Heresy 192 The Wheel of Time

[Black Crow]

16 hours ago, LynnS said:

I know that Maege uses a battleaxe in Rob's campaign.  It sounds to me like the Mormont's and the Manderley's know something about Lyanna that we don't.

I have a recollection of Aly Mormont telling Asha Greyjoy how she was given a mace rather a doll when she was a child and again this reinforces what I was saying about the Mormonts being a matriarchal clan where the men are squeezed out once they have outlived their usefulness. 

Ser Jorah and his fancy piece obviously weren't going to produce strong Mormont girl children - so who betrayed his selling of the poachers?

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, Black Crow said:

I have a recollection of Aly Mormont telling Asha Greyjoy how she was given a mace rather a doll when she was a child and again this reinforces what I was saying about the Mormonts being a matriarchal clan where the men are squeezed out once they have outlived their usefulness. 

Ser Jorah and his fancy piece obviously weren't going to produce strong Mormont girl children - so who betrayed his selling of the poachers?

A mace instead of a doll and a sword instead of a sewing needle. 

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Arya II

"Needle wouldn't break," Arya said defiantly, but her voice betrayed her words.

"It has a name, does it?" Her father sighed. "Ah, Arya. You have a wildness in you, child. 'The wolf blood,' my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave." Arya heard sadness in his voice; he did not often speak of his father, or of the brother and sister who had died before she was born. "Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her."

Bear Island sounds like a place where women might have to defend against raiders, poachers, slavers or reavers.  Jorah wasn't holding up the family values selling poachers to slavers.  Poachers who were small folk the Lord is meant to protect?  Children possibly?  In a wild place like Bear Island with few resources; it would seem out of character for the Mormont's to prosecute over a deer.  Certainly Joer was dishonored by it. 

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IV

"You hate this Lord Stark," Dany said.

"He took from me all I loved, for the sake of a few lice-ridden poachers and his precious honor," Ser Jorah said bitterly. From his tone, she could tell the loss still pained him. He changed the subject quickly. "There," he announced, pointing. "Vaes Dothrak. The city of the horselords."

Jorah sounds like someone who is only sorry because he got caught.  I suspect it wasn't the first time he sold the common folk to slavers. Who would the small folk turn to with Joer at the Wall?  Maege Mormont would have no choice but to go to Lord Stark.

Where do Varys' little birds come from?

[Black Crow]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

Maege Mormont would have no choice but to go to Lord Stark.

 

Exactly so. 

[Melifeather]

I think the best way to demonstrate my theory would be to get into some examples. I'd like to build on the Mormonts, but in order to get there I have to do what I call the "befores". You know, before I paint the wall it'll need to be primed, but before I prime it I should go around and calk nail holes and other imperfections, etc. Sometimes the "befores" can stretch back so much that you end up procrastinating because there are too many things that need to be done first. So, before I get to the Mormonts I need to return to the Greyjoys.

I touched briefly how I think Victarion is mirroring Bittersteel and Euron is Bloodraven. Building on that, who would be possible parallel inversions to Balon and Asha then? While Balon is both Victarion and Euron's brother IMO since he's a king he more properly mirror's Bittersteel and Bloodraven's father, King Aegon IV, while his daughter Asha is a princess and seems to more properly mirror Rhaella Targaryen. 

One of the Lords that came to Asha’s support was an old boyfriend, Trisfifer Botley who apparantly still held a torch for her. Tristifer was fostered by her mother after Theon was taken as Ned Stark’s ward, and being they were both young and hormonal they experimented, fumbling around under each other’s clothes and making out. This should be awkward, Asha thinks because apparently Asha doesn’t return Tristifer’s feelings and was actually relieved when they were caught by a maester causing Tristifer to be sent away. Tristifer has apparently been saving himself for Asha ever since, never touching another women.

Ser Barristan Selmy claimed that in her youth, Rhaella was in love with Ser Bonifer Hasty, a young landed knight from the stormlands, who once named her queen of love and beauty. It was a brief fling, as Ser Bonifer was of too low birth to ever be a serious suitor for a Princess. When Rhaella married Aerys, Bonifer devoted himself to the Faith of the Seven.

More to come...

[Frey family reunion]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 8:51 AM, Pain killer Jane said:

Ah but the question of identity takes place in front of a mirror and you are essentially asking your reflection "who are you?"

I like this.  It dovetails nicely into one of Arrya's training regimes to become a faceless man, or "no one". 

Quote

"Puff up your cheeks."  She did.  "Lift up your eyebrows.  No, higher."  She did that too.  "Good.  See how long you can hold that.  It will not be long.  Try it again on the morrow.  You will find a Myrish mirror in the vaults.  Train before it an hour every day.  Eyes, nostrils, cheeks, ears, lips, learn to rule them all."  He cupped her chin.  "Who are you?"

Arya uses the mirror to help changer her identity, to become "no one".  She also uses it to help her in her request for revenge.

This makes me think about another figure who is forced to gaze into his reflection constantly, Winterfell's weirwood tree.  The tree and the face stands over a black pool constantly reflecting the weirwood's image, but reflecting that image darkly. 

It is a significant image in one of Bran's visions:

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At the heart of the godswood, the great white weirwood brooded over its reflection in the black pool, its leaves rustling in a chill wind.  When it felt Bran watching, it lifted its eyes from the still waters and stared back at him knowingly.

Now what is the weirwood seeing as it stares into its reflection?  In another Bran POV we see

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Hodor knew Bran's favorite place, so he took him to the edge of the pool beneath the great spread of the heart tree, where Lord Eddard used to kneel to pray.  Ripples were running across the surface of the water when they arrived, making the reflection of the weirwood shimmer and dance. 

Shimmering and dancing, makes me think of the very first prequel chapter and our introduction to the Others.

Quote

The Other slid forward on silent feet.  In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen.  No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade.  It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on.  There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor. 

Ser Waymar met him bravely.  "Dance with me then."

I've long believed that the Others are a magical creation of frozen air.  BC recently asked me who I thought would have created them.  I wonder perhaps if its not who, but what?

[LmL]

15 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

I like this.  It dovetails nicely into one of Arrya's training regimes to become a faceless man, or "no one". 

Arya uses the mirror to help changer her identity, to become "no one".  She also uses it to help her in her request for revenge.

This makes me think about another figure who is forced to gaze into his reflection constantly, Winterfell's weirwood tree.  The tree and the face stands over a black pool constantly reflecting the weirwood's image, but reflecting that image darkly. 

It is a significant image in one of Bran's visions:

Now what is the weirwood seeing as it stares into its reflection?  In another Bran POV we see

Shimmering and dancing, makes me think of the very first prequel chapter and our introduction to the Others.

I've long believed that the Others are a magical creation of frozen air.  BC recently asked me who I thought would have created them.  I wonder perhaps if its not who, but what?

There are only about a thousand quotes suggesting that the Others come from weirwoods in some sense. I am not sure exactly how that works, but I have been certain there is a link for a long time, as have many others I think, no pun intended. However, there are lots of scenes with fire shimmering and dancing, so I wouldn't call that a super strong link to the Others - I think there is a greater, larger dancing theme which all these examples play into. 

I like your point about the weirwood gazing into the dark mirror - it implies sorcery to me. The Mayans and other mesoamerican cultures used obsidian mirrors to practice magic, an idea which is clearly present in the glass candles. Is that black pond meant as a dark mirror? 

[Frey family reunion]

22 minutes ago, LmL said:

There are only about a thousand quotes suggesting that the Others come from weirwoods in some sense. I am not sure exactly how that works, but I have been certain there is a link for a long time, as have many others I think, no pun intended. However, there are lots of scenes with fire shimmering and dancing, so I wouldn't call that a super strong link to the Others - I think there is a greater, larger dancing theme which all these examples play into. 

I like your point about the weirwood gazing into the dark mirror - it implies sorcery to me. The Mayans and other mesoamerican cultures used obsidian mirrors to practice magic, an idea which is clearly present in the glass candles. Is that black pond meant as a dark mirror? 

The link between the fire and the Others is  that the shimmering and dancing fire is also the creator of "shadows".  The Others are shadows in their own right, (and are often referred to as such).  We've had other posters talk about the link between Melisandre's shadow assassins and the White Walkers.  I think both are similar creations. 

One of GRRM's favorite movies is Forbidden Planet.  He even has a life size Robbie the Robot prominently displayed in his home.  The invisible threat in Forbidden Planet is a "monster from the id".  A machine on the planet could construct anything that could be imagined.  What it ended up constructing was a menace born directly from one of the character's, Morbius,  "Id". 

Carl Jung termed the dark side of our personality as our shadow self, or simply our shadow.  Stannis' "Id" or shadow self was used in the creation of Melisandre's shadow assassin.  His dark impulse to kill his brother brought to life.  I think the White Walkers may be a similar magical creation bringing the Weirwood's darkest impulse magically to life.

ETA: I was thinking of the black pond, more of a dark reflection of the weirwood trees, their shadow selves.  It made me think of the famous biblical quote:

Quote

"For now we see through a glass, darkly."

Most seem to interpret glass as a mirror.  The Weirwood is gazing into a dark reflection of itself, its shadow, which dances and shimmers. 

[Black Crow]

23 minutes ago, LmL said:

There are only about a thousand quotes suggesting that the Others come from weirwoods in some sense. I am not sure exactly how that works, but I have been certain there is a link for a long time, as have many others I think, no pun intended. However, there are lots of scenes with fire shimmering and dancing, so I wouldn't call that a super strong link to the Others - I think there is a greater, larger dancing theme which all these examples play into. 

I like your point about the weirwood gazing into the dark mirror - it implies sorcery to me. The Mayans and other mesoamerican cultures used obsidian mirrors to practice magic, an idea which is clearly present in the glass candles. Is that black pond meant as a dark mirror? 

I think that the pond is indeed a dark mirror

[Black Crow]

3 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

The link between the fire and the Others is  that the shimmering and dancing fire is also the creator of "shadows".  The Others are shadows in their own right, (and are often referred to as such).  We've had other posters talk about the link between Melisandre's shadow assassins and the White Walkers.  I think both are similar creations. 

One of GRRM's favorite movies is Forbidden Planet.  He even has a life size Robbie the Robot prominently displayed in his home.  The invisible threat in Forbidden Planet is a "monster from the id".  A machine on the planet could construct anything that could be imagined.  What it ended up constructing was a menace born directly from one of the character's, Morbius,  "Id". 

Carl Jung termed the dark side of our personality as our shadow self, or simply our shadow.  Stannis' "Id" or shadow self was used in the creation of Melisandre's shadow assassin.  His dark impulse to kill his brother brought to life.  I think the White Walkers may be a similar magical creation bringing the Weirwood's darkest impulse magically to life.

 

I'm not so sure - although we're not so very far apart. On balance these days I'm inclined to see the walkers as shadows or even ghosts - of Craster's sons and others - given substance through ice. Or to put it another way ice golems animated by the life force of those babes and others.

Where the Id may come into this comes not from the trees but from those human spirits. The magic may have been known and used before but in creating the walkers as their winter soldiers the inhuman children of the forest didn't reckon with the darkness within the human soul.

[Frey family reunion]

8 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

I'm not so sure - although we're not so very far apart. On balance these days I'm inclined to see the walkers as shadows or even ghosts - of Craster's sons and others - given substance through ice. Or to put it another way ice golems animated by the life force of those babes and others.

Where the Id may come into this comes not from the trees but from those human spirits. The magic may have been known and used before but in creating the walkers as their winter soldiers the inhuman children of the forest didn't reckon with the darkness within the human soul.

I tend to believe that Craster and his sons do play a part in the creation.  The fact that we find children's bones in the mouth of the weirwood at Whitetree makes me believe that this may be linked to the creation of the White Walkers, through the sacrifice of human children.  A nod to Gehenna and Moloch, or Carthage and Cronus.  (In fact I think the same thing was about to happen at the tower of joy). 

As for the source of the id, yes I agree, I think the greenseers inside of the weirwoods, have basically created a hybrid being, with all of the dark impulses and need for vengeance that the human side provided.

[LmL]

I very much agree with viewing the black shadows mel makes as parallels to the white shadows which are the others. Furthermore, i subscribe to @Durran Durrandon's theory about Melisandre and the Corpse Queen of the NK being parallel as the mothers of these shadows, and of course Stannis and the NK have obvious parallels. Mel sucks the vitality from Stannis to make black shadows, and the NK gave his seed and soul to the CQ to make white shadows. Mel has warm skin and red star eyes, just as the CQ has cold skin and blue star eyes... this makes CQ not a wight or an Other, but an ice priestess who is transforming herself with 'ice magic' just as Mel is with fire magic. The transformed state of these two ladies seems to be what enables them to birth shadows, I would say. That is the difference between what crater and his wives are doing and what NK and the CQ were doing - CQ was a magical, icy being where Gilly is not. Craster's children need to be converted by the Others, but the NQ may have been able to do that herself. We can't know what the process is like, and we have to figure out how the CQ might relate to greenseers and weirwoods, but there is a clear parallel here with these shadow babies, certainly. 

I am a big fan of Forbidden Planet - one of my Dad's favs - and I recall it well. I agree martin is probably using the "monsters from the id" idea, though it had not occurred to me. Interesting that Stannis sort of dreamed the killing of Renly, you know? The idea that the Others are the weirwood id is interesting, I shall have to ponder that. I have entertained all sorts of ideas about how the Others might come from trees, with my current favorite being this: take Jon's assumed resurrection process of using Ghost as a soul jar and swap Ghostout for a wired. It seems possible Jon might merge with Ghost, and what will be brought back to Jon's body might be some sort of merged Jon-Ghost. What if the same happened with a greenest and a weirwood? Ghost symbolizes a weirwood, after all. Imagine a greener dying, going into the net for a few days, and then his body is raised, and somehow his spirit is put back in - but some of the weirwoodnet comes along. You 'd have a tree bodysnatching a person. What if you created ice body golems out of the NK and CQ babies and put some weirwoodnet / greenseer intelligence in there? Something like that? 

[Armstark]

33 minutes ago, LmL said:

There are only about a thousand quotes suggesting that the Others come from weirwoods in some sense. I am not sure exactly how that works, but I have been certain there is a link for a long time, as have many others I think, no pun intended. However, there are lots of scenes with fire shimmering and dancing, so I wouldn't call that a super strong link to the Others - I think there is a greater, larger dancing theme which all these examples play into. 

I like your point about the weirwood gazing into the dark mirror - it implies sorcery to me. The Mayans and other mesoamerican cultures used obsidian mirrors to practice magic, an idea which is clearly present in the glass candles. Is that black pond meant as a dark mirror? 

I think I know how it works  

A Heart Tree is a vessel to store souls, to gather the wisdom of past generations and to guide future generations. Together these souls make up the identity of the particular Heart Tree. The one at Winterfell has the face of a Stark because that's what has been buried beneath it for thousands of years. That is also why no one but the Starks can ever truly own Winterfell, because the tree is a Stark.

The Lord of Winterfell would always be a Stark.
He remembered their godswood; the tall sentinels armored in their grey-green needles, the great oaks, the hawthorn and ash and soldier pines, and at the center the heart tree standing like some pale giant frozen in time. He could almost smell the place, earthy and brooding, the smell of centuries, and he remembered how dark the wood had been even by day. That wood was Winterfell. It was the north. I never felt so out of place as I did when I walked there, so much an unwelcome intruder. He wondered if the Greyjoys would feel it too. The castle might well be theirs, but never that godswood. Not in a year, or ten, or fifty.

The only way to truly conquer Winterfell is to burn the godswood. But I disgress, back to topic: the link between Others and Heart Trees.

I believe the Others and their Heart of Winter are a bastardization of the Heart Tree concept. An evil twist of the CotF magic, used to store souls that are not truly dead but waiting for generations to strike, to leave the Heart of Winter and gain living bodies once again, to achieve immortality. And I believe we have seen something similar before in the HotU.

 

[LmL]

1 minute ago, Armstark said:

I think I know how it works  

A Heart Tree is a vessel to store souls, to gather the wisdom of past generations and to guide future generations. Together these souls make up the identity of the particular Heart Tree. The one at Winterfell has the face of a Stark because that's what has been buried beneath it for thousands of years. That is also why no one but the Starks can ever truly own Winterfell, because the tree is a Stark.

The Lord of Winterfell would always be a Stark.
He remembered their godswood; the tall sentinels armored in their grey-green needles, the great oaks, the hawthorn and ash and soldier pines, and at the center the heart tree standing like some pale giant frozen in time. He could almost smell the place, earthy and brooding, the smell of centuries, and he remembered how dark the wood had been even by day. That wood was Winterfell. It was the north. I never felt so out of place as I did when I walked there, so much an unwelcome intruder. He wondered if the Greyjoys would feel it too. The castle might well be theirs, but never that godswood. Not in a year, or ten, or fifty.

The only way to truly conquer Winterfell is to burn the godswood. But I disgress, back to topic: the link between Others and Heart Trees.

I believe the Others and their Heart of Winter are a bastardization of the Heart Tree concept. An evil twist of the CotF magic, used to store souls that are not truly dead but waiting for generations to strike, to leave the Heart of Winter and gain living bodies once again, to achieve immortality. And I believe we have seen something similar before in the HotU.

 

I agree the HOTU is meant as a parallel to the Others - the blue shadow heart and their nature as blue shadows seems like a clear enough hint. Sounds like we are all beating around the same bush here. The question is how does the creation process work?

[LynnS]

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran II

All around him, wights were rising from beneath the snow.

Two, three, four. Bran lost count. They surged up violently amidst sudden clouds of snow. Some wore black cloaks, some ragged skins, some nothing. All of them had pale flesh and black hands. Their eyes glowed like pale blue stars.

I've wondered if the wights are animated by St.Elmo's Fire.

Quote

 

If you were to look outside your home during a thu­nderstorm and see a tall streetlamp glowing with­ blue flames, you might be tempted to call the fire department. Then you might notice that the streetlamp is on fire but isn't actually burning -- and the water from the fire hose isn't putting out the flames. The phenomenon you're witnessing is actually St. Elmo's Fire

 

St. Elmo's Fire is a weather phenomenon involving a gap in electrical charge. It's like lightning, but not quite. And while it has been mistaken for ball lightning, it's not that, either -- and it's definitely not fire.

 

Quote

Characteristics

St. Elmo's fire is a bright blue or violet glow, appearing like fire in some circumstances, from tall, sharply pointed structures such as lightning rods, masts, spires and chimneys, and on aircraft wings or nose cones. St. Elmo's fire can also appear on leaves and grass, and even at the tips of cattle horns.^[5] Often accompanying the glow is a distinct hissing or buzzing sound. It is sometimes confused with ball lightning.

In 1751, Benjamin Franklin hypothesized that a pointed iron rod would light up at the tip during a lightning storm, similar in appearance to St. Elmo's fire.^[6][7]

Cause

St. Elmo's fire is a form of matter called plasma, which is also produced in stars, high temperature flame, and by lightning. The electric field around the object in question causes ionization of the air molecules, producing a faint glow easily visible in low-light conditions. Conditions that can generate St. Elmo's fire are present during thunderstorms, when high voltage differentials are present between clouds and the ground underneath. A local electric field of approximately 100 kV/m is required to induce a discharge in air. The magnitude of the electric field depends greatly on the geometry (shape and size) of the object. Sharp points lower the necessary voltage because electric fields are more concentrated in areas of high curvature, so discharges preferably occur and are more intense at the ends of pointed objects.

The nitrogen and oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere cause St. Elmo's fire to fluoresce with blue or violet light; this is similar to the mechanism that causes neon lights to glow

Which also begs the question of why Hodor is always humming and why he's so afraid of thunder storms.

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

Carl Jung termed the dark side of our personality as our shadow self, or simply our shadow.  Stannis' "Id" or shadow self was used in the creation of Melisandre's shadow assassin.  His dark impulse to kill his brother brought to life.  I think the White Walkers may be a similar magical creation bringing the Weirwood's darkest impulse magically to life.

I think you are on to something here. After all when Bran learned of the Childen's history he said that if it happened to humans that they would be "wroth" and want to kill their enemy. Do you suspect a division amongst the Children and/or the godhead? 

1 hour ago, LmL said:

CQ was a magical, icy being where Gilly is not. Craster's children need to be converted by the Others, but the NQ may have been able to do that herself. We can't know what the process is like, and we have to figure out how the CQ might relate to greenseers and weirwoods, but there is a clear parallel here with these shadow babies, certainly. 

The blood of Craster's children was likely the sacrifice and then the rest would be viewed as just meat. Makes sense to me!

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, LmL said:

Mel sucks the vitality from Stannis to make black shadows, and the NK gave his seed and soul to the CQ to make white shadows. Mel has warm skin and red star eyes, just as the CQ has cold skin and blue star eyes... this makes CQ not a wight or an Other, but an ice priestess who is transforming herself with 'ice magic' just as Mel is with fire magic. The transformed state of these two ladies seems to be what enables them to birth shadows, I would say. That is the difference between what crater and his wives are doing and what NK and the CQ were doing - CQ was a magical, icy being where Gilly is not. Craster's children need to be converted by the Others, but the NQ may have been able to do that herself. We can't know what the process is like, and we have to figure out how the CQ might relate to greenseers and weirwoods, but there is a clear parallel here with these shadow babies, certainly. 

A nice parallel inversion I would say....I think you could draw some conclusions regarding the process by wondering what the inversion would be? The ice priestess could remain human and non-magical like Gilly since that would be more of an inversion to a warm magical fire priestess. I like FFR's version that Craster's children are actually brought back to the cave and sacrificed. Nothing magical about that part. The transformation then is the use of the blood to feed the weirwoods into producing the white walker out of water and cold air.

[Black Crow]

1 hour ago, LmL said:

I agree the HOTU is meant as a parallel to the Others - the blue shadow heart and their nature as blue shadows seems like a clear enough hint. Sounds like we are all beating around the same bush here. The question is how does the creation process work?

Creation is probably the wrong word. I think that in both cases we are dealing with the power to bend shadows of the respective elements; Ice and Fire, into a simulacra of a human, then transfer a living soul into that simulacra; which fundamentally in magical terms probably isn't too far removed from transferring a soul from one living soul to another, ie; its just another form of skinchanging.

Now there are differences of course. Fire consumes. Mel's shadow babies don't last long because they are smoke animated by only a part of Stannis' soul. Craster's sons on the other hand are ice and animated out of whole cloth and young cloth at that, stinking of life.

[Armstark]

5 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I think you are on to something here. After all when Bran learned of the Childen's history he said that if it happened to humans that they would be "wroth" and want to kill their enemy. Do you suspect a division amongst the Children and/or the godhead? 

The blood of Craster's children was likely the sacrifice and then the rest would be viewed as just meat. Makes sense to me!

I think the babies are transformed and then warged by the old souls of the Heart of Winter. But there are many different ways this could work, all of them discussed here before most likely ^^. BC believes the babies are (become) the Others.

1 hour ago, LmL said:

I agree the HOTU is meant as a parallel to the Others - the blue shadow heart and their nature as blue shadows seems like a clear enough hint. Sounds like we are all beating around the same bush here. The question is how does the creation process work?

I guess the first question I would ask is: Whose heart was it before it became the Heart of Winter? But yes, the creation remains a mystery and I am not sure we have enough information to figure it out.

[Black Crow]

2 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

A nice parallel inversion I would say....I think you could draw some conclusions regarding the process by wondering what the inversion would be? The ice priestess could remain human and non-magical like Gilly since that would be more of an inversion to a warm magical fire priestess.

Again I'd see it more a matter of variation rather than inverstion. Mel and the other red priests appear to be Fire made flesh just as Craster's boys are Ice made flesh, and animated by complete rather than part souls.

Victarion appears to be in the process of transformation and I'll be curious to see whether the rest of him gradually turns into roast pork and crackling.

[LmL]

14 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I think you are on to something here. After all when Bran learned of the Childen's history he said that if it happened to humans that they would be "wroth" and want to kill their enemy. Do you suspect a division amongst the Children and/or the godhead? 

The blood of Craster's children was likely the sacrifice and then the rest would be viewed as just meat. Makes sense to me!

There are a lot of related scenarios we can imagine which would sort of make sense with the symbolism - martin has a real skill at foreshadowing without actually giving everything away.