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Pokemon Go: Generation 2

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Had a few days off, except one spin and one catch to keep the streaks going.  Alex got his first ever item, an Upgrade.  Too bad he has never even seen a Polygon. :lol:

But my deal settled last week, so I should be able to get to the park all this week. I think I still need 8 or 9 more MagiKarps.

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Polygons are the Loch Ness Monster of this game...they supposedly exist, but no one actually sees them... :P

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Sadly, I got another up-grade for my 7 day spin, and I will have to walk my Porygon to get the candy I need to evolve it. I had two of them and deleted one because it was such a miserable one I didn't want to be tempted to up-grade it. Damn it, but well ok, I need to catch more Porygons anyway. But a few hours later I got a third up-grade, for crying out loud, and now I'm kicking myself for doing that.

ETA: Just looked, and it turns out that while intended to delete one, I didn't after al. Whew! But I still need more candy, and hopefully I'll find another few of them, and a better ones. Or hatch one.

I did an evolve last night and got my Poliwag, which is quite ugly-cute. :)  But I need more candy to evolve my two Sun Stones, and I don't have either a Metal Coat or a Dragon Scale.

I also used all of my pinaps and almost all of my poke balls. :P

Oh, and I now have 214k points, only another 536k to make it to Level 33! :o 

 

Edited by Fragile Bird

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When I did my evolve last night, I made some notes comparing Pokémon and the reason why you start checking IVs.

Pokémon - Rank - CP - HP - Dust required - Attributes - Maximum - Average - Minimum

Squirtle   #2    413    58   2500   Att   73.7   62.6   48.9
Squirtle   #1    440    60   2500   Def  86.7% across the board

So, a 6% difference in CP but at least a 13% difference in IV at best and a 77% difference at worst. I did not waste Stardust to power it up for a reward of a 73.7% IV at best with the possibility of a big drop in IV.

Two close #1s.

Arbok     969   78   2500   Att and Def   86.7% across the board (so no changes if powered up)
Arbok     961   80   2500      HP             84.4   81.1   77.8

So, they are both Wonders but if I spend the dust on the second one, it won't go higher than 84.4% and could drop to 77.8%.

Three Golbats

Golbat   #2   1478   116   5000   Def    71.1   68.9   66.7
Golbat   #1   1476   117   5000    Att    82.2   67.4   60
Golbat    #1  1391   114   4500    HP   93.2   92.2   91.1 

Obviously I would only spend valuable Stardust on the 3rd mon. If you power it up enough, you will get a final IV number at some point, so you have to be careful about the range. I was very disappointed once when a mon with a top range of 95.6 dropped to 84.4 after powering up.

Comparing close CP Vileplumes

Vileplume   #3   1381   103   3000   HP         64.4   63.2   62.2
Vileplume   #1   1348   97     2500   Att Def   97.8% across the board
Vileplume   #1   1323   98     2500   HP         86.7% across the board

The big difference is the rank.

An example of how low you can go and how high.

Starmie   #4   1399   81   3500   Att/Def/HP   26.7% across the board
Starmie   #1   1303   79   2500   Att/HP          93.3% across the board
***Starmie   #2   1274   78   2500   HP                100% across the board

So as you can see, if as a rule of thumb you just decide to keep the highest CP, you kept the worst Starmie ever and you threw out a perfect Starmie! Being 26.7 across the board means that it would never improve, no matter how much Stardust you threw at it. If you can't be bothered with IVs, at the very least look at the team leader's assessment and keep your 1s and 2s and throw out your 3s and 4s!

The scores will show similar differences no matter what the type of Pokémon.

***I first marked this as a #1, but the remarkable thing is that it's a #2, which supposedly means it shouldn't be above an 80! Don't believe it!  I try to check all my 1s and 2s, because there can be surprises lurking there. I even occasionally check 3s, but I have, rarely though, found a decent 3. But very rarely.

 

 

Edited by Fragile Bird

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Though I am trying, I don't understand any of what you just said, FB...

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42 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Though I am trying, I don't understand any of what you just said, FB...

On the previous page or two I set out the list of rankings from lowest to highest. When you look at a Pokemon you have just caught, hit the green circle with the lines in it in the lower right hand corner. Three line items come up, Favorite, Appraise and Transfer. When you touch Appraise, the Team Leader pops up and tells you they can analyze the Pokemon. When you touch the dialogue box, she tells you the rank of your Pokemon, the most important fact to know if you are not going to do anything else! If you are Team Mystic, the Blue Team, 1st is Wonder, 2nd is Certainly caught my attention, the 3rd is Above Average and the 4th is Not likely to make headway in battle. If you are not Blue, the ranks are different.  See here.

You really can't find a decent fighter in ranks 3 and 4. Discard them! Keep your 1s and 2s!  You only have so much bag space, you may as well keep the good ones! I only keep the lesser ones when I am about to do an evolve and I have the points to evolve everything I can catch. Then I discard the 3s and 4s.

She also then goes on to tell you what attributes the mon has, like Attack, or Defense, or HP, or even all three of them. Then she tells you how good the mon's statistics are, from incredible to maybe ok. Again, each team uses different language. Finally she tells you how big, or tiny, the mon is.

Those statistics will add up to tell you what it's over-all power is, in percentage form. The over-all power can range from 0% (the lowest I have ever seen is 10%) all the way to 100%. I have a 100% and several that are very high 90s. These are the strongest Pokémon for fighting with. The most deeply addicted players study which mon are better against other mon, because they are into battles. I'm not, at this point in time, so I haven't gone that next step. But you can see in the last couple of pages discussions about what Pokémon are best to use against certain others. Right now I am not fighting, I will get into that later.

Or, you can just keep the highest numbers and say screw it. :lol: 

I'll repeat the link to the IV calculator I use. It takes time to check IVs, and I put the numbers in the nickname so I can tell what to keep and what to throw out after an evolve, because I don't want to keep adding more and more bag space. Right now I have room for 400, having added 50 for the new generation, but I may need to add another 50. https://pokeassistant.com/main/ivcalculator

Edited by Fragile Bird

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On 3/23/2017 at 10:51 PM, Baitac said:

I was finally able to evolve my Wartortle to get a Blastoise. Missing/will probably never get: Charizard, Machamp, Lapras, and Dragonite. Chansey is dead to me. Still walking my Omanyte. Yesterday I evolved and got a Croconaw, a Quagsire, and an Ursaring. Caught 191/201. I wants the itemz!

You never know.  I had a Charizard just appear one day.  Mind you, it's low CP and kinda crappy, but it's MINE.  A Machamp is possible, given that I see Machops from time to time.  I have a Machoke.  One day maybe I'll have a Venusaur and Blastoise.  And I really want an Arcanine, Gyrados (getting closer!), Snorlax and Lapras (none of which seem like they will happen).

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2 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

SNIP!

FB, I do get a lot of that, but the system is far too much of a pain in the add.  Having to go back and forth to decipher what the trainer is telling you and comparing that to a calculator on a separate website.  It's far more complicated than it needs to be. THAT is my actual, main issue.  If the Pokemon is strong, just tell me and give me a numerical figure to go with it.  I have appraised my biggest CP Pokemon, some seem to be decent based on what's being said.  But if a Pokemon is telling supposed to be a "wonder" just tell me...

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12 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

FB, I do get a lot of that, but the system is far too much of a pain in the add.  Having to go back and forth to decipher what the trainer is telling you and comparing that to a calculator on a separate website.  It's far more complicated than it needs to be. THAT is my actual, main issue.  If the Pokemon is strong, just tell me and give me a numerical figure to go with it.  I have appraised my biggest CP Pokemon, some seem to be decent based on what's being said.  But if a Pokemon is telling supposed to be a "wonder" just tell me...

Lol, most games have complications....

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6 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

 

So, a 6% difference in CP but at least a 13% difference in IV at best and a 77% difference at worst.

 

But your logic here is reversed. Your saying the CP is only a little better, but the IV might be much, much better. So that 'mon is a much better one.

But, from my understanding, the IV isn't the stat that matters. The CP is the actual strength of the Pokemon. The IV just is an indicator of how high the CP can possibly get.

So, I'd reverse your statement and say, even though the IV might be as much as 77% better, the CP only ends up being 6% better. So, who gives a toss? Especially if we're talking about say... a 90% IV with 200 CP, versus a 60% with 800CP. Yes... the 90% one would end up with marginally better CP if and only if you spend the dust/candies to evolve power them up to the same level. But, are people really going to? Especially, for such a marginal increase in strength? If the answer is yes, then it would be worth it (eventually - it might take a long time to get the needed candies, meaning the 'mon is weaker for a long time). If people simply can't be bothered with all the effort for a marginal improvement, then stick with the higher CP.

 

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26 minutes ago, AndrewJ said:

But your logic here is reversed. Your saying the CP is only a little better, but the IV might be much, much better. So that 'mon is a much better one.

But, from my understanding, the IV isn't the stat that matters. The CP is the actual strength of the Pokemon. The IV just is an indicator of how high the CP can possibly get.

So, I'd reverse your statement and say, even though the IV might be as much as 77% better, the CP only ends up being 6% better. So, who gives a toss? Especially if we're talking about say... a 90% IV with 200 CP, versus a 60% with 800CP. Yes... the 90% one would end up with marginally better CP if and only if you spend the dust/candies to evolve power them up to the same level. But, are people really going to? Especially, for such a marginal increase in strength? If the answer is yes, then it would be worth it (eventually - it might take a long time to get the needed candies, meaning the 'mon is weaker for a long time). If people simply can't be bothered with all the effort for a marginal improvement, then stick with the higher CP.

 

Here's an answer from a Reddit thread, where someone asked if he should evolve a Poliwag with a higher CP or a higher IV. Essentially, the higher the IV, the higher you will be able to power it up.

High IVs can't make up the difference of having a bad or the worst moveset. A mid-low IV mon at 2000 CP could have around 2200 CP at the same level if it has high IVs. If you have Stardust to spare and lots of candy go for the high IV candidate. If candy is sparse and you want to have a high CP mon now, you are better off evolving the higher level mon. If you end up with the worst moveset, it might be a wash anyway. I'm guessing your 440 Poliwag is a level 20 hatched from an egg. If I guess your level around 29, at 501 your high level Poliwag is near the very bottom. Once evolved it would end up around 1800 without much room to grow until you level up. The 440 Poliwag would end up as a 1400-1450 Poliwrath but with a potential over 2000 CP once you power it up to your level.

But there are other issues. First of all, the person who asked the original question said he had read that Pokémon with THE SAME CP would only have a 10% difference in IV no matter what rank they were. That's totally untrue, and that was the question I was answering. What to do if you have an 800 CP mon and a 200 CP mon is a totally different question. :)

For example, I have kept a Scyther with a CP of 1977 (IV of 60) and 3rd place rank just to have it, because my 2nd rank Scyther has a CP of only 742(IV of 73.3). That really pissed me off, because I hatched it out of a 10k egg, and bloody hell, anything you hatch out of a 10k egg should be of 1st rank. And I'm not going to power it up until I find a Scyther nest, which are pretty rare in my neck of the woods. I'm not going to use the Scyther candies to power up the small one, which turned out to be a wise move because now I can evolve it, once I get the special item required. But then I'll be left with 39 candy, and where will that get me? Up to a CP of 1000? I'd rather wait and try and get a better Scyther. At one point when there was a nest I caught a total of 22, many of them in the 1200 to 1900 range and all of them 4th rank. I kept the best one and ditched the rest.

But in any event, a Scyther is not one of the top 10 Pokémon to use in a fight, so why waste the dust?

The top 3 gym defenders are Snorlax, Dragonite and Lapras. I have 2 Snorlax only and only 1 Lapras, I have never had the luck to stumble into a nest of either, and I don't yet have a Dragonite, Both Snorlax are wonders with one near perfect at a 95.6 IV. The Lapras is a pig, but it's a Lapras.

The next level are Slowbro, Poliwrath, Exxeggutor, Wigglytuff and Vaporeon. I have collected many of them or the Pokémon needed to evolve them, and along the way found lots of high CP 1st and 2nd rank mon and threw out the 3s and 4s as I surpassed their CPs.

Next are Venusaur and Omastar, and I have top ranked mon there as well.

Chart

My best Arcanine is 2nd rank, but with a CP of 1911 I'm going to keep it, because they're rare around here and I'm not going to use up candy to power up my 1593 Wonder.

Actually, your question sounds like the question of a person at a much lower level than me (32). I'd say just have patience and keep collecting. :)

Frankly, it depends on your goals. If all you want to do us fight, hey, keep the high CPs, but you will win more battles if you pay attention to rank and keep the best mon. My goal is to have top ranked Pokémon of every single kind, plus 2nd ranked ones that have better IVs than my Wonders. Right now I'd say 95% of my Pokémon fit that description.

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Oh, and then there's the whole issue of moveset. My first goal is to get to Level 40. Along the way I want 1st and 2nd rank mon. Then I will search for the best movesets and winnow out and replace the less desirable movesets.

Edited by Fragile Bird

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Actually, my question was rhetorical. I was suggesting it was a question people should ask themselves when deciding which to keep. With the answer being, if you aren't going to be spending the candy/stardust to power up the higher IV/lower CP pokemon, then keep the higher CP one and turn the other into candy.

Level 30 here. (I hit level 29 a good 4-5 months ago but no longer play anywhere near as much as I used to)

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FB, unless someone has a good way to take down Blisseys, it is by far the strongest defender. I have some real problems with the 2900 ones, so I don't think I could take out a 3200. Every other max lvl pokemon is fine, Cloyster eats through Dragonite, Vaporeon owns any Rhydon/Tyranitar and so on, but Blissey is just a real pain.

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I've taken down 2600 Blisseys with my 2350 Machamp or my 2470 Alakazam - both work. My 2650 Rhydon should also work. 

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My Machamp is like 1600 ;) I'll have a Dragonite in a few weeks, which I hope will do the trick, or if I luck out and evolve a good Espeon. Right now, I'll take down a 2900 Blissey with 1-2 sec left if I'm lucky with my dodging, not if not :D

Anyway, about IV and stuff. I just looked at my 1600 Cloyster, it has the 3rd or 4th rating, not sure which "won't make much headway in battle" is, but, it will take down a 2600 Dragonite no problem. I have a better Cloyster too so I only use it if I face multiple Dragonites, but I think making the right matchup and moveset is by far the most important factors, though I will obviously choose the wonder if I have two at similar CP.

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7 hours ago, Mikael said:

FB, unless someone has a good way to take down Blisseys, it is by far the strongest defender. I have some real problems with the 2900 ones, so I don't think I could take out a 3200. Every other max lvl pokemon is fine, Cloyster eats through Dragonite, Vaporeon owns any Rhydon/Tyranitar and so on, but Blissey is just a real pain.

Yes, I see them all over the place here as well.

I'm going to quote the whole link I found about fighting them, for information and for feedback:

Quote

Choose the attacker carefully
Ideally, you want a Pokemon that can do good DPS while also being good at tanking. You’ll see why in a moment. The perfect counters to Blissey would be:

  • Dragonite – A pretty obvious choice. Dragonite is one of the beastliest Pokemon in the game, so you really can’t go wrong by picking it. Use Dragon Breath and Dragon Claw for best results.
  • Gyarados – Might not be able to take as much punishment, but still a very valid choice. Especially if you use Dragon Breath + Hydro Pump or Bite + Hydro Pump. Your CP should be much higher than the Blissey’s, though.
  • Vaporeon – My absolute favorite pick. Vaporeon is just great all-around. It can both deal damage and take it, so it’s a good choice here. Water Gun and Hydro Pump is your best bet. Only dodge the charge attacks, as time is of the essence.
  • Machamp – Not the best of selections, unless it’s against a Pound + Hyper Beam Blissey, then it should be fine. Use Counter + Dynamic Punch. Either way, you’ll probably hurt the Blissey enough to be able to finish it off with your next attacker, especially if your Machamp has a very high CP. The biggest problem with all Fighting Pokemon, though, is that they’re very vulnerable to Blissey’s Psychic moves.
  • Donphan – One of the new ones, and a damn decent counter to a Blissey. Use Counter and Play Rough for best results.
  • Gengar – There’s two potential movesets you can use against Blissey. The first one is the Hex + Shadow Ball combo. Normally, this would be a deffensive moveset, but you can use it as an offense here. The other combo would be Hex + Sludge Bomb. Using one of these movesets will bring the Blissey down significantly, but your Gengar will probably die, so be prepared to follow up with another heavy hitter.
  • Espeon – Also one of the new ones. It’s an excellent pick, because it’s a psychic Pokemon. Because of that, it takes less damage from Psychic attacks. It’s fast and strong, and that’s what you need. However, you should probably stick to Psychic attacks for best results, such as Future Sight. As with Vaporeon, having a significantly higher CP will help you a lot.
  • Poliwrath – Using a combo of Bubble and Submission can do a very good number on Blissey, leaving you with plenty of room to finish it off with another heavy hitter. Props to Byrdebeast for giving us this one.
  • Other Pokemon that might do the trick are Alakazam, Ursaring, Rhydon and Golem and maybe Arkanine. Alakazam and Arkanine are actually excellent as followups to Vaporeon. Both Ryhdon and Golem do well with the Mud Slap, and the Golem also has Stone Edge, which deals very good damage.
  • Don’t waste time dodging
    You have a very limited amount of time to defeat Blissey, and it takes forever as is. Just ignore the quick attacks, and only dodge strong attacks if you’re in a dire situation.
  • Be very quick
    Keep spamming your quick moves and just don’t stop. Use your charge move immediately when it becomes available. The clock is your biggest enemy here.
  • Bring more people
    Don’t forget, you don’t have to fight alone. Ask people to help you take Blissey out. Together, you’ll deal more damage in less time, increasing your chances dramatically.
Edited by Fragile Bird

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3 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Yes, I see them all over the place here as well.

I'm going to quote the whole link I found about fighting them, for information and for feedback:

There's currently three 2900 CP Blisseys in my local gym, whoever knocks it down is gonna have to spend the better part of an hour..

About the list, I've tried a few of those and Vaporeon, though probably the most useful gym fighter in the game (I'd much rather be up against a 3000+ Dragonite than a 2800+ Vaporeon), is pretty useless imo. At least when at a CP disadvantage. It isn't that Blissey will win, it's that the time will run out, though in Vaporeons defense, I don't remember if I had realized that there's no time for dodging when I used it.

Gyarados is almost OK, mine at 2600 will almost get Blissey at 2900 halfway down before dieing and in about 50 sec, which isn't enough really.

I don't know about the rest, though I suspect that if you have a Gengar that's good enough to beat a good Blissey, you probably have a Dragonite or three as well..

I'm holding out for Dragonite and Espeon, however, for now, the only one I feel pretty confident about in my rooster is Flareon. Two Flareon at about 2100 will do the trick, if just barely, against a 2900 Blissey. 

I could probably get my Machamp up to 2000+, but it seems like a waste. My Alakazam isn't that good either, though it might be worth powering up since it has a fighting second, but I'll save the dust for something more exciting.

Btw, if you haven't really started gyming yet, then besides the heavy hitters, you wanna stack up on Vaporeons and Jolteons. Jolteon is a pure glass cannon but it will tear through all those water and ice types at the gym and Vaporeon is good at everything plus Rhydon and Tyranitar don't stand a chance.

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