On Jon Snow's ultimate fate

[TyrionTLannister]

There's a lot of evidence that Jon Snow will become King of Westeros at the end, and outlive all of the other major characters.

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He rose and dressed in darkness, as Mormont’s raven muttered across the room. “Corn,” the bird said, and, “King,” and, “Snow, Jon Snow, Jon Snow.” That was queer. The bird had never said his full name before, as best Jon could recall. - ADWD Jon 

"Kings are a rare sight in the north.” Robert snorted. “More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!” - AGOT Eddard

“I know,” Jon said. He rose. Standing, he was taller than the dwarf. It made him feel strange. (…) And with that he turned and sauntered back into the feast, whistling a tune. When he opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard, and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king. - AGOT Jon 

One by one Arya had chased them down and snatched them up and brought them proudly to Syrio Forel... all but this one, this one-eared black devil of a tomcat. "That’s the real king of this castle right there,” one of the gold cloaks had told her. "Older than sin and twice as mean. One time, the king was feasting the queen's father, and that black bastard hopped up on the table and snatched a roast quail right out of Lord Tywin's fingers. Robert laughed so hard he like to burst. You stay away from that one, child.” - AGOT Arya

Death, he knew, but slow. I still have time. A year. Two years. Five. Some stone men live for ten. Time enough to cross the sea, to see Griffin’s Roost again. To end the Usurper’s line for good and all, and put Rhaegar’s son upon the Iron Throne. - ADWD The Lost Lord

Cersei is the Usurper, and Jon is Rhaegar's son.

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When Gilly entered, she went at once to her knees. Jon came around the table and drew her to her feet. "You don’t need to take a knee for me. That’s just for kings.” - ADWD Jon 

“My father drank overmuch of the Lord Crow’s wine last night. He’ll sleep most of the day.” Her breath frosted the air in small nervous puffs. “They say the king gives justice and protects the weak.” She started to climb off the rock, awkwardly, but the ice had made it slippery and her foot went out from under her. Jon caught her before she could fall, and helped her safely down. The woman knelt on the icy ground. “M'lord, I beg you—” - ACOK Jon 

This was the first time he had been deemed old enough to go with his lord father and his brothers to see the king’s justice done. (...) He put a hand on Bran’s shoulder, and Bran looked over at his bastard brother. “You did well,” Jon told him solemnly. Jon was fourteen, an old hand at justice.- AGOT Bran 

“He was no true king,” Dany said scornfully. “He did no justice. Justice... that’s what kings are for." - ASOS Daenerys

“One day, Bran, you will be Robb’s bannerman, holding a keep of your own for your brother and your king, and justice will fall to you. When that day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away. A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is.” That was when Jon reappeared on the crest of the hill before them. - AGOT Bran 

“There was no one, even in her order, who had her skill at seeing the secrets half-revealed and half-concealed within the sacred flames. Yet now she could not even seem to find her king. I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R’hllor shows me only Snow.” ADWD Melisandre 

He had known what Snow was the moment he saw that great white direwolf stalking silent at his side. One skinchanger can always sense another. Mance should have let me take the direwolf. There would be a second life worthy of a king. He could have done it, he did not doubt. The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it. - ADWD Prologue

If Jon ends up warging into Ghost at the moment of his death, this could also be an instance of foreshadowing.

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“The Lady Melisandre tells us that sometimes R’hllor permits his faithful servants to glimpse the future in flames. It seemed to me as I watched the fire this morning that I was looking at a dozen beautiful dancers, maidens garbed in yellow silk spinning and swirling before a great king. I think it was a true vision, ser. A glimpse of the glory that awaits His Grace after we take King’s Landing and the throne that is his by rights.” - ACOK Davos 

Qhorin came and stood over him as the first flame rose up flickering from the shavings of bark and dead dry, pine needles. "As shy as a maid on her wedding night,” the big ranger said in a soft voice, “and near as fair. Sometimes a man forgets how pretty a fire can be.” (...) Jon went to cut more branches, snapping each one in two before tossing it into the flames. The tree had been dead a long time, but it seemed to live again in the fire, as fiery dancers woke within each stick of wood to whirl and spin in their glowing gowns of yellow, red, and orange. - ACOK Jon 

Jon messed up her hair. “I will miss you, little sister.” Suddenly she looked like she was going to cry. “I wish you were coming with us.” "Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle." Who knows?” He was feeling better now. He was not going to let himself be sad. - AGOT Jon 

Arya is heading to King’s Landing, and expresses her wish to have Jon go with her. Jon states that different roads sometimes lead to the same castle, implying he will eventually go to King's Landing, perhaps to rule as King.

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Barristan Selmy could not dispute the truth of that. He had spent the best part of his own life obeying the commands of drunkards and madmen. “He came too late.” - ADWD The Queen's Hand

Jon laughed, laughed like a drunk or a madman, and his men laughed with him. - ASOS Jon

He laughed... and when the king laughs, the court laughs with him.- ASOS Sansa

He laughed, and Pyp and Owen and half a dozen more laughed with him. - ASOS Jon

“If Stannis wins his war, Shireen will stand as heir to the Iron Throne.” “Then I pity your Seven Kingdoms.” - ADWD Jon

His Seven Kingdoms...

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The beard was squinting suspiciously at Dunk. “No one sees her ladyship unless the Longinch gives his leave. You come with me. Your stableboy can stay with the horses.” "I’m a squire, not a stableboy,” Egg insisted. “Are you blind, or only stupid?” - TSS

It would never do to come before this queen without a retinue of his own, if half of what they said of her was true. She might mistake him for a stableboy and hand him the reins of her horse. - ADWD Jon

Egg, who later becomes King, is mistaken for a stableboy, as Jon thinks he might be.

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“It would be a wondrous thing to see stone come to life,” he admitted, grudging. “And to mount a dragon... I remember the first time my father took me to court, Robert had to hold my hand. I could not have been older than four, which would have made him five or six. We agreed afterward that the king had been as noble as the dragons were fearsome." Stannis snorted. “Years later, our father told us that Aerys had cut himself on the throne that morning, so his Hand had taken his place. It was Tywin Lannister who’d so impressed us.” - ASOS Davos

Ser Jaime Lannister was twin to Queen Cersei; tall and golden, with flashing green eyes and a smile that cut like a knife. He wore crimson silk, high black boots, a black satin cloak. On the breast of his tunic, the lion of his House was embroidered in gold thread, roaring its defiance. They called him the Lion of Lannister to his face and whispered “Kingslayer” behind his back. Jon found it hard to look away from him. This is what a king should look like, he thought to himself as the man passed. - AGOT Jon

Robert, who later becomes King, mistook Tywin Lannister for the king. Jon thinks to himself that Jaime Lannister looks like a king.

Plus, there are many parallels (https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/38hija/spoilers_all_i_cant_believe_i_just_realized_that/) between Jon and Aragorn, who becomes King at the end of LOTR. 

On top of all this, there are a few quotes that suggest Jon will live a very long life.

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Tyrion shared around his skin of wine until even Yoren grew mellow. One by one the company drifted off to their shelters and to sleep, all but Jon Snow, who had drawn the night’s first watch. Tyrion was the last to retire, as always. As he stepped into the shelter his men had built for him, he paused and looked back at Jon Snow. The boy stood near the fire, his face still and hard, looking deep into the flames. Tyrion Lannister smiled sadly and went to bed. - AGOT Tyrion

I always thought this scene could evoke ASOIAF's final scene. I think sleep is a metaphor for death in this scene. Recall Tyrion's joke about dying in bed at the age of 80. So Tyrion and Jon will outlive most of the other main characters and live to an old age, with Tyrion dying at the very end.

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“An albino,” Theon Greyjoy said with wry amusement. “This one will die even faster than the others.” Jon Snow gave his father’s ward a long, chilling look. “I think not, Greyjoy,” he said. “This one belongs to me.” - AGOT Bran

I think this points to Jon in fact outliving his siblings and the characters mentioned in the chapter. This quote comes at the end of the first chapter GRRM wrote, so it would make sense for it to contain clues as to how ASOIAF will end. 

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Robert shook his head. “I have never seen a man sicken so quickly. We gave a tourney on my son’s name day. If you had seen Jon then, you would have sworn he would live forever. A fortnight later he was dead. The sickness was like a fire in his gut. It burned right through him.” He paused beside a pillar, before the tomb of a long-dead Stark. “I loved that old man.” - AGOT Eddard

Jon took off his helm as the other boys were pulling Grenn to his feet. The frosty morning air felt good on his face. He leaned on his sword, drew a deep breath, and allowed himself a moment to savor the victory. "That is a longsword, not an old man's cane," Ser Alliser said sharply. "Are your legs hurting, Lord Snow?" - AGOT Jon

Once he swore his vow, the Wall would be his home until he was old as Maester Aemon. “I have not sworn yet,” he muttered. He was no outlaw, bound to take the black or pay the penalty for his crimes. He had come here freely, and he might leave freely . . . until he said the words. He need only ride on, and he could leave it all behind. By the time the moon was full again, he would be back in Winterfell with his brothers. - AGOT Jon

This could be even more significant if it turns out that Jon's true name is Aemon.

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The Red Keep was full of cats: lazy old cats dozing in the sun, cold-eyed mousers twitching their tails, quick little kittens with claws like needles, ladies’ cats all combed and trusting, ragged shadows prowling the midden heaps. One by one Arya had chased them down and snatched them up and brought them proudly to Syrio Forel . . . all but this one, this one-eared black devil of a tomcat. “That’s the real king of this castle right there,” one of the gold cloaks had told her. “Older than sin and twice as mean. One time, the king was feasting the queen’s father, and that black bastard hopped up on the table and snatched a roast quail right out of Lord Tywin’s fingers. Robert laughed so hard he like to burst. You stay away from that one, child.” - AGOT Arya

The black tomcat represents Jon, because Jon is also a black bastard and the real king of the castle, due to R+L=J. Then the other 5 types of cats represent the Stark children. "Quick little kittens with claws like needles" is Arya, "ladies' cats all combed and trusting" is Sansa, etc. And Arya represents Death. One by one Death comes to all the Stark children, and only after they all die does it come to Jon.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

17 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

Jon Snow will become King of Westeros at the end,

We had a couple of threads about this before. You might find those interesting: A King in Hiding: Adding It All Up and A King in Hiding: Adding It All Up Part 2

[TyrionTLannister]

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We had a couple of threads about this before. You might find those interesting: A King in Hiding: Adding It All Up and A King in Hiding: Adding It All Up Part 2

I've read them before. That's actually where I got a lot of the evidence.

[GloubieBoulga]

No doubt that Jon is a symbollic/hidden king, but I think that doesn't significate he must be king at the end (in a certain way, the evidence is to huge and correspond to "well" to the classic fantasy = the bastard boy of a king who save the world and become king, what a cliché !) 

If I must bet, I choose what he predict to Arya, teasing her : 

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"When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers." (Arya I, AGOT)

It is known that Jon knows nothing. So he can't know that he was speaking of his own fate 

[ravenous reader]

3 hours ago, TyrionTLannister said:

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The Red Keep was full of cats: lazy old cats dozing in the sun, cold-eyed mousers twitching their tails, quick little kittens with claws like needles, ladies’ cats all combed and trusting, ragged shadows prowling the midden heaps. One by one Arya had chased them down and snatched them up and brought them proudly to Syrio Forel . . . all but this one, this one-eared black devil of a tomcat. “That’s the real king of this castle right there,” one of the gold cloaks had told her. “Older than sin and twice as mean. One time, the king was feasting the queen’s father, and that black bastard hopped up on the table and snatched a roast quail right out of Lord Tywin’s fingers. Robert laughed so hard he like to burst. You stay away from that one, child.” - AGOT Arya

The black tomcat represents Jon, because Jon is also a black bastard and the real king of the castle, due to R+L=J. Then the other 5 types of cats represent the Stark children. "Quick little kittens with claws like needles" is Arya, "ladies' cats all combed and trusting" is Sansa, etc. And Arya represents Death. One by one Death comes to all the Stark children, and only after they all die does it come to Jon.

I like this cat analogy!  So, who would be the 'lazy old cat dozing in the sun', the 'cold-eyed mouser twitching his tail' and the 'ragged shadow prowling the midden heaps'?  I suppose the last two might be Bran and Rickon respectively (Shaggy is often described as a shadow and 'shaggy' is a synonym for 'ragged'; Bran 'cold-eyed' maybe that's referring to the 'third eye').  That leaves the 'lazy old cat in the sun' for Robb?  That doesn't seem to fit.  Robb was never lazy.  (Maybe the cat's 'dozing' because it's dead, if as you suggest sleep is a euphemism for death?)

On the other hand, there might be other possibilities for the 'black bastard.'  I always thought that might refer to Bloodraven (a Black-wood bastard who is a black sorcerer who is referred to as a devil on numerous occasions...one-eyed might be similar to one-eared...Like the cat, he was maimed by one of his brothers in a fight...):

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The Mystery Knight

He remembered then. He was a holy man sworn to the Seven, even if he did preach treason.

"His hands are scarlet with a brother's blood, and the blood of his young nephews too," the hunchback had declared to the crowd that had gathered in the market square. "A shadow came at his command to strangle brave Prince Valarr's sons in their mother's womb. Where is our Young Prince now? Where is his brother, sweet Matarys? Where has Good King Daeron gone, and fearless Baelor Breakspear? The grave has claimed them, every one, yet he endures, this pale bird with bloody beak who perches on King Aerys's shoulder and caws into his ear. The mark of hell is on his face and in his empty eye, and he has brought us drought and pestilence and murder. Rise up, I say, and remember our true king across the water. Seven gods there are, and seven kingdoms, and the Black Dragon sired seven sons! Rise up, my lords and ladies. Rise up, you brave knights and sturdy yeomen, and cast down Bloodraven, that foul sorcerer, lest your children and your children's children be cursed forever-more." Every word was treason. Even so, it was a shock to see him here, with holes where his eyes had been. "That's him, aye," Dunk said, "and another good reason to put this town behind us." He gave Thunder a touch of the spur, and he and Egg rode through the gates of Stoney Sept, listening to the soft sound of the rain. How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have? the riddle ran. A thousand eyes, and one. Some claimed the King's Hand was a student of the dark arts who could change his face, put on the likeness of a one-eyed dog, even turn into a mist. Packs of gaunt gray wolves hunted down his foes, men said, and carrion crows spied for him and whispered secrets in his ear. Most of the tales were only tales, Dunk did not doubt, but no one could doubt that Bloodraven had informers everywhere.

He had seen the man once with his own two eyes, back in King's Landing. White as bone were the skin and hair of Brynden Rivers, and his eye—he had only the one, the other having been lost to his half brother Bittersteel on the Redgrass Field—was red as blood. On cheek and neck he bore the winestain birthmark that had given him his name.

Perhaps he's even skinchanging the cat and the cat represents one of his eyes (and ears) in court!  In his time, as the real power behind the throne, he was also 'the real king of the castle' despite being a bastard.  Snatching the chicken from Tywin's hand represents snatching political power.

'Black bastard' also reminds me of 'Black-fyre bastards', so maybe it represents someone in that line instead.

56 minutes ago, GloubieBoulga said:

No doubt that Jon is a symbollic/hidden king, but I think that doesn't significate he must be king at the end (in a certain way, the evidence is to huge and correspond to "well" to the classic fantasy = the bastard boy of a king who save the world and become king, what a cliché !) 

If I must bet, I choose what he predict to Arya, teasing her : 

"When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers." (Arya I, AGOT)

It is known that Jon knows nothing. So he can't know that he was speaking of his own fate 

Very poetic!

[Mage of Hornets]

One of my hopes for the series is that Jon, the classic hidden prince, will ironically end up rejecting not just the throne, but the concept of hereditary monarchy. An ongoing theme of the series is the horrific collateral damage when wealthy nobles play the g.o.t., and Jon has now seen the Night's Watch and the free folk using different systems.

The flip side is Dany, a lost princess who doggedly pursues the throne in spite of abundant reasons not to. Her Essosi adventures have shown her some alternative approaches, too, so maybe she'll come around. That would be less symmetrical, but desirable if there's going to be a big team-up.

Of course, even if Westeros gives up on hereditary monarchy/nobility, they still need to figure out who's in charge without it turning into a bloodbath.

Maybe Jon and Dany can install Tyrion as a Platonic philosopher-king?

[IceFire125]

2 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

No doubt that Jon is a symbollic/hidden king, but I think that doesn't significate he must be king at the end (in a certain way, the evidence is to huge and correspond to "well" to the classic fantasy = the bastard boy of a king who save the world and become king, what a cliché !) 

If I must bet, I choose what he predict to Arya, teasing her : 

It is known that Jon knows nothing. So he can't know that he was speaking of his own fate 

On the contrary, the clues are well hidden.  Only if one knows GRRM's use of foreshadowing and wordplay that it all becomes apparent to the careful reader, let alone to the casual readers that do not re-read the series.

It's the false pretense that GRRM will not follow classic trope/cliche that conclude some fans thinking GRRM will not go this route. 

GRRM always reminds us, if he had planted clues/foreshadowing early on in the series to an answer and he changed it midstream to where the subject of those clues are pointing to something else (insert his usual murder mystery novels analogy here), then it wouldn't make sense to him.  Because all the writing of his earlier works in the series would be all for nothing and he would be retconning and a mess.

---

Here are just some of my favorites GRRM used where he attributes to Jon's kingship...

The Great Hall of Winterfell was hazy with smoke and heavy with the smell of roasted meat and fresh-baked bread. Its grey stone walls were draped with banners. White, gold, crimson: the direwolf of Stark, Baratheon’s crowned stag, the lion of Lannister. A singer was playing the high harp and reciting a ballad, but down at this end of the hall his voice could scarcely be heard above the roar of the fire, the clangor of pewter plates and cups, and the low mutter of a hundred drunken conversations.
It was the fourth hour of the welcoming feast laid for the king. Jon’s brothers and sisters had been seated with the royal children, beneath the raised platform where Lord and Lady Stark hosted the king and queen. In honor of the occasion, his lord father would doubtless permit each child a glass of wine, but no more than that. Down here on the benches, there was no one to stop Jon drinking as much as he had a thirst for.

...

“Don’t you usually eat at table with your brothers?”
“Most times,” Jon answered in a flat voice. “But tonight Lady Stark thought it might give insult to the royal family to seat a bastard among them.”
“I see.” His uncle glanced over his shoulder at the raised table at the far end of the hall. “My brother does not seem very festive tonight.”

Ser Jorah went to him swiftly, whispered something in his ear, and took him by the arm, but Viserys wrenched free. “Keep your hands off me! No one touches the dragon without leave.”
Dany glanced anxiously up at the high bench. Khal Drogo was saying something to the other khals beside him. Khal Jommo grinned, and Khal Ogo began to guffaw loudly.
The sound of laughter made Viserys lift his eyes. “Khal Drogo,” he said thickly, his voice almost polite. “I’m here for the feast.” He staggered away from Ser Jorah, making to join the three khals (royalty) on the high bench.
Khal Drogo rose, spat out a dozen words in Dothraki, faster than Dany could understand, and pointed. “Khal Drogo says your place is not on the high bench,” Ser Jorah translated for her brother. “Khal Drogo says your place is there.”
Viserys glanced where the khal was pointing. At the back of the long hall, in a corner by the wall, deep in shadow so better men would not need to look on them, sat the lowest of the low; raw unblooded boys, old men with clouded eyes and stiff joints, the dim-witted and the maimed. Far from the meat, and farther from honor. “That is no place for a king,” her brother declared.

**Jon and Viserys were already drunk in their respective feasts.

**Viserys was approaching the 3 Khals and Dany on the high bench.  Jon ended up running out of the hall and opposite of the high bench.  But remember, just as honor (brother's of the NW) brought Jon back to his duty to the realm when he ran away, honor will bring him back to his duty to the realm by the Great Council.  All the 5 books so far, GRRM is having Jon continue to deny his royal heritage.  There will be a time where Jon cannot run away or deny to fulfill his duty... as King.

With a raucous scream and a clap of wings, a huge raven burst out of the kettle. It flapped upward, seeking the rafters perhaps, or a window to make its escape, but there were no rafters in the vault, nor windows either. The raven was trapped. Cawing loudly, it circled the hall, once, twice, three times. And Jon heard Samwell Tarly shout, “I know that bird! That’s Lord Mormont’s raven!”
The raven landed on the table nearest Jon. “Snow,” it cawed. It was an old bird, dirty and bedraggled. “Snow,” it said again, “Snow, snow, snow.” It walked to the end of the table, spread its wings again, and flew to Jon’s shoulder.

...

But when did you hide the raven in the kettle, Sam, and how in seven hells could you be certain it would fly to Jon? It would have mucked up everything if the bird had decided to perch on Janos Slynt’s fat head.”
“I had nothing to do with the bird,” Sam insisted. “When it flew out of the kettle I almost wet myself.”

And from all corners of the realm the lords came. No castle could hold so many save for Harrenhal, so it was there that they gathered. The lords, great and small, came with their trains of bannermen, knights, squires, grooms, and servants. And behind them came yet more—the camp followers and washerwomen, the hawkers and smiths and carters.

 **I'm of the opinion GRRM will repeat this event for Jon in the Great Council to come.  It may not be in an exact point by point repeat, but the spirit of it will.  At the great castle of Harrenhal (where there will be food for storage), Westerosi lords will gather and select who will be their ruler.  With them are also multitude of people that will see the event and who will also be hungry just as the brothers of the NW were hungry during the election.  When the final vote is about to cast it will be a much larger black winged creature that will land near Jon.  Although, instead of this creature mounting Jon's shoulder, Jon will be seen mounting its shoulder, and thus leading the lords to elect Jon as king.  

Because...

“Dragons will win the lords over quicker than ravens.”

[IceFire125]

1 hour ago, Mage of Hornets said:

One of my hopes for the series is that Jon, the classic hidden prince, will ironically end up rejecting not just the throne, but the concept of hereditary monarchy. An ongoing theme of the series is the horrific collateral damage when wealthy nobles play the g.o.t., and Jon has now seen the Night's Watch and the free folk using different systems.

GRRM is already attributing Jon as a progressive.  I think he will be that type of a king...

“I do not tell men which god to worship. They were free to choose the Seven or the red woman’s Lord of Light. They chose the trees instead, with all the peril that entails.”

Jon Snow did not join the laughter. “Making mock of another man’s prayer is fool’s work, Pyp. And dangerous.”
“If the red god’s offended, let him strike me down.”
All the smiles had died. “It was the priestess we were laughing at,” said Satin, a lithe and pretty youth who had once been a whore in Oldtown. “We were only having a jape, my lord.”
“You have your gods and she has hers. Leave her be.”
“She won’t let our gods be,” argued Toad. “She calls the Seven false gods, m’lord. The old gods too. She made the wildlings burn weirwood branches. You saw.”
“Lady Melisandre is not part of my command. You are. I won’t have bad blood between the king’s men and my own.”

“My lord father used to tell me that a man must know his enemies. We understand little of the wights and less about the Others. We need to learn.”

“I do not require men to kneel, but they do need to obey.”

[TyrionTLannister]

12 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

I like this cat analogy!  So, who would be the 'lazy old cat dozing in the sun', the 'cold-eyed mouser twitching his tail' and the 'ragged shadow prowling the midden heaps'?  I suppose the last two might be Bran and Rickon respectively (Shaggy is often described as a shadow and 'shaggy' is a synonym for 'ragged'; Bran 'cold-eyed' maybe that's referring to the 'third eye').  That leaves the 'lazy old cat in the sun' for Robb?  That doesn't seem to fit.  Robb was never lazy.  (Maybe the cat's 'dozing' because it's dead, if as you suggest sleep is a euphemism for death?)

On the other hand, there might be other possibilities for the 'black bastard.'  I always thought that might refer to Bloodraven (a Black-wood bastard who is a black sorcerer who is referred to as a devil on numerous occasions...one-eyed might be similar to one-eared...Like the cat, he was maimed by one of his brothers in a fight...):

Perhaps he's even skinchanging the cat and the cat represents one of his eyes (and ears) in court!  In his time, as the real power behind the throne, he was also 'the real king of the castle' despite being a bastard.  Snatching the chicken from Tywin's hand represents snatching political power.

'Black bastard' also reminds me of 'Black-fyre bastards', so maybe it represents someone in that line instead.

Robb was the only one of the Stark children that didn't have to face winter coming. He was the one true summer child, hence the reference to the sun.

GRRM only created the Blackfyres and Bloodraven a few years after the release of AGOT, so I don't think it refers to them. Jon, on the other hand, has been referred to as a black bastard many times throughout the books.

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“The black bastard what gutted Orell," said Rattleshirt, "and a bloody warg as well.” - ASOS Jon 

She had never cared if she was pretty, even when she was stupid Arya Stark. Only her father had ever called her that. Him, and Jon Snow, sometimes. Her mother used to say she could be pretty if she would just wash and brush her hair and take more care with her dress, the way her sister did. To her sister and sister's friends and all the rest, she had just been Arya Horseface. But they were all dead now, even Arya, everyone but her half-brother, Jon. Some nights she heard talk of him, in the taverns and brothels of the Ragman's Harbor. The Black Bastard of the Wall, one man had called him. Even Jon would never know Blind Beth, I bet. That made her sad. - ADWD Arya 

If Jon outlives his siblings, that means Bran will die sometime before the end. This lends credence to my theory in the other thread about Bran's ultimate fate. 

[DarkSister]

15 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

No doubt that Jon is a symbollic/hidden king, but I think that doesn't significate he must be king at the end (in a certain way, the evidence is to huge and correspond to "well" to the classic fantasy = the bastard boy of a king who save the world and become king, what a cliché !) 

If I must bet, I choose what he predict to Arya, teasing her : 

Quote

"When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers." (Arya I, AGOT)

It is known that Jon knows nothing. So he can't know that he was speaking of his own fate 

I'm inclined to agree with this sort of thinking. ^

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“The Lady Melisandre tells us that sometimes R’hllor permits his faithful servants to glimpse the future in flames. It seemed to me as I watched the fire this morning that I was looking at a dozen beautiful dancers, maidens garbed in yellow silk spinning and swirling before a great king. I think it was a true vision, ser. A glimpse of the glory that awaits His Grace after we take King’s Landing and the throne that is his by rights.” - ACOK Davos 

Qhorin came and stood over him as the first flame rose up flickering from the shavings of bark and dead dry, pine needles. "As shy as a maid on her wedding night,” the big ranger said in a soft voice, “and near as fair. Sometimes a man forgets how pretty a fire can be.” (...) Jon went to cut more branches, snapping each one in two before tossing it into the flames. The tree had been dead a long time, but it seemed to live again in the fire, as fiery dancers woke within each stick of wood to whirl and spin in their glowing gowns of yellow, red, and orange. - ACOK Jon 

The glory awaiting the king after taking King's Landing is just Davos interpretation of what he saw. I understand the "maidens garbed in yellow silk" to be fire surrounding the king. Whether the great king is burned or survives the flames I'm not sure...

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Jon messed up her hair. “I will miss you, little sister.” Suddenly she looked like she was going to cry. “I wish you were coming with us.” "Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle." Who knows?” He was feeling better now. He was not going to let himself be sad. - AGOT Jon 

Could be Castle Black as easily as King's Landing. Though the quote could simply foreshadow Jon and Arya meeting again (or sharing similar fates) not necessarily mean they'll meet in a literal castle. 

 

However, I do completely agree Jon will become king at some point or the closest thing to a leader/hero of the story in the final books. But ultimately, I have this unexplained feeling he will not survive. GRRM promised a bittersweet ending, perhaps that's the source of it. The bastard boy becoming king with a happily ever after and a long life just doesn't seem to fit with what we've seen so far. However, the bastard boy/hidden king dying a hero makes more sense to me. Perhaps Jon will be the ultimate sacrifice at the very end.

Even more frustrating, so far it seems like Jon would make for a much better king than any of the other possible candidates. My consolation is that Jon will be a fine winter king (in contrast to someone like Edmure Tully who was a good-hearted man and might have been a great lord in peace time (spring/summer) but was ill-suited for war), Jon will be capable of weathering through the most difficult times (winter) which is when men like him will be needed the most.

[TyrionTLannister]

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 **I'm of the opinion GRRM will repeat this event for Jon in the Great Council to come.  It may not be in an exact point by point repeat, but the spirit of it will.  At the great castle of Harrenhal (where there will be food for storage), Westerosi lords will gather and select who will be their ruler.  With them are also multitude of people that will see the event and who will also be hungry just as the brothers of the NW were hungry during the election.  When the final vote is about to cast it will be a much larger black winged creature that will land near Jon.  Although, instead of this creature mounting Jon's shoulder, Jon will be seen mounting its shoulder, and thus leading the lords to elect Jon as king.  

I've never heard this before. It makes a lot of sense.

[TyrionTLannister]

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However, I do completely agree Jon will become king at some point or the closest thing to a leader/hero of the story in the final books. But ultimately, I have this unexplained feeling he will not survive. GRRM promised a bittersweet ending, perhaps that's the source of it. The bastard boy becoming king with a happily ever after and a long life just doesn't seem to fit with what we've seen so far. However, the bastard boy/hidden king dying a hero makes more sense to me. Perhaps Jon will be the ultimate sacrifice at the very end.

Jon dying a hero just seems too easy to me. He's already shown a willingness to risk his life to save others, so it wouldn't be a great sacrifice for him, especially as he's spent most of his life believing he's nothing more than a bastard. In my opinion, it would be far more powerful if he has to give up on many of his values for the greater good, and watch everyone he loves die.

[DarkSister]

10 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

Jon dying a hero just seems too easy to me. He's already shown a willingness to risk his life to save others, so it wouldn't be a great sacrifice for him, especially as he's spent most of his life believing he's nothing more than a bastard. In my opinion, it would be far more powerful if he has to give up on many of his values for the greater good, and watch everyone he loves die.

Hmm, that does make a lot of sense...

But wouldn't he go through all that internal struggle when he initially becomes King in the North or King of Westeros before the books end? We know how conflicted he was when Stannis offered to legitimize and make him Lord of Winterfell. So in the next book, when Jon does finally give up on his old notions and values to see himself become king despite always thinking little of himself as a bastard, that's when his story takes the powerful twist.

There's still plenty of time for Jon to watch his loved ones die before him. He'll still be the bastard, previously looked-down upon by everyone (including himself), that became the king forced to make tough decisions along the way. Jon will still have to choose to become that king so his death at the end doesn't necessarily have to take away from that. Jon dying will be like the final sacrifice of the series as a whole (not his own personal sacrifice).

That being said... I do understand how having to survive winter - especially after so many died - might be hard on Jon who will possibly be left with some sort of survivor's guilt. I guess that qualifies as bittersweet too, haha. And indeed, "dying a hero" does seem easy like you said... I might have misspoken hehe  He will be a hero that dies, not become a hero by dying. Not sure if that makes more sense(?) His own personal sacrifice will not be dying, its everything that happens in between Jon becoming king and the end of the books, that's what will make him the hero.

 

[IceFire125]

15 hours ago, TyrionTLannister said:

I've never heard this before. It makes a lot of sense.

GRRM continues attributing to Jon's kingship...

“Marriages and inheritance (lands/castles) are matters for the king, my lady. ” - Jon to Alys.

“The father would have handed the realm to Stannis. The son has given him lands and castles.” - Cersei to the Small Council.

**Jon presided the marriage of Sigorn and Alys.

**Both AFFC and ADWD are at a similar timeline in story.

[Free Northman Reborn]

On ‎2016‎/‎12‎/‎01 at 3:14 AM, IceFire125 said:

On the contrary, the clues are well hidden.  Only if one knows GRRM's use of foreshadowing and wordplay that it all becomes apparent to the careful reader, let alone to the casual readers that do not re-read the series.

It's the false pretense that GRRM will not follow classic trope/cliche that conclude some fans thinking GRRM will not go this route. 

GRRM always reminds us, if he had planted clues/foreshadowing early on in the series to an answer and he changed it midstream to where the subject of those clues are pointing to something else (insert his usual murder mystery novels analogy here), then it wouldn't make sense to him.  Because all the writing of his earlier works in the series would be all for nothing and he would be retconning and a mess.

---

Here are just some of my favorites GRRM used where he attributes to Jon's kingship...

The Great Hall of Winterfell was hazy with smoke and heavy with the smell of roasted meat and fresh-baked bread. Its grey stone walls were draped with banners. White, gold, crimson: the direwolf of Stark, Baratheon’s crowned stag, the lion of Lannister. A singer was playing the high harp and reciting a ballad, but down at this end of the hall his voice could scarcely be heard above the roar of the fire, the clangor of pewter plates and cups, and the low mutter of a hundred drunken conversations.
It was the fourth hour of the welcoming feast laid for the king. Jon’s brothers and sisters had been seated with the royal children, beneath the raised platform where Lord and Lady Stark hosted the king and queen. In honor of the occasion, his lord father would doubtless permit each child a glass of wine, but no more than that. Down here on the benches, there was no one to stop Jon drinking as much as he had a thirst for.

...

“Don’t you usually eat at table with your brothers?”
“Most times,” Jon answered in a flat voice. “But tonight Lady Stark thought it might give insult to the royal family to seat a bastard among them.”
“I see.” His uncle glanced over his shoulder at the raised table at the far end of the hall. “My brother does not seem very festive tonight.”

Ser Jorah went to him swiftly, whispered something in his ear, and took him by the arm, but Viserys wrenched free. “Keep your hands off me! No one touches the dragon without leave.”
Dany glanced anxiously up at the high bench. Khal Drogo was saying something to the other khals beside him. Khal Jommo grinned, and Khal Ogo began to guffaw loudly.
The sound of laughter made Viserys lift his eyes. “Khal Drogo,” he said thickly, his voice almost polite. “I’m here for the feast.” He staggered away from Ser Jorah, making to join the three khals (royalty) on the high bench.
Khal Drogo rose, spat out a dozen words in Dothraki, faster than Dany could understand, and pointed. “Khal Drogo says your place is not on the high bench,” Ser Jorah translated for her brother. “Khal Drogo says your place is there.”
Viserys glanced where the khal was pointing. At the back of the long hall, in a corner by the wall, deep in shadow so better men would not need to look on them, sat the lowest of the low; raw unblooded boys, old men with clouded eyes and stiff joints, the dim-witted and the maimed. Far from the meat, and farther from honor. “That is no place for a king,” her brother declared.

**Jon and Viserys were already drunk in their respective feasts.

**Viserys was approaching the 3 Khals and Dany on the high bench.  Jon ended up running out of the hall and opposite of the high bench.  But remember, just as honor (brother's of the NW) brought Jon back to his duty to the realm when he ran away, honor will bring him back to his duty to the realm by the Great Council.  All the 5 books so far, GRRM is having Jon continue to deny his royal heritage.  There will be a time where Jon cannot run away or deny to fulfill his duty... as King.

With a raucous scream and a clap of wings, a huge raven burst out of the kettle. It flapped upward, seeking the rafters perhaps, or a window to make its escape, but there were no rafters in the vault, nor windows either. The raven was trapped. Cawing loudly, it circled the hall, once, twice, three times. And Jon heard Samwell Tarly shout, “I know that bird! That’s Lord Mormont’s raven!”
The raven landed on the table nearest Jon. “Snow,” it cawed. It was an old bird, dirty and bedraggled. “Snow,” it said again, “Snow, snow, snow.” It walked to the end of the table, spread its wings again, and flew to Jon’s shoulder.

...

But when did you hide the raven in the kettle, Sam, and how in seven hells could you be certain it would fly to Jon? It would have mucked up everything if the bird had decided to perch on Janos Slynt’s fat head.”
“I had nothing to do with the bird,” Sam insisted. “When it flew out of the kettle I almost wet myself.”

And from all corners of the realm the lords came. No castle could hold so many save for Harrenhal, so it was there that they gathered. The lords, great and small, came with their trains of bannermen, knights, squires, grooms, and servants. And behind them came yet more—the camp followers and washerwomen, the hawkers and smiths and carters.

 **I'm of the opinion GRRM will repeat this event for Jon in the Great Council to come.  It may not be in an exact point by point repeat, but the spirit of it will.  At the great castle of Harrenhal (where there will be food for storage), Westerosi lords will gather and select who will be their ruler.  With them are also multitude of people that will see the event and who will also be hungry just as the brothers of the NW were hungry during the election.  When the final vote is about to cast it will be a much larger black winged creature that will land near Jon.  Although, instead of this creature mounting Jon's shoulder, Jon will be seen mounting its shoulder, and thus leading the lords to elect Jon as king.  

Because...

“Dragons will win the lords over quicker than ravens.”

I really like this idea. A Dragon choosing Jon much like Mormont's Raven chose him before.

 

[Lord Friendzone]

On 1. 12. 2016 at 2:14 AM, IceFire125 said:

On the contrary, the clues are well hidden.  Only if one knows GRRM's use of foreshadowing and wordplay that it all becomes apparent to the careful reader, let alone to the casual readers that do not re-read the series.

It's the false pretense that GRRM will not follow classic trope/cliche that conclude some fans thinking GRRM will not go this route. 

GRRM always reminds us, if he had planted clues/foreshadowing early on in the series to an answer and he changed it midstream to where the subject of those clues are pointing to something else (insert his usual murder mystery novels analogy here), then it wouldn't make sense to him.  Because all the writing of his earlier works in the series would be all for nothing and he would be retconning and a mess.

---

Here are just some of my favorites GRRM used where he attributes to Jon's kingship...

The Great Hall of Winterfell was hazy with smoke and heavy with the smell of roasted meat and fresh-baked bread. Its grey stone walls were draped with banners. White, gold, crimson: the direwolf of Stark, Baratheon’s crowned stag, the lion of Lannister. A singer was playing the high harp and reciting a ballad, but down at this end of the hall his voice could scarcely be heard above the roar of the fire, the clangor of pewter plates and cups, and the low mutter of a hundred drunken conversations.
It was the fourth hour of the welcoming feast laid for the king. Jon’s brothers and sisters had been seated with the royal children, beneath the raised platform where Lord and Lady Stark hosted the king and queen. In honor of the occasion, his lord father would doubtless permit each child a glass of wine, but no more than that. Down here on the benches, there was no one to stop Jon drinking as much as he had a thirst for.

...

“Don’t you usually eat at table with your brothers?”
“Most times,” Jon answered in a flat voice. “But tonight Lady Stark thought it might give insult to the royal family to seat a bastard among them.”
“I see.” His uncle glanced over his shoulder at the raised table at the far end of the hall. “My brother does not seem very festive tonight.”

Ser Jorah went to him swiftly, whispered something in his ear, and took him by the arm, but Viserys wrenched free. “Keep your hands off me! No one touches the dragon without leave.”
Dany glanced anxiously up at the high bench. Khal Drogo was saying something to the other khals beside him. Khal Jommo grinned, and Khal Ogo began to guffaw loudly.
The sound of laughter made Viserys lift his eyes. “Khal Drogo,” he said thickly, his voice almost polite. “I’m here for the feast.” He staggered away from Ser Jorah, making to join the three khals (royalty) on the high bench.
Khal Drogo rose, spat out a dozen words in Dothraki, faster than Dany could understand, and pointed. “Khal Drogo says your place is not on the high bench,” Ser Jorah translated for her brother. “Khal Drogo says your place is there.”
Viserys glanced where the khal was pointing. At the back of the long hall, in a corner by the wall, deep in shadow so better men would not need to look on them, sat the lowest of the low; raw unblooded boys, old men with clouded eyes and stiff joints, the dim-witted and the maimed. Far from the meat, and farther from honor. “That is no place for a king,” her brother declared.

**Jon and Viserys were already drunk in their respective feasts.

**Viserys was approaching the 3 Khals and Dany on the high bench.  Jon ended up running out of the hall and opposite of the high bench.  But remember, just as honor (brother's of the NW) brought Jon back to his duty to the realm when he ran away, honor will bring him back to his duty to the realm by the Great Council.  All the 5 books so far, GRRM is having Jon continue to deny his royal heritage.  There will be a time where Jon cannot run away or deny to fulfill his duty... as King.

With a raucous scream and a clap of wings, a huge raven burst out of the kettle. It flapped upward, seeking the rafters perhaps, or a window to make its escape, but there were no rafters in the vault, nor windows either. The raven was trapped. Cawing loudly, it circled the hall, once, twice, three times. And Jon heard Samwell Tarly shout, “I know that bird! That’s Lord Mormont’s raven!”
The raven landed on the table nearest Jon. “Snow,” it cawed. It was an old bird, dirty and bedraggled. “Snow,” it said again, “Snow, snow, snow.” It walked to the end of the table, spread its wings again, and flew to Jon’s shoulder.

...

But when did you hide the raven in the kettle, Sam, and how in seven hells could you be certain it would fly to Jon? It would have mucked up everything if the bird had decided to perch on Janos Slynt’s fat head.”
“I had nothing to do with the bird,” Sam insisted. “When it flew out of the kettle I almost wet myself.”

And from all corners of the realm the lords came. No castle could hold so many save for Harrenhal, so it was there that they gathered. The lords, great and small, came with their trains of bannermen, knights, squires, grooms, and servants. And behind them came yet more—the camp followers and washerwomen, the hawkers and smiths and carters.

 **I'm of the opinion GRRM will repeat this event for Jon in the Great Council to come.  It may not be in an exact point by point repeat, but the spirit of it will.  At the great castle of Harrenhal (where there will be food for storage), Westerosi lords will gather and select who will be their ruler.  With them are also multitude of people that will see the event and who will also be hungry just as the brothers of the NW were hungry during the election.  When the final vote is about to cast it will be a much larger black winged creature that will land near Jon.  Although, instead of this creature mounting Jon's shoulder, Jon will be seen mounting its shoulder, and thus leading the lords to elect Jon as king.  

Because...

“Dragons will win the lords over quicker than ravens.”

I like the sound of it.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

I don`t get the resistance of many readers against the idea of Jon King. The evidence is just overwhelming.

 

On 30/11/2016 at 10:14 PM, IceFire125 said:

“Don’t you usually eat at table with your brothers?”
“Most times,” Jon answered in a flat voice. “But tonight Lady Stark thought it might give insult to the royal family to seat a bastard among them.”
“I see.” His uncle glanced over his shoulder at the raised table at the far end of the hall. “My brother does not seem very festive tonight.”

 

this one is fantastic. Jon (the true king) would be offended to have bastard like Joffrey seated beside him.

its the same kind of foreshadowing as when he was not allowed to practice with Joffrey:

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"Why aren't you down in the yard?" Arya asked him.

He gave her a half smile. "Bastards are not allowed to damage young princes," he said. "Any bruises they take in the practice yard must come from trueborn swords."

 

 

 

[GloubieBoulga]

Beh, that's not inevitably a foreshadowing for his fate : it could, but first, it's a clue for his royal origin, not for the fact he will be king at the end. The contrary of Joffrey and Tommen, who are both kings and true bastards. So... in mirror (ironically), the hidden royal heir could never be king.;)

 

Edit : at the end (final words) of the same chapter where Jon says princes and bastards don't eat at the same table, we can see for the first time the great and royal shadow of the Imp !

[Targaryen Restoration]

I doubt Jon will be king of Westeros.  He might become king in the north after the north separates from the rest of the kingdom but that is about it.  Daenerys will end up ruling Westeros.

 

[Scorpion92]

I believe that since Jon is both "ice" and "fire" in this story, he will die once again at the very end of the story.

His first death as Lord Commander of Night's Watch was associated with "ice" - he did not even felt the fourth knife, only cold.

His second death will occur in "fire" - in a wildfire that will consume King's Landing and Red Keep courtesy of Cersei's last attempt to sabotage her enemies before her death.

We have textual foreshadowing in te case of Cregan Stark, Lord of Winterfell, who brought the Hour of the Wolf to the capital. This time around, Jon will not be just Winterfell lord - by that time Battle of the Dawn would have concluded, and he will come to take Iron Throne from the Usurper sitting in it (Cersei, she is associated with green a lot, which is a color of usurpation, there are countless threads about it).

But before burning in wildfire, Jon will warg into Ghost - second life worthy of a king, and since he and Ghost are practically one and the same (mentioned in his chapters), the direwolf will be literal "ghost" of King Jon. I think Jon/Ghost will join Bran, the new Three Eyed Crow, and live the rest of the days at Isle of Faces near God's Eye.

By the way, Dany will bear Jon's child and die in birth while King's Landing burns - to parallel Rhaegar's birth during Tragedy of Summerhall. The child will be known as "the prince that was promised",  "a SONg of ice and fire", "Lightbringer" - prince Eddard Stark, First of His Name (by the way, it will be Samwell Tarly tending and helping during the birth, since I cannot any other maester stoywise bringing Jon's kid to life).

Sansa and Tyrion will be the surrogate parents to the kid as well as two other kids - Lannister twins of Jaime and Brienne who will also die in Red Keep trying to rescue kidnapped Sansa from Cersei and UnGregor, along with Podrick, Bronn, Ser Loras Tyrell, and Sandor. 

These three kids - a Stark and Lannister twins - will grow together as a family to open a new chapter in Lannister-Stark history. Since we know how GRRM is anti-war and pro-peace, he wants to show that it is possible to make peace between two enemy factions if you try. I think it is his ultimate message - war is pointless and brings suffering to everyone involved (economically, politically, socially, mentally). Having Lannisters and Starks put aside their differences and work together in rebuilding the new realm post Long Night is a good way to end the story.