Fez Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 14 minutes ago, TerraPrime said: The conservative voters I listen to don't link jobs to immigrants. They link security and safety to immigrants. Particularly on refugee issues. A lot of them also link the various drug crises to immigrants and border security. And it is true that a lot of drugs do come through the Mexican border, but an awful lot are homegrown. Plus there's the Canadian border (lot of heroin comes through there) and all the ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 The Carrier thing reinforces my belief that Trump will win a second term. All he has to do is pull something like this every few months, and people the media will lap it up. More sober analysis that this is just a drop in the bucket, or that it's just another vector for corporate welfare will be largely ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 5 minutes ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said: The Carrier thing reinforces my belief that Trump will win a second term. All he has to do is pull something like this every few months, and people the media will lap it up. More sober analysis that this is just a drop in the bucket, or that it's just another vector for corporate welfare will be largely ignored. He has an investment in United Technologies. Shocker. http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/19/donald-trump-profited-investment-carriers-parent-company/84593308/ Edit: That article was from May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 1 minute ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: He has an investment in United Technologies. Shocker. http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/19/donald-trump-profited-investment-carriers-parent-company/84593308/ I think I saw that somewhere. I doubt that story will get traction. and even if it does, his supporters will dismiss it. Who cares if he's gaining some personal benefit if he's also helping out people like us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said: I think I saw that somewhere. I doubt that story will get traction. and even if it does, his supporters will dismiss it. Who cares if he's gaining some personal benefit if he's also helping out people like us. You have to wonder what it will take for them to wake up and realize they've been had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 16 minutes ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said: The Carrier thing reinforces my belief that Trump will win a second term. All he has to do is pull something like this every few months, and people the media will lap it up. More sober analysis that this is just a drop in the bucket, or that it's just another vector for corporate welfare will be largely ignored. It is far too soon to make that prediction without it being a wild ass guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 9 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: It is far too soon to make that prediction without it being a wild ass guess. I hope you're right. A lot could happen in the next four years, and Trump could do all sorts of stupid, crazy things. But current trends aren't promising. and I have the feeling that four years of Trump will normalize him rather than turn people off to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 9 minutes ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said: I hope you're right. A lot could happen in the next four years, and Trump could do all sorts of stupid, crazy things. But current trends aren't promising. and I have the feeling that four years of Trump will normalize him rather than turn people off to him. It really depends on how the overall economy does. If it tanks, stunts like this will make Bush's Mission Accomplished banner seem quaint. If it does well, this is just the cherry on top for Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 2 hours ago, Mikael said: Well, I probably haven't been as clear as I should've. My point wasn't that Trump won because he presented good strategies for the working class or w/e, though he certainly seems to have come across to a segment of the population as someone who would champion their causes (to me it seems like he's been a tabula rasa on which different groups project different traits). My point was that I don't understand how economic equality isn't very high up on the list of priorities for every minority that is also part of the working class. It's a very reasonable question, but the answer is quite complicated. In short, under the current system, minorities have certain advantages and certain disadvantages (I'm generalizing -- not all minorities have all of them in common, but the idea is the same). A large fraction of them believes that the net effect of this arrangement is detrimental to them and would like the advantages increased or disadvantages eliminated or both. A large fraction of the white working class disagrees, believing that the minorities already have too many advantages and the disadvantages are of their own making. The result is that these people are continuously at each others' throats and the neoliberals get to carry out their policies unhindered by either set. If the working class ever figures out that instead of fighting each other for larger fractions of a shrinking pie they should unite and take on the elites, the country will change. However, I very strongly doubt that this will happen any time soon -- there are too many divisions and too much acrimony, both of which are actively nourished and encouraged by both the Democrats and the Republicans through their servants in the media and in academia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Anyone else find it funny that the anti-socialism crowd is now ok that the govt just paid a company $7 million to save 700 jobs? Funny how govt can create jobs if a Republican says so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 1 minute ago, aceluby said: Anyone else find it funny that the anti-socialism crowd is now ok that the govt just paid a company $7 million to save 700 jobs? Funny how govt can create jobs if a Republican says so. Damn welfare queen! Quote The past few years have been very good for United Technologies. The contractor does billions of dollars a year in business with the federal government. CEO Gregory Hayes pulled down nearly $10 million in 2014, and over $20 million the year before. On Thursday, the company reported $7.6 billion in profits, up from $6.2 billion the year before, and $5.7 billion the year before that. In October, United Technologies even expanded its stock buyback program to $12 billion. Spending the company’s money to purchase its own stock elevates the value of its share prices. United Technologies was so flush with cash that it could burn money to boost returns for its investors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 52 minutes ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said: I hope you're right. A lot could happen in the next four years, and Trump could do all sorts of stupid, crazy things. But current trends aren't promising. and I have the feeling that four years of Trump will normalize him rather than turn people off to him. I disagree the latest poll taken of him this week has it 44/51 that is awful for an incoming president an almost certain to drop due to the cynical nature of politics. On top of that OPEC is gonna start cutting production so gas prices are gonna go back up again and that is gonna get people cranky quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted December 2, 2016 Author Share Posted December 2, 2016 17 minutes ago, aceluby said: Anyone else find it funny that the anti-socialism crowd is now ok that the govt just paid a company $7 million to save 700 jobs? Funny how govt can create jobs if a Republican says so. It's the new new free market. 46 minutes ago, Fez said: It really depends on how the overall economy does. If it tanks, stunts like this will make Bush's Mission Accomplished banner seem quaint. If it does well, this is just the cherry on top for Trump. Hopefully it's not just the economy that determines if he'll be reelected. That's the one area where he's likely to have some short term successes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 3 hours ago, Inigima said: I wonder if maybe people just didn't see specific plans to help them. Didn't see, didn't believe, or -worse- rejected. Few people are genuinely well informed and Clinton was deemed untrustworthy by many (if not most). What worries me most though is that some of the policies proposed by Clinton like taxing the 1% or drastically reducing the cost of higher education don't seem to be very popular anyway. Which to me begs the question: can Democrats still win thanks to their policies, or are they down to working purely on image as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Barry Whitebeard Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 24 minutes ago, aceluby said: Anyone else find it funny that the anti-socialism crowd is now ok that the govt just paid a company $7 million to save 700 jobs? Funny how govt can create jobs if a Republican says so. anti-socialists don't see tax breaks as 'paying' a company, since that implies that the money belongs to the government. It's letting the company keep their own money. Also, it's 1,069 jobs, and it's likely the incentives had little to do with it as they were planning on saving $65 million by moving the plant to Mexico. And as long as each of those jobs pays roughly $6,550 in taxes a year then that 7 million will still be paid to the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 holy shit, not sure what to make of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Just now, Bold Barry Whitebeard said: anti-socialists don't see tax breaks as 'paying' a company, since that implies that the money belongs to the government. It's letting the company keep their own money. Also, it's 1,069 jobs, and it's likely the incentives had little to do with it as they were planning on saving $65 million by moving the plant to Mexico. And as long as each of those jobs pays roughly $6,550 in taxes a year then that 7 million will still be paid to the government. The State of Indiana gives Carrier a $7 million tax break =/= to people paying state and fed income taxes on wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 3 minutes ago, Bold Barry Whitebeard said: anti-socialists don't see tax breaks as 'paying' a company, since that implies that the money belongs to the government. It's letting the company keep their own money. Also, it's 1,069 jobs, and it's likely the incentives had little to do with it as they were planning on saving $65 million by moving the plant to Mexico. And as long as each of those jobs pays roughly $6,550 in taxes a year then that 7 million will still be paid to the government. Translation: It's only socialism if the Left proposes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Member when elections had consequences? Oh, yeah, I member: Trumpgrets edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 55 minutes ago, Commodore said: holy shit, not sure what to make of this If it were part of a well-thought out strategy, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to this; the world is very different from 1979 and we longer are trying to split Sino-Soviet relations. I'm not sure it'd be great idea either, but I'd be open to the argument. However, I'm almost certainly Trump is just winging it here, the State Department has confirmed they had no contact with Trump prior to the call, and this is how long-term foreign party disasters get started. ETA: Worth noting, a couple weeks ago the Taiwanese producers of iPhones were talking with Apple about moving their manufacturing plants from China to the U.S. Re-establishing some level of relations with Taiwan may be a worthwhile price for ensuring those jobs come to the US. But again, this needs to be a thought out plan, not something half-assed. ETA2: Also worth noting, just saw this get pulled from twitter. Back in 2011, Trump tweeted this: User Actions Following Donald J. TrumpVerified account@realDonaldTrump Why is @BarackObama delaying the sale of F-16 aircraft to Taiwan? Wrong message to send to China. #TimeToGetTough Its possible he does want to implement a tougher foreign policy stance against China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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