weapons of war. Rhae and Daella could have handed down theirs to their children, Vaella and Maegor/Daenora could have taken theirs to wherever they ended up, and so forth.

Elaena's egg could still be in the possession of House Plumm or House Penrose to this day.

Thus it is easily imaginable that Egg had a lot less dragon eggs than were around in the days of his grandfather.

And speaking about that - I forget the egg of Princess Daenerys which could have ended up in the possession of House Martell. Although nothing suggests that they still retain it if they ever had it. Back then Daeron II might have demanded that his sister return the egg before she left for Dorne.

[Kienn]

What's the quote for Aerys II finding petrified eggs?

 

I thought it was pretty clear none of the eggs were ever petrified.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Quote

In the wake of Duskendale, the king also began to display signs of an ever-increasing obsession with dragonfire, similar to that which had haunted several of his forebears. Lord Darklyn would never have dared defy him if he had been a dragonrider, Aerys reasoned. His attempts to bring forth dragons from eggsfound in the depths of Dragonstone (some so old that they had turned to stone) yielded naught, however.

The World of Ice & Fire, the chapter on Aerys II. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

5 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

I kinda like the idea that Aemon's is at the wall; somewhere in his chambers,and that it's just sat there minding it's own business. Probably a bit dusty, behind a stack of books or under some robes. And if anyone cared to go clean his room they'd find it.  I find the idea of Clydas saying what the fuck is this thing, then tossing it into a corner amusing. 

Like Longclaw

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

That doesn't make a lot of sense. Keep in mind that bastards were never entitled to have eggs (e.g. Viserys I putting an end to Daemon's idea of giving a dragon egg to his child by Mysaria) and while Aemon wasn't a bastard he gave up all his claims to the Iron Throne when he became a maester (and then even doubled that by also joining the Night's Watch).

He probably returned his egg once he completed his chain. Or, even more likely, it remained at Summerhall or KL when Daeron II sent him to the citadel in the first place (it wouldn't have been exactly safe in the cell of some novice/acolyte) and was never recovered by Aemon, and eventually passed on to one of Egg's children.

The idea that Aegon V would allow his brother to take such a valuable item to the Wall makes no sense at all. The same goes for Bloodraven taking Dark Sister to the Wall. It would have been just silly.

That has been effectively confirmed by TWoIaF. The whole thing about those petrified dragon eggs Aerys II found on Dragonstone wasn't in there just for window dressing. Nobody ever thought Aerys II still had dragon eggs but the fact that he had multiple raises the question what the hell happened to them. Robert, Joffrey, and Tommen don't have any dragon eggs. Viserys III didn't have any dragons. Where did the eggs Aerys II had in his castle go after the Sack?

The answer is pretty easy: Varys stole them and gave them to Illyrio who gave three of them to Dany while possibly keeping even more of them to give to Aegon in one of those chests he brought them in ADwD.

Where do you think Darksister is? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

That doesn't make a lot of sense. Keep in mind that bastards were never entitled to have eggs (e.g. Viserys I putting an end to Daemon's idea of giving a dragon egg to his child by Mysaria) and while Aemon wasn't a bastard he gave up all his claims to the Iron Throne when he became a maester (and then even doubled that by also joining the Night's Watch).

He probably returned his egg once he completed his chain. Or, even more likely, it remained at Summerhall or KL when Daeron II sent him to the citadel in the first place (it wouldn't have been exactly safe in the cell of some novice/acolyte) and was never recovered by Aemon, and eventually passed on to one of Egg's children.

The idea that Aegon V would allow his brother to take such a valuable item to the Wall makes no sense at all. The same goes for Bloodraven taking Dark Sister to the Wall. It would have been just silly.

That has been effectively confirmed by TWoIaF. The whole thing about those petrified dragon eggs Aerys II found on Dragonstone wasn't in there just for window dressing. Nobody ever thought Aerys II still had dragon eggs but the fact that he had multiple raises the question what the hell happened to them. Robert, Joffrey, and Tommen don't have any dragon eggs. Viserys III didn't have any dragons. Where did the eggs Aerys II had in his castle go after the Sack?

The answer is pretty easy: Varys stole them and gave them to Illyrio who gave three of them to Dany while possibly keeping even more of them to give to Aegon in one of those chests he brought them in ADwD.

Couldn't Robert have sold them to finance the crown's increasing debt? 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

22 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Like Longclaw

Exactly! lol. Imagine if in the recesses of Aemons chambers darksister is sat behind a drape; where Bryndon casually stuck it and said, hey Aemon just keep an eye on that for me will ya. And there is a Dragon Egg that rolled under his bed 35 years ago and is just sat there covered in dust, next to a mouldy plate of stew, and a pair of smelly socks. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, Shuvuuia said:

Did you forget Daenora or was there something about not having enough eggs for her? (although they could've given her Baelor's or Valarr/Matarys's, if she was born later).

I wonder if there was an egg hierarchy - could they give Daeron II's egg to newly born Daenora, or would it have to wait for Aerys's or Aelor's son?

Yes... Cage-free, Grade AA for Kings and heirs apparent, Grade A for the immediate family, and Grade B for cousins. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

36 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Exactly! lol. Imagine if in the recesses of Aemons chambers darksister is sat behind a drape; where Bryndon casually stuck it and said, hey Aemon just keep an eye on that for me will ya. And there is a Dragon Egg that rolled under his bed 35 years ago and is just sat there covered in dust, next to a mouldy plate of stew, and a pair of smelly socks. 

I see what you did there!

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

 

[Lord Varys]

56 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Where do you think Darksister is? 

Neither with Bloodraven nor at the Wall. That's just a silly idea, especially if the Targaryens ever regained Blackfyre. Dark Sister was their last Valyrian heirloom and Aegon V would have to be an utter moron to allow Bloodraven to keep it.

56 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Couldn't Robert have sold them to finance the crown's increasing debt? 

Unlikely, considering that he still has the dragon skulls (presumably those would have made a decent price as well). In addition, the Crown was only indebted in the last couple of years (Robert inherited a full treasury he first had to spend) and there is no indication that the administration and the king are actually giving the debt much thought.

If Robert had already begun selling 'the crown jewels' so to speak, one should assume that the day where you could win tens of thousands of gold dragon at a tourney would have been over. But they clearly aren't over when the series begins.

In addition, we most likely would have heard if there had been dragon eggs around for Robert to sell. After all, the Lannisters most likely would have bought them.