Lord Friendzone

Speculations, news, theories for season 7. (includes leaks )

2,890 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

A war sgainst the white walkers. Cannot leave her at your back.

All the more reason to get Cersei on their side. Besides, even if Cersei sends the Lannister army after them, they won't have King's Landing's walls to protect them. An open field battle would put Dany and Jon at an advantage, having the larger army. Plus, Dany will be able to use her dragons without the risk of collateral damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt they would have killed her, I think she would have gotten the Loras treatment. Which still is very awful.

But  she could have sent Gregor to pick them off one by one.

BTW how strong are those sparrows anyway? There were enough noble men present who, presumably have better diets and better training than a bunch of malnourished fanatics in burlap sacks. Even supposing they banned any nobles from carrying weapons in the Sept, they should have been able to beat them up or push them aside and get free. Maybe not Magaery or Loras (who would have been damaged from his long incarceration, but the stronger men present definitely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

All the more reason to get Cersei on their side. Besides, even if Cersei sends the Lannister army after them, they won't have King's Landing's walls to protect them. An open field battle would put Dany and Jon at an advantage, having the larger army. Plus, Dany will be able to use her dragons without the risk of collateral damage.

And Cersei double crossing someone who is counting on them in order to let them get ground down by the other is what they should expect from Cersei. Negotiations with her should be demanding Unconditional Surrender and she and her troops will be spared. They can also make it known to all Lannister soldiers that they are to simply walk out of King's Landing and lie down their weapons or they will all burn and be eaten. Those soldiers are not going to be burned and eaten for Incest Cersei. However, I am pretty sure this will play out as to make Cersei look like she has more leverage than she actually should or has. IE, stupid.

Edited by A Ghost of Someone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to say it because Jon is my fav character but he is dumb. He is portrayed that way even after his stabbing betrayel he is made to be dumb. It pisses me off but that's how it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come to think of it even Margaery could have at least kicked the sparrow who blocked her way in the balls. Might not have gotten her completely outside, but would have been worth a shot.

The whole downfall of the Tyrells in the show simply relied on far too many people conveniently forgetting stuff or failing to do stuff.

1) Olenna, Margaery and Loras conveniently forget that someone who squired for Loras would know about the birthmark because he'd be required to help him in and out of his armour.

Edit: 1.5) Also the weird circumstance that Loras, the heir to Highgarden would have some nobody squire for him instead of the son of one of the Tyrell's banner men.

2)Margaery conveniently decides to go to the Sept on her own, rather than with Tommen. Even if she was mad at him, appearances and decorum would have required them to rock up together. 

3) The High Sparrow conveniently fails to have Cersei escorted to the trial (you'd think that might be important to him)

4)Everybody conveniently fails to notice that Cersei and Tommen are present until Margaery points it out. 

5) And finally a whole Sept full of people can be hindered from leaving by a circle of (not very burly looking) guys holding hands.

....what?

Edited by Orphalesion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, maudisdottir said:

As usual, there are a lot of cries of "dumb!" and "plot hole!" when nobody has actually seen any of this and are basing it all on spoilers.  And people seem to have no problem adding their own details that didn't appear in the original leaks and deciding that they're "dumb!" "plot holes!" as well.  How can you claim something is a plot hole when you don't know the actual plot?

The alliance with Cersei might also be based more on "don't fight against us" than "fight with us". If Cersei is still an enemy she could decide to attack them while they're trying to fight the WWs. At least if they neutralise her with a "treaty" they don't have to worry about fighting a war on two fronts.

But why does Cersei have an army at all? Why do the Lannister men still follow her? Why does anyone follow her outside of Gregor and Qyburn? She would be Queen of a lawless KL as everyone tries to escape the mad bomber, so the premise that she needs to be treated with is flawed from the start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, TheCasualObserver said:

But why does Cersei have an army at all? Why do the Lannister men still follow her? Why does anyone follow her outside of Gregor and Qyburn? She would be Queen of a lawless KL as everyone tries to escape the mad bomber, so the premise that she needs to be treated with is flawed from the start.

Exactly.  She killed her uncle and her cousin and former lover. Not to mention the High Sparrow, the popular Tyrell queen, and blew up the most holy site in Westeros.  If she will kill members of her own family, and do all the rest of it......why would any Lannister bannermen follow her?  You'd be instead looking at Kevan's remaining children or what other Lannisters are left alive to try and neutralize her, lock her in the attic and restore some order and prestige to House Lannister.

The fact that Jon, with a Vale army, an army of wildlings, and Dany, with a Dorne army, a Dothraki army, an unsullied army, a huge navy, and 3 dragons would do anything but tell her to sit down and STFU and release your "army" to us is more nonsense.

Edited by Cas Stark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Exactly.  She killed her uncle and her cousin and former lover. Not to mention the High Sparrow, the popular Tyrell queen, and blew up the most holy site in Westeros.  If she will kill members of her own family, and do all the rest of it......why would any Lannister bannermen follow her?  You'd be instead looking at Kevan's remaining children or what other Lannisters are left alive to try and neutralize her, lock her in the attic and restore some order and prestige to House Lannister.

The fact that Jon, with a Vale army, an army of wildlings, and Dany, with a Dorne army, a Dothraki army, an unsullied army, a huge navy, and 3 dragons would do anything but tell her to sit down and STFU and release your "army" to us is more nonsense.

It should really be a case of Dany showing up at the city with her white hair and dragon and waiting for everyone to turf Cersei out. After the total failure of the Baratheon line, a living Targ complete with dragon should be enough to make everyone bend the knee. 

My issue with some of the arguments on this thread are simple - wherein lies the point in debating how sensible a wight hunt to get Cersei's help is if the premise that Cersei can even provide help is flawed? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly again. If Cersei hadn't killed the Tyrell heirs, then there might be a reasonable basis that House Tyrell and it's once huge army, LOL, plus the Lannisters would try to fight her....but having killed and betrayed now every single past ally....everyone in Westeros would be laying flowers at Dany's feet as their savior.  It doesn't matter really, though, and as I said in an earlier post, it's possible the book readers have been wrong, perhaps after losing everything she holds dear Cersei will somehow stay alive at the end, this would explain some of the show's weirder choices about Cersei and Jamie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Exactly.  She killed her uncle and her cousin and former lover. Not to mention the High Sparrow, the popular Tyrell queen, and blew up the most holy site in Westeros.  If she will kill members of her own family, and do all the rest of it......why would any Lannister bannermen follow her?  You'd be instead looking at Kevan's remaining children or what other Lannisters are left alive to try and neutralize her, lock her in the attic and restore some order and prestige to House Lannister.

The fact that Jon, with a Vale army, an army of wildlings, and Dany, with a Dorne army, a Dothraki army, an unsullied army, a huge navy, and 3 dragons would do anything but tell her to sit down and STFU and release your "army" to us is more nonsense.

If only the leaks explained why...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"That's what so much of next season is going to be about; finding out what Cersei's mindset is. Who is she? While Cersei has certainly done a lot of horrible things in her life and she could be a very cruel person, the one thing that was redemptive about her was that she genuinely loved her children. Now they're all gone, and I think that is very interesting for us. Who is she without her children? The answer is something you'll find out next season." 

According to Weis.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TheCasualObserver said:

But why does Cersei have an army at all? Why do the Lannister men still follow her? Why does anyone follow her outside of Gregor and Qyburn? She would be Queen of a lawless KL as everyone tries to escape the mad bomber, so the premise that she needs to be treated with is flawed from the start.

I dunno, maybe if you wait and watch the actual show instead of trying to predict (and tear to shreds) what you THINK is going to happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

"That's what so much of next season is going to be about; finding out what Cersei's mindset is. Who is she? While Cersei has certainly done a lot of horrible things in her life and she could be a very cruel person, the one thing that was redemptive about her was that she genuinely loved her children. Now they're all gone, and I think that is very interesting for us. Who is she without her children? The answer is something you'll find out next season." 

According to Weis.  

and she gets pregnant.....why????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, maudisdottir said:

I dunno, maybe if you wait and watch the actual show instead of trying to predict (and tear to shreds) what you THINK is going to happen.

The point of this thread is to discuss the leaks... that's what I'm doing. The show is apparently going to present Cersei as the Queen of the Seven kingdoms in reality as well as her own head, and I'm questioning how that could even be possible for a person in her position. 

Edited by TheCasualObserver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

"That's what so much of next season is going to be about; finding out what Cersei's mindset is. Who is she? While Cersei has certainly done a lot of horrible things in her life and she could be a very cruel person, the one thing that was redemptive about her was that she genuinely loved her children. Now they're all gone, and I think that is very interesting for us. Who is she without her children? The answer is something you'll find out next season." 

According to Weis.  

Can't they just kill her and be done with it...? This is getting tiresome. And NotBookJaime grovelling at her feet is getting tiresome too.

 

This feels like an artificial prolonging of Cersei arc to promote Lena Headey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The show has already overly explored Cersei Lannister and everything about her. WHO CARES? She is as she has been since Season 1, the biggest villain in Westeros South of the Wall. Root the bitch out of her keep, kill her and be done with it FFS! She should have no army, no followers. Hell, Stannis lost half of his army for burning his own daughter on the advice of a Priestess, Cersie (because she was going to lose a trial and everyone knows she was/is guilty of just about all charges) blew up the equivalent of MECCA, St Peters and the Shrine of Budha with half of her own kin in it and her supporters and Army grows?

Edited by A Ghost of Someone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

The show has already overly explored Cersei Lannister and everything about her. WHO CARES? She is as she has been since Season 1, the biggest villain in Westeros South of the Wall. Root the bitch out of her keep, kill her and be done with it FFS! She should have no army, no followers. Hell, Stannis lost half of his army for burning his own daughter on the advice of a Priestess, Cersie (because she was going to lose a trial and everyone knows she was/is guilty of just about all charges) blew up the equivalent of MECCA, St Peters and the Shrine of Budha with half of her own kin in it and her supporters and Army grows?

Stannis only lost his sellsword army after he burned Shireen. The men who have been with him from the very beginning and served him out of duty remained loyal. As for who cares about Cersei, I do, for one. To me, she is by far the most compelling human antagonist and I'm looking forward to her scenes next season. During the entire series, the Lannister army has always been loyal. They've followed every order that Cersei has given them without question, so them remaining loyal is consistent with how the show has portrayed them. And I don't know what you're getting so worked up about. Cersei's still alive and kicking in the books as well, and it's clear she has a much bigger role to play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, TheCasualObserver said:

The point of this thread is to discuss the leaks... that's what I'm doing. The show is apparently going to present Cersei as the Queen of the Seven kingdoms in reality as well as her own head, and I'm questioning how that could even be possible for a person in her position. 

But that's not what's happening a lot of the time. I'm not just directing it at you, but in general the loudest voices on here are the ones bitching about how stupid everything is when WE DON'T KNOW. The quality of the story is being judged when nobody has even seen it, and all we have is a scant outline. People aren't just speculating how Cersei First of Her Name could be possible, they're shouting that it's absolutely impossible, and therefore everything sucks and D&D are the debbil.  But it could be possible, and I've seen plenty of reasonable explanations here and on the old leaks thread. So in the end, much of the "speculation" turns into filling in the blanks (because there are a ton - scant outline, see above) and then ripping to shreds what they have speculated as if it's fact.

It's frustrating to see so much bitching and moaning about a show that NOBODY HAS SEEN YET. I'm glad I wasn't here prior to season 6 for the leaks or no doubt I would have had to listen to how cheesy the BotB sounded and how impossible it would be for Jon to be crowned KitN. And yet both were fucking awesome. IMO of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, maudisdottir said:

But that's not what's happening a lot of the time. I'm not just directing it at you, but in general the loudest voices on here are the ones bitching about how stupid everything is when WE DON'T KNOW. (...)

It's frustrating to see so much bitching and moaning about a show that NOBODY HAS SEEN YET. I'm glad I wasn't here prior to season 6 for the leaks or no doubt I would have had to listen to how cheesy the BotB sounded and how impossible it would be for Jon to be crowned KitN. And yet both were fucking awesome. IMO of course.

This thread is called "Speculation, news, theories..." and that's what people do: speculate and theorize how cheesy or how awesome it's going to be. You, by referencing Jon's KITN scene, implicitly theorize that the story will probably just as awesome.

Btw., I politely disagree. Jon's coronation, for me, was bad because he did not earn it. (For plausibility/ in-story reasons, not because I dislike Jon). I don't remember whether this was already stated in season 6 speculation threads or not, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

Stannis only lost his sellsword army after he burned Shireen. The men who have been with him from the very beginning and served him out of duty remained loyal. As for who cares about Cersei, I do, for one. To me, she is by far the most compelling human antagonist and I'm looking forward to her scenes next season. During the entire series, the Lannister army has always been loyal. They've followed every order that Cersei has given them without question, so them remaining loyal is consistent with how the show has portrayed them. And I don't know what you're getting so worked up about. Cersei's still alive and kicking in the books as well, and it's clear she has a much bigger role to play.

Stannis lost half of his army and all of the horses, except for the one that Mel apparently keeps in her tent for reasons that may not be suitable for discussion for all we know.

Compelling, I see her as a psychopath, a curse, a plague. Disagree we do.

Edited by A Ghost of Someone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now