Daemon The Black Dragon Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I thought Craster wasn't the only one giving his son's to the WW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 On 10/9/2017 at 1:44 PM, Daemon The Black Dragon said: I thought Craster wasn't the only one giving his son's to the WW. The Night's King. He too was a Stark. Craster is the only one in the time period of the story to negotiate this kind of deal with the WW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 19 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said: Craster is the only one in the time period of the story to negotiate this kind of deal with the WW. We don't know this for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the trees have eyes Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 6 hours ago, Apoplexy said: We don't know this for sure. Ttue but we have seen a lot of the Wildlings since Jon joined Mance's host and have been given a good insight into their practices, diverse as they are, from Ygritte, Mance, Tormund, Val and the like. Craster is the only one we have seen to take this path and they don't talk of any others following suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon The Black Dragon Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 15 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said: The Night's King. He too was a Stark. Craster is the only one in the time period of the story to negotiate this kind of deal with the WW. We don't know if the NK was a Stark. Some Wildlings worship ice gods, those could just be WW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Old Nan says the NK was a Stark. It would make sense because only the prideful Starks who governed the north could erase this fact from history to hide the shame of their house. The Starks are the "ice" in this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the trees have eyes Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Widowmaker 811 said: Old Nan says the NK was a Stark. It would make sense because only the prideful Starks who governed the north could erase this fact from history to hide the shame of their house. The Starks are the "ice" in this story. Thing is she is telling a spooky story to a young child. Who's to say there isn't a story teller in every castle in the north saying to their young charges "and some say he was a Bolton/Glover/Tallhart/[applicable House]" to make the story more exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 The "craster is a stark" people and the "craster is a casterly" people should fight to the pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 On 10/17/2017 at 0:27 PM, the trees have eyes said: Thing is she is telling a spooky story to a young child. Who's to say there isn't a story teller in every castle in the north saying to their young charges "and some say he was a Bolton/Glover/Tallhart/[applicable House]" to make the story more exciting. Could be but it makes sense for the NK to be a Stark. Only the Starks could cover up something like that and erase the shame from memory. We have no proof yet but there seems to be a connection between the Starks and the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 On 12/4/2016 at 7:13 PM, Yukle said: The name Stark is from the Old Tongue of the First Men. Craster's name probably is, too, given he is of the Free Folk. He speaks the Andal tongue, as most Free Folk near the Wall seem to do, implying that the people of the North have been trading and having children with Wildings for centuries. Craster would almost certainly have Stark blood - but simply by virtue of that fact that House Stark has ruled for thousands of years. But that's just an application of logic, I don't think there's any narrative significance to this. They're not special to the Others. The behaviour of the Others does not suggest that they are targeting Craster specifically, they just seem to enjoy the bargain of getting more children in exchange for leaving him be. It's true that other Free Folk don't do this as far as we know, But other than Hardholme, they don't have permanent settlements which would require them to. Craster's sacrifices were his means of defending himself when it was just him to hold the line. Craster's boys are special enough and valued enough that the Others tolerate Craster. Some fans tried to turn this around and pointed to Bloodraven as a possible father to Craster. The problem is, Bloodraven is pale, with the albino gene. With the closed breeding program going at Craster's Keep, some of those girls would have been albino. Yet, none have been specifically mentioned. So Bloodraven is very unlikely to be Craster's father. I agree with Noble Lothar, Craster is a Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 On 17/10/2017 at 1:27 PM, the trees have eyes said: Thing is she is telling a spooky story to a young child. Who's to say there isn't a story teller in every castle in the north saying to their young charges "and some say he was a Bolton/Glover/Tallhart/[applicable House]" to make the story more exciting. This. And she's telling a story to a boy who is particularly fond of scary stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reekazoid Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 On 12/5/2016 at 0:58 AM, Damon_Tor said: Yes, that's the literal reason it's said (twice, by two different characters) that his "blood is black". I believe it's also foreshadowing of a Craster/Lord Commander Hoare connection. Their blood is simply too common for the word "special" no matter. Tracking who has Stark blood isn't interesting because it turns out every noble family in the North has some. The idea that Craster has Stark blood is uninteresting for that reason. What if you're both right? Stark blood as in surname Stark of the Winterfell Starks, isn't any more special than any other northern noble blood, but it's northern noble blood they seek. Craster would likely have plenty of it if he were the son of a noble born Brother. In my opinion the Other in the opening scene of AGoT seemed much more interested in young Waymar Royce than in either of his companions. Even to the point of attempted communication. For all we know, the Others may not even consider non-special-blood-having humans to be "people". Sure it's a major stretch but for all his disdain of transmural civilization Craster does exhibit some noble (in the sociological rather than the literary sense of the word) traits and seems to have at least part of a foot planted in their world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the trees have eyes Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 On 15/11/2017 at 5:29 PM, Widowmaker 811 said: Could be but it makes sense for the NK to be a Stark. Only the Starks could cover up something like that and erase the shame from memory. We have no proof yet but there seems to be a connection between the Starks and the Others. It makes sense for the NK to be from any noble House. If the duty of supplying the LC of the NW fell to the Starks every time they would have to be a very large family to support the constant loss of male children. This is not a conspiracy theory or a cover up, it's a recount of legendary, near mythological events that happened thousands of years ago. Large passages of time have a habit of blurring things, e.g. the fact that no one believes the Others or Children of the Forest still exist or that the Night King was any more real than the thing that came in the night. I don't see any connection between the Starks or Others in story, just some musings on the forums about the Stark House policy "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" and speculation about Craster's identity (which seems based on nothing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Fenimore Cooper XXII Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 On 3/28/2018 at 8:05 PM, Tour De Force said: Some fans tried to turn this around and pointed to Bloodraven as a possible father to Craster. The problem is, Bloodraven is pale, with the albino gene. With the closed breeding program going at Craster's Keep, some of those girls would have been albino. Yet, none have been specifically mentioned. So Bloodraven is very unlikely to be Craster's father. I agree with Noble Lothar, Craster is a Stark. Yup, I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reekazoid Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 On 12/5/2016 at 0:44 PM, Black Crow said: I'm inclined to see Craster as something akin to a sin-eater. Oh this is good! Yes that rings true somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 On 3/28/2018 at 8:05 PM, Tour De Force said: Craster's boys are special enough and valued enough that the Others tolerate Craster. Some fans tried to turn this around and pointed to Bloodraven as a possible father to Craster. The problem is, Bloodraven is pale, with the albino gene. With the closed breeding program going at Craster's Keep, some of those girls would have been albino. Yet, none have been specifically mentioned. So Bloodraven is very unlikely to be Craster's father. I agree with Noble Lothar, Craster is a Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lord of the Crossing Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 On 10/9/2017 at 1:44 PM, Daemon The Black Dragon said: I thought Craster wasn't the only one giving his son's to the WW. Craster is the only one we know of that made this deal with the WW. Well, the NK back in the old days. The NK is said to be a Stark. So something about those two men's DNA that make their off springs useful to the WW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the trees have eyes Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 On 10/04/2018 at 1:21 AM, Noble Lothar Frey said: Craster is the only one we know of that made this deal with the WW. Well, the NK back in the old days. The NK is said to be a Stark. So something about those two men's DNA that make their off springs useful to the WW. All we know is that Craster is prepared to make this deal. This doesn't tell us that his blood is special in some way, it simply tells us he makes decisions (sacrificing his own children) that most people would baulk at. Given he's been dead for several books I don't see anything in his ancestry that is plot relevant or even informative. He gave us a clue about the nature of the Others but that was it ("They'll be here soon, the sons") and his story is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seams Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 1 hour ago, the trees have eyes said: All we know is that Craster is prepared to make this deal. This doesn't tell us that his blood is special in some way, it simply tells us he makes decisions (sacrificing his own children) that most people would baulk at. Given he's been dead for several books I don't see anything in his ancestry that is plot relevant or even informative. He gave us a clue about the nature of the Others but that was it ("They'll be here soon, the sons") and his story is done. His son and daughter/wife Gilly are still alive, so the ancestry lives on through them. I doubt his story is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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