Lord Friendzone

Speculations, news, theories for season 7. (includes leaks )

1,499 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

no one is excusing it. They are both guilty of it in their own way. That is only part of their faults. My point is that beyond their mutual confrontations, her crimes run much deeper and have harmed multitudes of people because of it, in protecting her lies etc. I am thinking about all of the murders, rapes that have happened across Westeros (Her Dad's military strategy) men fighting and dying because of what she did. That is on her and her Twincest Treason. Ripple effect if you will and because of her calculated plan regarding her babies, how many people died and continue because of it? That is my point.

So Robert beating Cersei was him avenging all the people her father hurt, is that it? Or was it Melara he was avenging? 

Look, I get your point, but these are apples and oranges. Cersei being crazy has no correlation with Cersei deserving to be in an abusive marriage. Yes, Cersei hit him too once, but a woman whose never worked a day in her life is really not gonna do too much damage to one of the strongest warriors in the nation. But when Robert slaps her, her face swells up and turns purple. 

Cersei deserves to be executed for her crimes, not raped and beaten by her husband. 

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2 hours ago, dsug said:

And as I have said multiple times, no Robert did not kill those children. But his blood is still on their hands. He rewarded Tywin and defended the decision to do it. And no, "the Robert of old" would still have killed those kids if Tywin beat him to it, as they were threats to his throne, and Targaryens. If you think Robert would have given the children a slap on the wrist  and let them live happily ever after, we fundamentally disagree. 

And yes, Robert did kill Rhaegar. Your insistence that this is "factually incorrect" baffles me. Targ supporters, who still existed well after the Rebellion (Varys), would most definitely see this as murder. And if my choice of words is what is triggering you so much, maybe take your own advice and stop mincing words when you're proven wrong. 

I'm not the one mincing words here. Your initial post states that Robert blatantly organized the slaughter of Elia and her kids. When subsequent posters pointed to the factual inaccuracy of this statement (as Robert had no prior knowledge of Tywin's plans), you changed your statement to "but his blood is still on their hands" or whatever nonsense. BTW the correct phrase is "their blood is on his hands".  As to your current version, I totally disagree with it as well. The Robert of old would not have killed Elia and her kids as he did not have the stomach or desire to do so, and more importantly Ned and Jon Aryn would not let him do it. You forget Ned was the first one among the rebel leaders (Tywin was not part of the rebels) to arrive in KL and he would have protected Elia and the kids had they been alive.  Robert would not have gone to war with Ned to kill Elia and her kids. So your entire argument is baseless. Like I said before, I don't believe you've read the books and your arguments appear to be based on the show, but even in the show never do they say that Robert had any responsibility for the death of Elia and her kids. Show Oberyn is out for revenge against Tywin and the Lannisters not Robert. 

As to the killing of Rhaegar, please look up the definition of murder. Murder as a noun is defined as "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another." Neither was Rhaegar's killing premeditated nor was it unlawful either by Westerosi standards or our modern day standards. Robert killed Rhaegar in battle fair and square and even Targ supporters would not call that murder. I don't believe any Targ loyalist in the text refers to Robert as murdering Rhaegar. He is called usurper (mostly by Dany) but not a murderer. In fact, there's the statement from Jorah, where he states Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably, and Rhaegar died.  Jorah doesn't say Rhaegar was murdered, and Barristan and Dany who hears this does not correct Jorah and say, no Rhaegar was murdered. So PLEASE, stop assuming what is not in the text (or the show for that matter since most of your assumptions are based on the show) and making statements that are factually incorrect. 

Edited by teej6

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8 minutes ago, teej6 said:

I'm not the one mincing words here. Your initial post states that Robert blatantly organized the slaughter of Elia and her kids. When subsequent posters pointed to the factual inaccuracy of this statement (as Robert had no prior knowledge of Tywin's plans), you changed your statement to "but his blood is still on their hands" or whatever nonsense. BTW the correct phrase is "their blood is on his hands".  As to your current version, I totally disagree with it as well. The Robert of old would not have killed Elia and her kids as he did not have the stomach or desire to do so, and more importantly Ned and Jon Aryn would not let him do it. You forget Ned was the first one among the rebel leaders (Tywin was not part of the rebels) to arrive in KL and he would have protected Elia and the kids.  Robert would not have gone to war with Ned to kill Elia and her kids. So your entire argument is baseless. Like I said before, I don't believe you've read the books and your arguments appear to be based on the show, but even in the show never do they say that Robert had any responsibility for the death of Elia and her kids. Show Oberyn is out for revenge against Tywin and the Lannisters. 

As to the killing of Rhaegar, please look up the definition of murder. Murder as a noun is defined as "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another." Neither was Rhaegar's killing premeditated nor was it unlawful either by Westerosi standards or our modern day standards. Robert killed Rhaegar in battle fair and square and even Targ supporters would not call that murder. I don't believe any Targ loyalist in the text refers to Robert as murdering Rhaegar. He is called usurper (mostly by Dany) but not a murderer. In fact, there's the statement from Jorah, where he states Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably, and Rhaegar died.  Jonah doesn't say Rhaegar was murdered, and Barristan and Dany who hears this does not correct Jorah and say, no Rhaegar was murdered. So PLEASE, stop assuming what is not in the text (or the show for that matter since most of your assumptions are based on the show) and making statements that are factually incorrect. 

Who's Jonah lol? Since we're sinking to pointing out spelling and grammar errors, apparently....

Your fixation on me is getting tiresome. As I've told you multiple times, BLOCK ME. I'm not going anywhere. If you feel the need to make conspiracy theories about whether or not a stranger on the internet has read a series of books or not, I feel sorry for you. But not enough to continue this pointless debate. 

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56 minutes ago, dsug said:

Who's Jonah lol? Since we're sinking to pointing out spelling and grammar errors, apparently....

Your fixation on me is getting tiresome. As I've told you multiple times, BLOCK ME. I'm not going anywhere. If you feel the need to make conspiracy theories about whether or not a stranger on the internet has read a series of books or not, I feel sorry for you. But not enough to continue this pointless debate. 

I was referring to an incorrectly stated phrase not spelling or grammar mistakes, which all of us make. And if responding to your factually incorrect posts translate to "Your fixation on me is getting tiresome", then I don't understand why you are on this thread debating. I don't understand what conspiracy theories I've made, I just said that your assumptions are based on the show and you made many factually incorrect statements regarding the text, to which I assumed that you have not read the books. So if I'm incorrect in my assumption, I apologize. 

Edited by teej6

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4 hours ago, teej6 said:

If IIRC, in the books I don't believe Robert admits to Ned that he's hit Cersei. Ned witnesses it first hand once, after which Robert states something like "you see what she does to me Ned", and "I should not have hit her, it was not kingly", or something to that effect. I don't believe we have any other instance of Robert and Ned every having a conversation about hitting Cersei. All the other instances where Robert is being accused of abuse (beating or raping Cersei) come from Cersei's own mouth and her recollections in her POV. My point was that Cersei is the sole source of the other instances of abuse by Robert and we can't rely on her words or inner thoughts to be true as she's proven to be a lying delusional narcissist, who plays the victim card often when it suits her.  

agree with Cersei lying, she does it all the time. Robert never does that we see or retro prove that he has but no, not good that there is abuse like that in any relationship. Their marriage was toxic as hell but she was so politically and financially connected, unless the treason came out like maybe Varys, Renly and the Tyrells were aiming for, Cersei was not going anywhere and Robert was saddled with her whether he liked it or not. Cersei, unless or until was proven unfaithful, had him essentially by the Balls.

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13 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

agree with Cersei lying, she does it all the time. Robert never does that we see or retro prove that he has but no, not good that there is abuse like that in any relationship. Their marriage was toxic as hell but she was so politically and financially connected, unless the treason came out like maybe Varys, Renly and the Tyrells were aiming for, Cersei was not going anywhere and Robert was saddled with her whether he liked it or not. Cersei, unless or until was proven unfaithful, had him essentially by the Balls.

The relationship was toxic for sure. Now we can speculate whether Robert would have been a better husband if he had married Lyanna or whether Cersei would have been a better wife if she had married Rhaegar. But we know that Robert was womanizing long before he married Cersei and Cersei was committing incest with her twin from very early on. So would they have stopped and been faithful had Robert married Lyanna, and Cersei married Rhaegar? We can never tell. But Cersei (in the books) is shown to be a treacherous and vile person from a very early age and I don't believe that Rhaegar or any other person would have been able to change that.  Robert on the other hand may have been a better king (if not husband) if he hadn't married Cersei. 

Edited by teej6

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49 minutes ago, teej6 said:

The relationship was toxic for sure. Now we can speculate whether Robert would have been a better husband if he had married Lyanna or whether Cersei would have been a better wife if she had married Rhaegar. But we know that Robert was womanizing long before he married Cersei and Cersei was committing incest with her twin from very early on. So would they have stopped and been faithful had Robert married Lyanna, and Cersei married Rhaegar? We can never tell. But Cersei (in the books) is shown to be a treacherous and vile person from a very early age and I don't believe that Rhaegar or any other person would have been able to change that.  Robert on the other hand may have been a better king (if not husband) if he hadn't married Cersei. 

Robert was not the best role model as far as personal behavior, alcoholic and constant womanizing. I would have reflected on him  better if he was more or less, had one special lady that he loved but could not marry and had some kids that there was some affection with instead of screwing anything that moved and was female and then abandoning his kids as if they did not exist. That to me is the worst of the personal things he did, abandon his kids all over the place.

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2 hours ago, teej6 said:

Finally, something to look forward to. 

Yep, I agree with that. Direwolves are welcome

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6 hours ago, teej6 said:

Finally, something to look forward to. 

I am surprised and glad there will some interaction with the Starks and their Direwolves. I sure hope they do not have Bronn kill this one off.

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I have to be very delicate with all of this… But with Season 7 largely wrapped, know that plenty more theories have been very, very wrong. To listen to these theories for this season, you just have to try to keep your face straight, and sometimes it’s so ludicrous that I just burst out laughing.

 

 

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

One of only two possible reasons I would watch this show anymore  :wub:

what is the second reason? :P

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6 minutes ago, Cridefea said:

what is the second reason? :P

If they do Gendry any actual honest service at all... but after the last three seasons, I'm not counting on it :P

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13 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

If they do Gendry any actual honest service at all... but after the last three seasons, I'm not counting on it :P

I'm optimistic about him! I'm sure he has to do something more important then row ....

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I hope Melisandre comes back in a big way season eight. I could see her coming back when Jon is on the verge of death or something, and saves him, giving her life in the process. 

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4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

If they do Gendry any actual honest service at all... but after the last three seasons, I'm not counting on it :P

Gendry's been away from all that stuff......B):P

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