Cumulative theory of the beginning

[aryagonnakill#2]

I am attempting to draw together a grand or cumulative theory of the dawn age leading up to the long night.  Unfortunately you cannot start a topic and save it then come back and keep working so as of right now I am using this to hold the place and working within the edit feature.  I intend this thread to culminate in predictions for the rest of the books, so I do feel it belongs here and not another sub forum.

Let me begin with listing some facts as we know them to be.

Before the First Men worshipped the Old Gods, they had elemental gods, of Sky and Water, or Storm and Drowned.  The Ironborn still believe in the Drowned God, and that his enemy is the Storm God.  It is said that the Grey King ruled the Iron Islands for a very long time and that he eventually just walked into the sea to live with the drowned god.  The Grey King was also said to have taken a mermaid to wife, and carved his longship of the demon tree Tygg which fed on human flesh.

COTF

The cotf have golden eyes, although we are told that they use to have greenseers with either green or red eyes, and that those greenseers lived shorter lives, as normal cotf live very long lives of at least hundreds of years.  They "sing of the song of the earth" and have powers to skinchange animals and see past present and future through the eyes of weirwood trees.  BR tells Bran he will not be limited by the trees in time.  They are also said to have the power to cause a "hammer of the waters" where they can crush land masses with enormous floods by using sacrifices. Osha tells Bran that the Old Gods answer his prayers with the wind saying "who do you think sends the wind?"  Later, Theon hears his name in the wind while in the gods wood of WF.

Giants

We know much less about Giants but know that they are vegetarians like the cotf, and are in the range of 15 ft tall.  We also know that they are an extremely old race.

We also know that the cotf and Giants often warred with each other, Leaf says "They were our bane..."  There is also the story of Gendel and Gorne who settled a feud between the two by tricking both, thats not really the point just that those races were feuding even after the wall was built.

Old Ones

The Maesters indicate that they have skeletal evidence of a race of humanoids in-between the size of humans and giants.  These skeletons were found on Lorath where there are underground "mazes".  These underground structures are made of undecorated fuzed stone which matches those found on Leng and the base of the Hightower at Oldtown.

On Leng there are many mysteries, but the locals refer to the beings who they believe still dwell in the underground fuzed stone structures as Old Ones.

The people of Leng are the tallest humans on earth, and there is some evidence of skinchanging going on.

There is a religion on Lorath of priests who cover their eyes to unlock their "3rd eye".

Deep Ones/Squishers

Nimble Dick refers to beings he calls "squishers" they have webbed hands and feet and come out of the sea to steal children then go back into the sea.

The legends of Lorath state that those who lived there were destroyed by a race from the sea.

Maester Theron suggests that the Deep Ones were the origin of the Drowned God religion, and that they are the result of some water race breeding with human women.

The people of the Thousand Isles are deathly afraid to go into the sea, and sacrifice humans to fish headed gods.

There is an island in the Basilisk islands with similar frog shaped statue gods with webbed hands and feet.

The Borrels of the 3 sisters in the Bite have webbed fingers and have supposedly had them for thousands of years.

Some legends of Garth the Greenhand have him appearing as a Mermaid.

Manderlies have a lot of mermaid symbolism.

Green Men

Now the green men are said to only live on the isle of faces.  In some legends they have antlers, and we are told that flocks of ravens will defend the isle of faces, along with freak storms from anyone who approaches the island that the green men do not wish to make it.  It is also said that the order of green men was formed when a pact was made between first men and cotf to end their conflict, this pact was sealed by carving a face into every tree on the island so that it could be witnessed by the gods.  After the pact was made the cotf and FM seem to have lived in peace, and are even said to have fought together against the Andals on some occasions.

 

Theory

My theory is that the ancient races all warred and made peaces with each other, that some sided with an against the humans, and that they interbred with each other to seal peaces just as humans now do, and all evolved from the Old Ones, who represent the GEOTD.  I also believe that the "blood betrayal" and Long Night were caused by a breaking of the peace, and that as a result of the breaking of the peace the COTF created the WW's to defend themselves.  I believe that during the Long Night the Old Ones and Deep Ones were almost if not entirely wiped out.

The first thing that put me onto this theory was the story of the Durrandons.  The house was said to be founded by Durran Godsgrief, who married the daughter of the sea god and the goddess of the wind, Elenei.  House Durrandons symbol is antlers, which the Green Men are said to have, and which I think are a cross between the COTF and the Deep Ones. I believe this match was made to secure a peace between the two, but that neither wanted the race that resulted to interbreed with humans, and that Elenei being a Green woman explains both the symbol of house Durrandon, and their dominant features.

 

 

Please feel free to post any facts about these ancient races that you feel I have missed.  As I said I am still working but all help is appreciated.

[Macgregor of the North]

Good idea this. 

I was reading on the Lorathi recently and the religion you speak of is of those who followed the Blind God 'Boash'.

Except the cult died died out more than a thousand years ago so I would change it to their "was" a religion of priests as they seem to be no more priests on Lorath who worship the Blind god Boash.

What I think was the point of these guys insertion to the World book though, was to give us some background to go with how Bran opened his third eye in the darkness of the Crypts at WF. Then the darkness of the cave is explained by BR to Bran as something he should embrace, not for a sinister purpose but simply to open his third eye more and heighten his powers.

And also Arya who was made blind opened her own third eye in Braavos, her own darkness surely helping this happen. 

I also like the theory of BR in the dark cells of KL having a moment where the darkness opens his third eye super wide and shows him some of these higher truths in a dream/vision perhaps and that pushes him to speak with Egg about having him sent to the Wall, or at least coming to the conclusion that the idea is not so bad as that's where he is destined to go. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

7 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Good idea this. 

I was reading on the Lorathi recently and the religion you speak of is of those who followed the Blind God 'Boash'.

Except the cult died died out more than a thousand years ago so I would change it to their "was" a religion of priests as they seem to be no more priests on Lorath who worship the Blind god Boash.

What I think was the point of these guys insertion to the World book though, was to give us some background to go with how Bran opened his third eye in the darkness of the Crypts at WF. Then the darkness of the cave is explained by BR to Bran as something he should embrace, not for a sinister purpose but simply to open his third eye more and heighten his powers.

And also Arya who was made blind opened her own third eye in Braavos, her own darkness surely helping this happen. 

I also like the theory of BR in the dark cells of KL having a moment where the darkness opens his third eye super wide and shows him some of these higher truths in a dream/vision perhaps and that pushes him to speak with Egg about having him sent to the Wall, or at least coming to the conclusion that the idea is not so bad as that's where he is destined to go. 

While idk if he talked to Egg about it, I had never considered that before and I think it's a pretty great idea.

[estermonty python]

Maybe I'm off base but I think the Old Ones/Deep Ones mythos isn't particularly important to the story.  GRRM has enough creativity and world-building in his own mind; he doesn't need to set his entire world within Lovecraftian mythos.  It seems to me that the Old Ones and Deep Ones are really just background world-building, function as an explanation for the religions that developed in places like the Iron Islands, and a little love letter/easter egg to Lovecraft and his fans.

[aryagonnakill#2]

52 minutes ago, estermonty python said:

Maybe I'm off base but I think the Old Ones/Deep Ones mythos isn't particularly important to the story.  GRRM has enough creativity and world-building in his own mind; he doesn't need to set his entire world within Lovecraftian mythos.  It seems to me that the Old Ones and Deep Ones are really just background world-building, function as an explanation for the religions that developed in places like the Iron Islands, and a little love letter/easter egg to Lovecraft and his fans.

I don't think they are important anymore either, but I do believe they helped shape the world, all the way up to the Long Night.

[estermonty python]

3 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I don't think they are important anymore either, but I do believe they helped shape the world, all the way up to the Long Night.

Fair enough!

[YOVMO]

4 hours ago, estermonty python said:

Maybe I'm off base but I think the Old Ones/Deep Ones mythos isn't particularly important to the story.  GRRM has enough creativity and world-building in his own mind; he doesn't need to set his entire world within Lovecraftian mythos.  It seems to me that the Old Ones and Deep Ones are really just background world-building, function as an explanation for the religions that developed in places like the Iron Islands, and a little love letter/easter egg to Lovecraft and his fans.

Agreed on this. While I like the theory in general, I do think old/deep ones are more an act of world building. having loads of things mentioned off hand which have no bearing on the story directly, but do have a bearing on the world they were a part of, even if the reader never gets It, is one of the things that makes asoiaf so tremendous. The several dozen stories which are interlacing to create the major story along with the dozens of minor stories which play supporting roles exist in a world that is so very lush specifically because of the dozens of more stories that simply will never be fleshed out. Further, I think there are some that DO directly effect current events that we still wont get a detailed explaination of because of the POV system and, further, I think this is terrific. We have never been allowed a god's eye view of this world and that is part of what makes it so great.

[LordImp]

What about the people " so ancient they had no name" who came from the Shadow and where the first dragonriders ?