Heresy 192 The Wheel of Time

[Melifeather]

Just now, Black Crow said:

Mormont was concerned, but what we're looking at here is Maester Aemon's lack of involvement.

I think you were posting the same time as I was editing an addition. I made the suggestion that perhaps Aemon's lack of involvement and excitement over Othor and Jafer was actually due to his knowledge? Is it possible that he was yet in communication with Bloodraven?

[Black Crow]

1 minute ago, Feather Crystal said:

Maester Lewin wanted to die bleeding into the heart tree at Winterfell. Why is that? Did the maesters learn something about feeding blood sacrifice to the weirwoods? What did he think would happen? Is it possible that his blood is responsible for the Ghost in Winterfell?

Ah not quite, this might originate in the mummers' version but its not in the book. What GRRM actually wrote was that Maester Lewin was found where he had crawled towards the pool, presumably in search of water. The heart tree is never mentioned.

[LynnS]

58 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

The battle for the Dawn is the Watch's greatest victory, still celebrated in song; yet they have no feast day and no records of it.

I suspect that any records concerning the white walkers etc, were shuffled off to the Citadel when the Night's King was defeated.  Not just that his name was stricken from the records; but that they were deliberately removed.  I've always found it suspicious that Luwin knows more than he says about the stories and legends beyond the Wall; that this is part of the education maesters undertake when they earn the valyrian rod, mask and ring.  Considering that Luwin must be pressed to reveal anything to Bran unless contradicted by Osha.   I wonder if they undertake a vow not to speak of it when they are chained.  I fully expect that there is a secret library at the Citadel.  It's odd that Luwin chooses to die at the base of the Winterfell heart tree.  He's not the unbeliever that he pretends to be.  Did Aemon has the valyrian steel ring as well? 

We don't know much about the significance of the rod, mask and ring either.  Quaithe and the cult of starry wisdom comes to mind.

[Black Crow]

48 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I suspect that any records concerning the white walkers etc, were shuffled off to the Citadel when the Night's King was defeated.  Not just that his name was stricken from the records; but that they were deliberately removed.  I've always found it suspicious that Luwin knows more than he says about the stories and legends beyond the Wall; that this is part of the education maesters undertake when they earn the valyrian rod, mask and ring.  Considering that Luwin must be pressed to reveal anything to Bran unless contradicted by Osha.   I wonder if they undertake a vow not to speak of it when they are chained.  I fully expect that there is a secret library at the Citadel.  It's odd that Luwin chooses to die at the base of the Winterfell heart tree.  He's not the unbeliever that he pretends to be. 

Aaah, as I said, he doesn't go to the heart tree to die, not in the book anyway.

I'm rather more inclined to suspect that either there was no battle for the Dawn, or, with a heavy nod to history repeating itself, it occurred far more recently than people think.

[Matthew.]

2 hours ago, Black Crow said:

What Shizzet and I were discussing was the apparent lack of interest by Maester Aemon; who ought to have been interested.

Neither interest nor apathy are established. Beyond Aemon having sent Sam to be his "eyes" on Othor and Jaffer's bodies, the only other time Aemon appears from that point forward is to speak to Jon of his personal history as a member of House Targaryen, in relation to Jon's current struggle over whether he should stay in the Watch, or go to help Robb with his cause. Just because there was no expository scene involving Aemon's thoughts on the matter, that doesn't mean he didn't have some.

Unfortunately, he's in the same position as everyone else, and knows very little about the enemy. This is part of the reason the great ranging was deemed necessary.

 

3 hours ago, Black Crow said:

The battle for the Dawn is the Watch's greatest victory, still celebrated in song; yet they have no feast day and no records of it.

Some of us have, in the past, speculated that there may be documents that were purposely stolen or destroyed, with either Mance of Bloodraven as potential suspects for brothers that might have looked through the archives, and perhaps found something of personal interest.

Nonetheless, there are only no "records" of the Battle for the Dawn in the same way that there are no records of anything from the Age of Heroes. There is, on the other hand, songs and an oral history, talk of dragonglass, as well as the Last Hero and his blade of dragonsteel.

[Matthew.]

The Battle for the Dawn is a tricky one, because it's technically possible that there was both a "Battle for the Dawn," and yet that this was not in itself the decisive reason that the Others disappeared; eg, there was organized resistance and skirmishes, yet the ultimate reason for the Others retreating/disappearing/whatever happened behind the scenes.

[Black Crow]

And with that its time to close Heresy 192 and move on to Heresy 193 and Winterfell

 

See you all over there