Lord Friendzone

Speculations, news, theories for season 7. (includes leaks )

3,037 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Newstar said:

That comparison really doesn't hold up. FrikiDoctor had identified himself by name, making him easy to find and threaten, and had his own Youtube channel. It was pretty easy to shut that channel down by claiming copyright infringement, a claim Youtube happily enforced, and to threaten legal action against FrikiDoctor.

The big leaks this season have come from an anonymous Redditor. No real name, no way to find them and harass them, and no way to force the board to censor or delete the comments, which is why leakers are drawn to /Freefolk in the first place.. The production is also caught in the double bind of letting the leaks continue or bringing the hammer down on the leaks and thereby confirming them. 

The bottom line is that no matter what security protocols they implement, there's absolutely no way for the production to prevent someone like Awayforthelads from getting an anonymous Reddit account and leaking whatever they want to leak. They might be able to identify and punish the leaker after the fact, but by that point the damage would be done.

The only restraint on Reddit leakers is the fear of getting caught, and they're clearly getting bolder if Awayforthelads is any indication. Besides, with Season 8 being the last season (and therefore no fear of not getting hired back for future seasons), they might be even more emboldened.

You sort of make it sound as if it will be D&D's fault if there are leaks for Season 8, and if there are leaks it will be because D&D "don't care enough" to prevent them, and I don't think that's fair. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, there's only so much they can do to prevent leaks in general, and even with the most impeccable security protocols in place, there's absolutely nothing they can do to prevent an Awayforthelads-type leak, where someone takes out an anonymous Reddit account and starts leaking. 

I think the spoilery photographer shots for Season 7 were taken not with drones but with really good cameras, which is how we got shots of Jon and Dany's scenes in the Basque region that were taken hundreds of yards away.

There are ways to identify who the redditor is. I'm not saying it's easy. And then, if they are under a contract, it doesn't matter if s8 is finished, because that would mean pay a fine.

And there are ways to prevent this, in my previous post I put various examples on this matter, one of them was leaking other stuff themselves. So yes, in part, it's their fault. With the bufget they have, and some creative thinking, they could prevent or at least try to prevent it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Newstar said:
  •  

I think the spoilery photographer shots for Season 7 were taken not with drones but with really good cameras, which is how we got shots of Jon and Dany's scenes in the Basque region that were taken hundreds of yards away.

Most were taken with DSLRs with powerful telephoto lenses, heck with my cropped sensor my 600mm lens has the angle of view of a 900mm lens which is roughly 18X normal eyesight.  Couple that with image stabilization, the fact that they are probably shooting with 1000mm lenses (at least that's what I have seen from the exfil data) and they are at anywhere from 20-30 X magnification, throw in that they then crop in on the image and the photogs could be a couple of miles away in some instances.  However the exfil data that I have seen shows that at least some of the images were taken by drones.

 

  • Now for those who need it, an explanation of the nerdy photog terms;
  1. DSLR, Digital Single Lens Reflex, a camera with through the lens viewing via a mirror that swings out of the way to take the exposure.
  2. Cropped Sensor, a sensor that is smaller than 35mm, often used on DSLRs to reduce cost and size.  They also give around 1.5X the apparent magnification of a particular focal length (e.g. 100mm appears to magnify as a 150mm lens).  The cropped sensor doesn't increase the actual magnification, just the apparent. 
  3. Normal eyesight is often calculated as a 50mm lens on a 35 mm camera.
  4. Image stabilization, an electronic device that reduces the effects of "camera shake" caused by handholding or vibration of the lens when shooting.  The greater the magnification the more apparent vibrations.  Image stabilization allows for the easier use of extreme telephoto lenses
  5. EXFIL Data, all digital cameras record at least some information as to exposure, type of camera used, etc. and embeds that data in the image file.  Generally speaking the more professional the camera the more information that is recorded, this can even include things such as copyright information and physical location when taken and even camera serial numbers.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19. 3. 2017 at 2:34 PM, Newstar said:

GOT is very popular in Sweden. Also, there were filming leaks and cast photos coming out of Iceland, which is certainly more remote than Sweden.

I think Bryan Cogman strongly hinted that GRRM hasn't told them anything about Sandor post-AFFC. I wouldn't expect Book Sandor's fate to bear any resemblance to TV Sandor's.

We got few pics of Iceland because they were filming right next to where tourists usually go by.

I'm really curious to see what will happen to SanSan because George has been mentioning them in the past, D&D too. Like it doesn't seems that's the case but wouldn't be surprised if it'll happen in the books but won't on the show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The newest trailer has the latest clue as to the father of Jon Snow. It shows what appears to be a dual sword wielding Jon Snow jumping into battle. Like father like son.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hallapino said:

The newest trailer has the latest clue as to the father of Jon Snow. It shows what appears to be a dual sword wielding Jon Snow jumping into battle. Like father like son.

His father (both adoptive and real) never fought with dual swords. Also Longclaw is a bastard sword, and it wouldn't fit a dual-sword fighting style.
Who do you think is his father? Also, what trailer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, hallapino said:

The newest trailer has the latest clue as to the father of Jon Snow. It shows what appears to be a dual sword wielding Jon Snow jumping into battle. Like father like son.

Which trailer? A dual sword wielding Jon is certainly awight hunt but that's not a clue to his father.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 3/19/2017 at 2:46 PM, Byfort of Corfe said:

Most were taken with DSLRs with powerful telephoto lenses, heck with my cropped sensor my 600mm lens has the angle of view of a 900mm lens which is roughly 18X normal eyesight.  Couple that with image stabilization, the fact that they are probably shooting with 1000mm lenses (at least that's what I have seen from the exfil data) and they are at anywhere from 20-30 X magnification, throw in that they then crop in on the image and the photogs could be a couple of miles away in some instances.  However the exfil data that I have seen shows that at least some of the images were taken by drones.

  • Now for those who need it, an explanation of the nerdy photog terms;
  1. DSLR, Digital Single Lens Reflex, a camera with through the lens viewing via a mirror that swings out of the way to take the exposure.
  2. Cropped Sensor, a sensor that is smaller than 35mm, often used on DSLRs to reduce cost and size.  They also give around 1.5X the apparent magnification of a particular focal length (e.g. 100mm appears to magnify as a 150mm lens).  The cropped sensor doesn't increase the actual magnification, just the apparent. 
  3. Normal eyesight is often calculated as a 50mm lens on a 35 mm camera.
  4. Image stabilization, an electronic device that reduces the effects of "camera shake" caused by handholding or vibration of the lens when shooting.  The greater the magnification the more apparent vibrations.  Image stabilization allows for the easier use of extreme telephoto lenses
  5. EXFIL Data, all digital cameras record at least some information as to exposure, type of camera used, etc. and embeds that data in the image file.  Generally speaking the more professional the camera the more information that is recorded, this can even include things such as copyright information and physical location when taken and even camera serial numbers.

Wow, I had no idea about all this stuff. Thanks for the insight. It's cool to hear from people in the know about such things.

I wouldn't have guessed that some of the photos were taken by drones. I thought I read something about the production trying to prevent the use of drone photography with reference to the Northern Ireland filming (maybe the Battle of the Bastards in Season 6?).

 

4 hours ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

His father (both adoptive and real) never fought with dual swords. Also Longclaw is a bastard sword, and it wouldn't fit a dual-sword fighting style.
Who do you think is his father? Also, what trailer?

I think this is a reference to the theory that Arthur Dayne is Jon's real father. In the show, Arthur is a dual wielder (a change from the books, presumably to demonstrate in a visual medium Arthur Dayne's superior swordsmanship).

 

17 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

We got few pics of Iceland because they were filming right next to where tourists usually go by.

I'm really curious to see what will happen to SanSan because George has been mentioning them in the past, D&D too. Like it doesn't seems that's the case but wouldn't be surprised if it'll happen in the books but won't on the show.

Bryan Cogman seemed to imply in the 6x07 commentary track that GRRM hasn't told them anything about Sandor's fate post-AFFC.

GRRM hasn't told D&D what happens to Bronn-level minor characters (maybe because he hasn't decided yet), but GRRM has told D&D where all the mains like the Stark kids. Liam Cunningham also said not long ago that all the major relationships will be the same as in the books, and a relationship involving a major character like Sansa probably qualifies. Therefore, if Sansa ended up with Sandor or even had any meaningful romantic involvement with him beyond what's already in the books, GRRM would have told D&D back in 2013, since that would have formed part of the major plotlines and/or endgame. If Bryan Cogman really did mean in his commentary that GRRM hasn't told them anything about Sandor post-AFFC, then that means by extension that in the books Sansa doesn't end up with Sandor or even have any further meaningful romantic involvement with him.

If Sansa and Sandor don't end up together in the books, it seems unlikely that they will end up together in the show, since D&D have said that they want to stick to GRRM's ending. However, assuming for the moment that they wouldn't see throwing in a romance for Sansa as a horrible deviation from GRRM's endgame, how likely is it that it would happen in the show?

Going strictly by the show, the show has carefully avoided references to Sandor and Sansa's relationship since Season 4, focusing instead on Sandor's relationship with Arya. Sandor and Arya have both mentioned each other in each other's storyline, while the writers went to some trouble to avoid mentioning Sandor's name in Sansa's storyline in Season 6. We also know that in Season 7 not only do Sandor and Sansa not meet, with Sandor instead acting pretty much as extra muscle for the wight hunt, but we also learn that Sandor says that he has no interest in going to Winterfell, especially since Brienne is there. Also going by the show, there are only six episodes left with the potential for Sandor to meet Sansa, much less for the two to get together.

Nevertheless, as long as Sandor and Sansa are alive in the show, there's still a chance something could happen. I wouldn't get my hopes up, though.

Edited by Newstar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Newstar said:

I think this is a reference to the theory that Arthur Dayne is Jon's real father. In the show, Arthur is a dual wielder (a change from the books, presumably to demonstrate in a visual medium Arthur Dayne's superior swordsmanship).

That's what I thought, but that theory is as far fetched as Cercei being Arya's mother. I mean come on, how many hints does it take to get the truth. We have seen Jon at Castle Black in front of R+L (scratched in a wooden beam), Aemon talking about no Targ should be alone, when suddenly Jon walks in, and about 500 other not so subtle hints. We know who his parents are, especially after the scenes at the Tower of Joy.

However, I am still curious about the supposed 'new trailer'. The only official trailer I have seen is CGI only, not a real person in sight, only voices. All the rest was fan-made, with pieces of Vikings and/or parts of Kits role in Pompeï.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Newstar said:

Going strictly by the show, the show has carefully avoided references to Sandor and Sansa's relationship since Season 4, focusing instead on Sandor's relationship with Arya. Sandor and Arya have both mentioned each other in each other's storyline, while the writers went to some trouble to avoid mentioning Sandor's name in Sansa's storyline in Season 6. We also know that in Season 7 not only do Sandor and Sansa not meet, with Sandor instead acting pretty much as extra muscle for the wight hunt, but we also learn that Sandor says that he has no interest in going to Winterfell, especially since Brienne is there. Also going by the show, there are only six episodes left with the potential for Sandor to meet Sansa, much less for the two to get together.

Nevertheless, as long as Sandor and Sansa are alive in the show, there's still a chance something could happen. I wouldn't get my hopes up, though.

There is nothing that suggests it's happening. We only know he is in the wight hunt. He could speak about her with Jon in the wight hunt.

That "leak" about Sandor being scared about Brienne seems fake. I don't know if it's from leaker1 (then, it means it might be filler, like Meera's leaving because she thinks Bran has changed and other stff) and if it's from the second leaker, there is much less credibility. Not to mention that the first leaker changed the plot of Brienne several times depending on the fact that he remembered it, or not. LOL. He even ackowledged he was confused sometimes. I bet it's filler.

And, even if it's true, we don't know if they will speak about Sansa, which I think it's very likely. As it's likely that Jon and Gendry will speak about Arya.

The six episodes seems no problem for Jonerys, but 13 (and their past) are not if is  SanSan? That's contradictory.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

That's what I thought, but that theory is as far fetched as Cercei being Arya's mother. I mean come on, how many hints does it take to get the truth. We have seen Jon at Castle Black in front of R+L (scratched in a wooden beam), Aemon talking about no Targ should be alone, when suddenly Jon walks in, and about 500 other not so subtle hints. We know who his parents are, especially after the scenes at the Tower of Joy.

However, I am still curious about the supposed 'new trailer'. The only official trailer I have seen is CGI only, not a real person in sight, only voices. All the rest was fan-made, with pieces of Vikings and/or parts of Kits role in Pompeï.

That fits the pattern from last year: CGI teasers with voiceovers precede the release of the "real" trailers. I wouldn't expect "real trailers" until May or so.

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

There is nothing that suggests it's happening. We only know he is in the wight hunt. He could speak about her with Jon in the wight hunt.

We know they don't see each other at all during Season 7. That's well-established by this point. They could still mention each other, but they haven't in the past two seasons, and there's no reason to think that would change.

Quote

That "leak" about Sandor being scared about Brienne seems fake. I don't know if it's from leaker1

Sorry, it's from Lads1. Here's a SanSan shipper fuming about it on Tumblr, in response to an anon who quotes the relevant bit from Lads1:

"..the Hound isn't going anywhere near Winterfell. Especially when he hears that Brienne is there. He's not looking for a rematch."

Quote

and if it's from the second leaker, there is much less credibility.

LOL, sorry to burst your bubble, but again, it's from Lads1.

Quote

The six episodes seems no problem for Jonerys, but 13 (and their past) are not if is  SanSan? That's contradictory.

Six episodes. They don't see each other in Season 7, and as far as we know they don't mention each other, in fact there's a negative mention by the Hound where he says he has no interest in going anywhere near Winterfell.

As for their past...what past, LOL? SanSan haven't seen each other since Season 2 and haven't spoken about each other since Season 2 (Sansa) and Season 4 (Sandor). By Season 8, Sandor and Sansa won't have seen each other for five whole seasons, with no mention of each other for five seasons in Sansa's case. Sandor and Arya have far more of a relationship than Sansa and Sandor in the show.

As I said, it could happen, but it's unlikely. We know what it looks like when D&D invest in a romance--Jon/Dany getting the treatment in Season 7, Jaime/Brienne over several seasons, Grey Worm/Missandei, Robb/Talisa, Jon/Ygritte--and they haven't done that with Sandor/Sansa. When they want to push romance or do the slow burn, they are very obvious about it (Cersei straight up asking Brienne if she's in love with Jaime, Bronn openly speculating that Jaime and Brienne want to have sex), and they have done nothing with Sandor/Sansa since Season 2, apart from Sandor wishing he'd raped her in Season 4. Whatever plans they have for Sandor (I suspect it's about equal parts asskicking and comic relief), they are unlikely to involve romance, which makes sense if GRRM told them that Sansa's endgame didn't include Sandor as I suspect he did.

At this point, I think any show ships that aren't Jon/Dany, Grey Worm/Missandei or Jaime/Brienne, the only three ships that the show is at all invested in as of Season 7, are DOA. A lot of fans are going to start losing their minds after Season 7 when they realize that their ships are not going to happen. Anyone hoping for a bunch of characters to start pairing off will be sorely disappointed.

Edited by Newstar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

46 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Sorry, it's from Lads1. Here's a SanSan shipper fuming about it on Tumblr, in response to an anon who quotes the relevant bit from Lads1:

"..the Hound isn't going anywhere near Winterfell. Especially when he hears that Brienne is there. He's not looking for a rematch."

LOL, sorry to burst your bubble, but again, it's from Lads1.

Six episodes. They don't see each other in Season 7, and as far as we know they don't mention each other, in fact there's a negative mention by the Hound where he says he has no interest in going anywhere near Winterfell.

And I see no point in that scene happening if he is going to the wight hunt. That leak is really werid, as others (very few, but existing) from the first leaker. I think that was filler, small stuff he invented in the middle of the other leaks that are likely to be true. He didn't know what the plot of Brienne was about, so I don't see why we wshould believe that he knows that small weird detail about the Hound and her.

That so-called negative mention by the Hound it's about Brienne, not Sansa. And IMO, as I have just explained, it's fake.

As for SanSan, yes, as you mentioned, Sansa could be mentioned, and I think that is what will happen, same with Arya.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Newstar said:

Bryan Cogman seemed to imply in the 6x07 commentary track that GRRM hasn't told them anything about Sandor's fate post-AFFC.

GRRM hasn't told D&D what happens to Bronn-level minor characters (maybe because he hasn't decided yet), but GRRM has told D&D where all the mains like the Stark kids. Liam Cunningham also said not long ago that all the major relationships will be the same as in the books, and a relationship involving a major character like Sansa probably qualifies. Therefore, if Sansa ended up with Sandor or even had any meaningful romantic involvement with him beyond what's already in the books, GRRM would have told D&D back in 2013, since that would have formed part of the major plotlines and/or endgame. If Bryan Cogman really did mean in his commentary that GRRM hasn't told them anything about Sandor post-AFFC, then that means by extension that in the books Sansa doesn't end up with Sandor or even have any further meaningful romantic involvement with him.

If Sansa and Sandor don't end up together in the books, it seems unlikely that they will end up together in the show, since D&D have said that they want to stick to GRRM's ending. However, assuming for the moment that they wouldn't see throwing in a romance for Sansa as a horrible deviation from GRRM's endgame, how likely is it that it would happen in the show?

Going strictly by the show, the show has carefully avoided references to Sandor and Sansa's relationship since Season 4, focusing instead on Sandor's relationship with Arya. Sandor and Arya have both mentioned each other in each other's storyline, while the writers went to some trouble to avoid mentioning Sandor's name in Sansa's storyline in Season 6. We also know that in Season 7 not only do Sandor and Sansa not meet, with Sandor instead acting pretty much as extra muscle for the wight hunt, but we also learn that Sandor says that he has no interest in going to Winterfell, especially since Brienne is there. Also going by the show, there are only six episodes left with the potential for Sandor to meet Sansa, much less for the two to get together.

Nevertheless, as long as Sandor and Sansa are alive in the show, there's still a chance something could happen. I wouldn't get my hopes up, though.

If Liam said it then I guess it will be this way.

Same goes for Arya and Gendry. I really like them but last tiome they've seen each other was back in season 3. One season with previous scenes between might be enough for whatever purpose. Jon and Dany needs whole season to be organic because they never met before. Robb and Talisa, Jon and Ygritte too were romance at that specific time. They might not go into romantic territory with them, but for sure they'll meet and have heart to heart conversations. I remember George said pretty positive things about SanSan and as long as he didn't change that, it should be what he said. D&D joked about their height and how good it is that Sansa as Sophie is tall because Rory is.

Maybe D&D didn't want to mention Sandor to Sansa in that scene between her and Brienne. Brienne knew who that man was but maybe leave it as a surprise for Sansa? BEsides fighting we have also realtionship in the midst of these battles, so there will be time to adress it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Newstar said:

As for their past...what past, LOL? SanSan haven't seen each other since Season 2 and haven't spoken about each other since Season 2 (Sansa) and Season 4 (Sandor). By Season 8, Sandor and Sansa won't have seen each other for five whole seasons, with no mention of each other for five seasons in Sansa's case. Sandor and Arya have far more of a relationship than Sansa and Sandor in the show.

As I said, it could happen, but it's unlikely. We know what it looks like when D&D invest in a romance--Jon/Dany getting the treatment in Season 7, Jaime/Brienne over several seasons, Grey Worm/Missandei, Robb/Talisa, Jon/Ygritte--and they haven't done that with Sandor/Sansa. When they want to push romance or do the slow burn, they are very obvious about it (Cersei straight up asking Brienne if she's in love with Jaime, Bronn openly speculating that Jaime and Brienne want to have sex), and they have done nothing with Sandor/Sansa since Season 2, apart from Sandor wishing he'd raped her in Season 4. Whatever plans they have for Sandor (I suspect it's about equal parts asskicking and comic relief), they are unlikely to involve romance, which makes sense if GRRM told them that Sansa's endgame didn't include Sandor as I suspect he did.

At this point, I think any show ships that aren't Jon/Dany, Grey Worm/Missandei or Jaime/Brienne, the only three ships that the show is at all invested in as of Season 7, are DOA. A lot of fans are going to start losing their minds after Season 7 when they realize that their ships are not going to happen. Anyone hoping for a bunch of characters to start pairing off will be sorely disappointed.

There are so many innaccuracies here, it's hard to know where to begin...I'm not at home now so my phone doesn't let me post links to prove you wrong in these paragraphs, so I can reply to that. But basically, Sandor never wishes to rape her, in fact he saves her, and there is a past there, that follows a bwtb story. I think people will be surprised with s8, and I hope in my case and many other fans, it's for the good. If Jonerys has happened without a common past, let's say that established romances from the books (and with some hints in the show) have many many possibilities to still happen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

And I see no point in that scene happening if he is going to the wight hunt. That leak is really werid, as others (very few, but existing) from the first leaker. I think that was filler, small stuff he invented in the middle of the other leaks that are likely to be true. He didn't know what the plot of Brienne was about, so I don't see why we wshould believe that he knows that small weird detail about the Hound and her.

That so-called negative mention by the Hound it's about Brienne, not Sansa. And IMO, as I have just explained, it's fake.

Lads1 knew lots of specific little bits that weren't anywhere else. He was right about everything so far, and he described the wight hunt in great detail. There's no reason to believe that he got any of it wrong. Also, the specific quote is that the Hound isn't going anywhere near Winterfell, "especially" when he hears that Brienne is there, suggesting it was something he was already disinclined to do. That's pretty much the opposite of shippy.

 

42 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

D&D joked about their height and how good it is that Sansa as Sophie is tall because Rory is.

Maybe D&D didn't want to mention Sandor to Sansa in that scene between her and Brienne. Brienne knew who that man was but maybe leave it as a surprise for Sansa? BEsides fighting we have also realtionship in the midst of these battles, so there will be time to adress it.

Sure, they joked about it...back around Season 2 when Sandor and Sansa were still having interactions with each other. 

D&D have been about as subtle as a brick to the head when it comes to romance. If they were going in a SanSan direction, we'd probably know about it by now.

38 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

But basically, Sandor never wishes to rape her,

Sandor in the show says "I should have fucked her bloody. At least I'd have one happy memory." Unless you're suggesting that Sansa would have consented to him fucking her in that particular instance, when it's very clear she would not, he is indeed wishing he'd raped her. This is the last time he mentions Sansa on the show to date and it's about as far from a "romantic" moment as you can get.

Quote

in fact he saves her, and there is a past there, that follows a bwtb story.

Not really. There's stuff in the books (calling it an "established romance" is simply untrue), but they pretty much gutted it for the show, as many a butthurt SanSan fan will tell you. In the show, there is no "past," and no future either, from the looks of it.

Quote

I think people will be surprised with s8

I think people who are hoping that D&D will drop in SanSan or similar pairings (Gendrya, e.g.) out of nowhere in Season 8 after doing nothing for several seasons will be very disappointed with Season 8, but only because they weren't paying attention or were in denial. 

The reaction to the news that Jon/Dany will be canon in Season 7--denial, followed by disappointment, rage, and more denial--is a preview of what awaits the writers after Season 8.

Quote

If Jonerys has happened without a common past

Jon/Dany have never met. Sandor/Sansa have met, parted, and from all indications have forgotten about each other, even as D&D have worked hard to establish a relationship of emotional weight and significance between Sandor and another character (Arya). Big difference.

Quote

Let's say that established romances from the books (and with some hints in the show) have many many possibilities to still happen. 

SanSan is not an "established romance," LOL. There's "something there," according to GRRM, but we don't know where it will go, indeed if anywhere. 

Also, it seems as if GRRM told the writers Sansa's endgame but also, according to Bryan Cogman, told the writers nothing about Sandor post-AFFC, which pretty much confirms that GRRM has already told D&D that SanSan is not going to happen, and they're writing accordingly.

And as I said in this post, if D&D were going ahead with SanSan, it would be very obvious. Haters of the show are always complaining about the lack of subtlety in the writing, and frankly they're not wrong. If you have to claim that spoilers that don't favour your ship of choice must be mistaken, look for the tiniest hints of your ship's romance in the show--I believe someone suggested that the fact that both Sansa and Sandor drink ale is D&D's attempt to show a deep connection--or come up with elaborate explanations as to why D&D have played up Sandor's bond with Arya while downplaying his relationship with Sansa, it's not there.

Is there a chance for SanSan in Season 8? Sure. They're both still alive as far as we know at the end of Season 7 (although I have my doubts about Sansa). I wouldn't hold my breath, though. I think Bryan Cogman gave the game away already. Look for Sandor to threaten to eat chickens, kick ass, and crack wise in Season 8, since that's all the writers seem to think he's any good for. 

Edited by Newstar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Newstar said:

Lads1 knew lots of specific little bits that weren't anywhere else. He was right about everything so far, and he described the wight hunt in great detail. There's no reason to believe that he got any of it wrong. Also, the specific quote is that the Hound isn't going anywhere near Winterfell, "especially" when he hears that Brienne is there, suggesting it was something he was already disinclined to do. That's pretty much the opposite of shippy.

 

Sure, they joked about it...back around Season 2 when Sandor and Sansa were still having interactions with each other. 

D&D have been about as subtle as a brick to the head when it comes to romance. If they were going in a SanSan direction, we'd probably know about it by now.

Sandor in the show says "I should have fucked her bloody. At least I'd have one happy memory." Unless you're suggesting that Sansa would have consented to him fucking her in that particular instance, when it's very clear she would not, he is indeed wishing he'd raped her. This is the last time he mentions Sansa on the show to date and it's about as far from a "romantic" moment as you can get.

Not really. There's stuff in the books (calling it an "established romance" is simply untrue), but they pretty much gutted it for the show, as many a butthurt SanSan fan will tell you. In the show, there is no "past," and no future either, from the looks of it.

I think people who are hoping that D&D will drop in SanSan or similar pairings (Gendrya, e.g.) out of nowhere in Season 8 after doing nothing for several seasons will be very disappointed with Season 8, but only because they weren't paying attention or were in denial. 

The reaction to the news that Jon/Dany will be canon in Season 7--denial, followed by disappointment, rage, and more denial--is a preview of what awaits the writers after Season 8.

Jon/Dany have never met. Sandor/Sansa have met, parted, and from all indications have forgotten about each other, even as D&D have worked hard to establish a relationship of emotional weight and significance between Sandor and another character (Arya). Big difference.

SanSan is not an "established romance," LOL. There's "something there," according to GRRM, but we don't know where it will go, indeed if anywhere. 

Also, it seems as if GRRM told the writers Sansa's endgame but also, according to Bryan Cogman, told the writers nothing about Sandor post-AFFC, which pretty much confirms that GRRM has already told D&D that SanSan is not going to happen, and they're writing accordingly.

And as I said in this post, if D&D were going ahead with SanSan, it would be very obvious. Haters of the show are always complaining about the lack of subtlety in the writing, and frankly they're not wrong. If you have to claim that spoilers that don't favour your ship of choice must be mistaken, look for the tiniest hints of your ship's romance in the show--I believe someone suggested that the fact that both Sansa and Sandor drink ale is D&D's attempt to show a deep connection--or come up with elaborate explanations as to why D&D have played up Sandor's bond with Arya while downplaying his relationship with Sansa, it's not there.

Is there a chance for SanSan in Season 8? Sure. They're both still alive as far as we know at the end of Season 7 (although I have my doubts about Sansa). I wouldn't hold my breath, though. I think Bryan Cogman gave the game away already. Look for Sandor to threaten to eat chickens, kick ass, and crack wise in Season 8, since that's all the writers seem to think he's any good for. 

Some people think Jon and Sansa will happen and it is subtle. But that's for anothe debate.

D&D aren' subtle in general Shireen, Olly or romances. But also like to shock the audience with varius things, so who knows with them. Iam not rulling this out, yet. But many things points to SanSan not going to be endgame couple. I wonder, what will happen with Sansa. If she'll ever marry because people belive due to Ashford Tourney theory Changing Jon for Aegon..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

If Liam said it then I guess it will be this way.

Same goes for Arya and Gendry. I really like them but last tiome they've seen each other was back in season 3. One season with previous scenes between might be enough for whatever purpose. Jon and Dany needs whole season to be organic because they never met before. Robb and Talisa, Jon and Ygritte too were romance at that specific time. They might not go into romantic territory with them, but for sure they'll meet and have heart to heart conversations. I remember George said pretty positive things about SanSan and as long as he didn't change that, it should be what he said. D&D joked about their height and how good it is that Sansa as Sophie is tall because Rory is.

 

 

34 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Some people think Jon and Sansa will happen and it is subtle. But that's for anothe debate.

D&D aren' subtle in general Shireen, Olly or romances. But also like to shock the audience with varius things, so who knows with them. Iam not rulling this out, yet. But many things points to SanSan not going to be endgame couple. I wonder, what will happen with Sansa. If she'll ever marry because people belive due to Ashford Tourney theory Changing Jon for Aegon..

Yes, I agree with that. They also like shock, so they could play with that. In fact, I think it might be the case. And let's not forget, as you mention, sometimes one season/some scenes might be enough for whatever the purpose is between two characters: romance, friendship, etc.

And I agree that with Jon and Dany they need a whole season to make it realistic because they have never met before, so it's very possible they will be using s6 for that purpose, in case this is happening, which I think it's likely. And with, let's say, Gendry and Arya, I think they put hints in previous seasons, like when she was looking at him in Harrenhall, or when he was sold, the way she looked at him, the shot was very long....and focused on her reaction a lot, so it could still happen (or not of course, everything is possible).

Quote

Maybe D&D didn't want to mention Sandor to Sansa in that scene between her and Brienne. Brienne knew who that man was but maybe leave it as a surprise for Sansa? BEsides fighting we have also realtionship in the midst of these battles, so there will be time to adress it.

Yes, if that leak was true, which I doubt there are two things to take into consideration in case it's true:

1) Sandor is afraid of Brienne, not of Winterfell or Sansa.

2) I think what you mention might be possible, maybe it's not the moment to introduce her in his plot, so they are waiting for a reunion next season (maybe mentioning her in another circumstances? like the wight hunt); In fact it would make sense, since, if Sandor knew Sansa was in WF (even if he was afraid of Brienne, LOL) he might also want to see her, so better not mention her in that weird scene.

And then, in s8, they can develop their romance or friendship (or both) when they can physically meet. I know is that they'll both be happy to see eachother :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Newstar said:

As for their past...what past, LOL? SanSan haven't seen each other since Season 2 and haven't spoken about each other since Season 2 (Sansa) and Season 4 (Sandor). By Season 8, Sandor and Sansa won't have seen each other for five whole seasons, with no mention of each other for five seasons in Sansa's case. Sandor and Arya have far more of a relationship than Sansa and Sandor in the show.

 

2 hours ago, Newstar said:

Sandor in the show says "I should have fucked her bloody. At least I'd have one happy memory." Unless you're suggesting that Sansa would have consented to him fucking her in that particular instance, when it's very clear she would not, he is indeed wishing he'd raped her. This is the last time he mentions Sansa on the show to date and it's about as far from a "romantic" moment as you can get.

I disagree with that statement about Sandor's wishes.. My interpretation was very different when I watched the show. And I think a lot of people (if not the vast majority of viewers) would agree with me. Sandor is suffering because he knows he is dying, but it will happen slowly. He knows that if Arya leaves he will die suffering. He then decides he wants to die quickly, and the only way for that to happen is being killed by Arya. The way he can do that is hurting her. How can he hurt her? Obviously, saying to her he would have loved to rape her sister or that he enjoyed doing so.

But, considering ther is a bond with Arya and Sandor, she is torn about that, she is about to kill him because he is her friend, but at the same time, he's still in her list and wants him to suffer. Ultimately, she decides not to kill him meaning that she changed her mind about him: he is not just a name on her list (a guy he hates), so she "pardoned" him for that and put his name out, but ironically, that means leaving him dying slowly. It could also be interpreted as that he let him die slowly because she wanted him to suffer (and thus is still an evil name on her list) but we all know that's not the case. There is a bond, strong enough so as to put his name out, not strong enough so as to kill him (or try to save him), so she let him die or whatever, saying to her it was not of her business any more.

So, to sum up: if there is this bond between Sandor and Arya, as you have mentioned, and he was dying, he would not say on that moment  that he would have loved to rape her sister (only a person who hates Arya would say this), because that would hurt her. And, even if there  was no bond, he still wants to stop suffering, so this is the reason why he said so. 

That was the episode tried to show us, not that Sandor wants to rape Sansa 

Quote

Also, it seems as if GRRM told the writers Sansa's endgame but also, according to Bryan Cogman, told the writers nothing about Sandor post-AFFC, which pretty much confirms that GRRM has already told D&D that SanSan is not going to happen, and they're writing accordingly.

This is the commentary of 6.07: Is this what are you referring? That's what I found, where do you see that Sansan is not happening? I think it doesn't have to do with that at all

 (I think it's the only one involving BC but if it's another, please could you post it here in this thread?)

Natalie Dormer: I'm sure Kit won't mind me saying as we are friends, but I was actually more excited about Rory's return than his...

Ian McShane: My role is to bring him back, and he learns a bit of humanity from Brother Ray.

Bryan Cogman: Yes, he does. We knew we wanted to bring him back this season, and it's interesting that in the books, Brother Ray is sort of a blend of a couple characters that actually Brienne encounters. And there's a hint that the Hound may be hiding out with one of these characters in the books, George hasn't revealed kind of what he's going to do with that yet, but we took that kernel and fashioned this storyline... It's a sort of paraphrasing version of a speech that one of the characters gives in the books. So George's soul is in there as well, as I hope it is in all the scenes we write, even if they're not in his book.

-- Commentary for 6x07, talking about how the show revealed Sandor's return before the books

 

Edited by Meera of Tarth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/3/2017 at 7:46 PM, Byfort of Corfe said:

Most were taken with DSLRs with powerful telephoto lenses, heck with my cropped sensor my 600mm lens has the angle of view of a 900mm lens which is roughly 18X normal eyesight.  Couple that with image stabilization, the fact that they are probably shooting with 1000mm lenses (at least that's what I have seen from the exfil data) and they are at anywhere from 20-30 X magnification, throw in that they then crop in on the image and the photogs could be a couple of miles away in some instances.  However the exfil data that I have seen shows that at least some of the images were taken by drones.

 

  • Now for those who need it, an explanation of the nerdy photog terms;
  1. DSLR, Digital Single Lens Reflex, a camera with through the lens viewing via a mirror that swings out of the way to take the exposure.
  2. Cropped Sensor, a sensor that is smaller than 35mm, often used on DSLRs to reduce cost and size.  They also give around 1.5X the apparent magnification of a particular focal length (e.g. 100mm appears to magnify as a 150mm lens).  The cropped sensor doesn't increase the actual magnification, just the apparent. 
  3. Normal eyesight is often calculated as a 50mm lens on a 35 mm camera.
  4. Image stabilization, an electronic device that reduces the effects of "camera shake" caused by handholding or vibration of the lens when shooting.  The greater the magnification the more apparent vibrations.  Image stabilization allows for the easier use of extreme telephoto lenses
  5. EXFIL Data, all digital cameras record at least some information as to exposure, type of camera used, etc. and embeds that data in the image file.  Generally speaking the more professional the camera the more information that is recorded, this can even include things such as copyright information and physical location when taken and even camera serial numbers.

 

 

cool thank you! I didn't think they could have been sooo far and still took so high resolution photos.... I agree about the drones!

6 hours ago, Newstar said:

Bryan Cogman seemed to imply in the 6x07 commentary track that GRRM hasn't told them anything about Sandor's fate post-AFFC.

GRRM hasn't told D&D what happens to Bronn-level minor characters (maybe because he hasn't decided yet), but GRRM has told D&D where all the mains like the Stark kids. Liam Cunningham also said not long ago that all the major relationships will be the same as in the books, and a relationship involving a major character like Sansa probably qualifies. Therefore, if Sansa ended up with Sandor or even had any meaningful romantic involvement with him beyond what's already in the books, GRRM would have told D&D back in 2013, since that would have formed part of the major plotlines and/or endgame. If Bryan Cogman really did mean in his commentary that GRRM hasn't told them anything about Sandor post-AFFC, then that means by extension that in the books Sansa doesn't end up with Sandor or even have any further meaningful romantic involvement with him.

What did Brian say in the commentary?

Last week I was searching for a SSM about VS swords and I've found one in which Martin talks about the unkiss. It made me think about the future of Sansa and Sandor, not necessary in a romantic way, but for sure in their role as important characters.

"[GRRM is asked about Sansa misremembering the name of Joffrey's sword.]

The Lion's Paw / Lion's Tooth business, on the other hand, is intentional. A small touch of the unreliable narrator. I was trying to establish that the memories of my viewpoint characters are not infallible. Sansa is simply remembering it wrong. A very minor thing (you are the only one to catch it to date), but it was meant to set the stage for a much more important lapse in memory. You will see, in A STORM OF SWORDS and later volumes, that Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her the night he came to her bedroom... but if you look at the scene, he never does. That will eventually mean something, but just now it's a subtle touch, something most of the readers may not even pick up on."

I thought he could mean 2 things: sansan is going to happen (or at least they are going to talk about their "relationship") or Sansa's false memory will affect the events.

So this SSM doesn't fit well with your idea, for me. I'm not saying you're wrong, but something doesn't  add up.

I'm sure Liam is right. So if you are right about Brian, then yes Sansan is not going to happen and Martin meant something else. Or in the meantime he changed his mind. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Quote

As he tells it on his Pop Rocket podcast (skip to 11:25 for the story), Branum found himself sitting near Weiss on the return flight to Los Angeles. Only he didn’t realize it was Weiss at first — he just thought it was some guy with a laptop working on a screenplay. Bored, he did what any of us would do: he peeked. “Because your instinct is, ‘This is his shitty screenplay. Why don’t I look at it?'”

Per Branum, it was the script for the premiere of Game of Thrones season 8 — Weiss was putting notes on it. “I understand that there’s nothing I can do with [the information] that isn’t creepy or skeevy, but I did sure as fuck read [what I saw of the script],” he said. “It was [the] first episode, so they were essentially recapping everything that happens in the season that is to come.”

http://winteriscoming.net/2017/03/21/comedian-guy-branum-gets-sneak-peak-premiere-script-game-thrones-season-8/

Yup, Season 8 is definitely going to leak if D&D are this careless when writing the scripts lol.  Luckily for them, it doesn't seem like this guy is going to talk. But if he did, I'm not sure that there's anything HBO could do about it.  Anyhow, I thought it was telling that they write scripts in public in such a nonchalant manner.

 

And Benioff acknowledges that those who seek spoilers will probably get them

Quote

“I’m the kind of viewer or reader where I just don’t want to know about stuff… I want to be surprised by things,” said Benioff. “So I just kind of work under the assumption that a lot of people are like me and people who are desperate to find out everything beforehand will probably find a way to do it. And that just is what it is.”

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/everything-you-missed-game-of-thrones-at-sxsw-2017

 

Edited by TheSlayerofLies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Some people think Jon and Sansa will happen and it is subtle. But that's for anothe debate.

D&D aren' subtle in general Shireen, Olly or romances. But also like to shock the audience with varius things, so who knows with them. Iam not rulling this out, yet. But many things points to SanSan not going to be endgame couple. I wonder, what will happen with Sansa. If she'll ever marry because people belive due to Ashford Tourney theory Changing Jon for Aegon..

TV Sansa at least would be well within her rights to swear off marriage forever, and Book Sansa, who lacks TV Sansa's experiences with Ramsay, is already unsure whether she ever wants to remarry. If Sansa makes it out alive, it's entirely possible she may never wish to remarry, although in the show at least, the number of people who could theoretically continue the Stark name (by naming their children Starks) is down to Sansa and Arya, and I don't think Arya would appreciate being informed by Sansa that it's all on Arya to marry and breed for the sake of the the family. 

 

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Yes, if that leak was true, which I doubt there are two things to take into consideration in case it's true:

1) Sandor is afraid of Brienne, not of Winterfell or Sansa.

I think the Tumblr SanSan fans who were up in arms at the news that Sandor has no interest in going to Winterfell especially since Brienne is there had the right of it. Either Sandor genuinely has no interest in Sansa or Arya's wellbeing so that he can't be bothered to go to Winterfell to see how they're doing, or whatever minimal interest he has is far outweighed by his terror of getting his ass kicked by Brienne. Neither bodes well for SanSan.

 

41 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I disagree with that statement about Sandor's wishes.. My interpretation was very different when I watched the show. And I think a lot of people (if not the vast majority of viewers) would agree with me.

No, he admits that he wishes he'd raped Sansa. We can argue about why he said it--in the show it seemed more of a bitter deathbed confession, not so much an attempt to push Arya any further--and but he still said it, and I think we can all agree that it's not exactly the stuff of romance. Nor were these the kind of words D&D, with their penchant for whitewashing, would have put in the mouth of someone they wished to pair off with the character he was discussing.

Quote

 

This is the commentary of 6.07: Is this what are you referring? That's what I found, where do you see that Sansan is not happening? I think it doesn't have to do with that at all

 (I think it's the only one involving BC but if it's another, please could you post it here in this thread?)

(...) And there's a hint that the Hound may be hiding out with one of these characters in the books, George hasn't revealed kind of what he's going to do with that yet, but we took that kernel and fashioned this storyline...

 

Reread it very carefully. Bryan Cogman is saying that GRRM didn't tell them what he was going to do with the Hound's storyline. That's a pretty big admission on his part, and the ramifications are huge.

It's also completely in line with what Werthead said about how much GRRM told D&D back in 2013. GRRM apparently told D&D quite candidly in the 2013 meetings where he told them all about the future plot arcs that there were several characters whose fates he didn't know. I believe Bronn was an example of the type of character GRRM's fate didn't know, and Sandor is certainly a Bronn-level character in terms of importance. Therefore, the revelation that GRRM hasn't told D&D anything about Sandor post-AFFC, and by extension anything about SanSan, makes perfect sense. 

Thus my conclusion that SanSan is not going to happen in the show and there will be no endgame SanSan in either the books or the show, a conclusion the show to date has strongly supported.

39 minutes ago, Cridefea said:

I thought he could mean 2 things: sansan is going to happen (or at least they are going to talk about their "relationship") or Sansa's false memory will affect the events.

Yes, we don't know either way in the books.

However, the show spoils far more by omission than it does by inclusion when it comes to the major characters. If SanSan has completely disappeared from the show, it does not bode well for the books at all.

A lot of fans have been extremely disappointed when faced with things in the show they had decided were impossible in the books: Jon/Dany, Stannis burning Shireen, Hodor meaning "Hold the door!", etc. I think fans who have convinced themselves that SanSan will 100% wind up together are going to be equally disillusioned in the end, and it's not going to be pretty.

As for Bryan Cogman, I think Bryan Cogman's statement seems like a tacit if inadvertent admission of Sandor's post-AFFC irrelevance, and that endgame SanSan is never going to happen. It also seems like an admission that the writers, unencumbered by any post-AFFC material on Sandor, are making up Sandor's plot as they go along, which is why I suspect he was parachuted into the wight hunt plot in Season 7 along with a bunch of other minor characters (Gendry, Thoros, etc.) making up Jon's crew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now