US politics 2016: I can see Russia from my White House

[Kalbear]

23 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

You'll note I said the "right" answer, not the correct answer.

[Jaxom 1974]

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

 

Here in New Zealand we are separated from everyone in the country by just 2 degrees of separation. When you have that level of national familiarity you just can't afford to be pissing people off on a national scale, because invariably you will be causing harm to someone you know and care about. There's probably just a handful of modern, developed western democracies you can say that about. Finland is probably the other one that springs to mind most often. We are just a bit more multi-ethnic in population.

So wait, you know my best friend then?

What's up with the PM resigning the other day though?

[Dr. Pepper]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

 

 

The thing is that I know some pretty conservative people. And I know a few of them are pretty fond of children. But, what I often question is their policy preferences. Even if I know they are fond of children, I have hard time squaring that fondness with the policies they actually vote for and endorse. And I am going to be brutal in criticizing those policy preferences.

With regard to abortion, yes I do believe it's important for women, particularly poor women, to have access to safe and affordable abortion, when they need them. I do not want to go back to the bad old days when poor women had few choices, while the wealthy just flew their daughters to wherever to have an abortion performed.

I know conservative folks and I have reason to think they are fond of children and I always used to let it slide that they voted against that fondness and against the well being of children, and not just random unknown poor brown kids but explicitly against the interests of their own children.  I chose to ignore it, or think patronizingly about it figuring they were just too dumb to know better.  

I'm not letting it slide anymore.  Like you, I intend to be vocal and even brutal about showing them what they are voting for.  I'm not going to let anti-abortionists I know to continue to use the pro-life label without being vigorously challenged on how little of their policy preferences actually reflect a comprehensive pro-life worldview.  

I'm too lazy to quote the discussion upthread about the future status of Roe v. Wade.  Women won a victory this past year when the SCOTUS struck down a lot of the laws that were designed to close clinics and prevent access.  But since Trump's election, states are newly emboldened.  Roe v Wade may not be struck down but it will be whittled away until what OGE described above becomes the new/old reality for women.  Texas has passed a law that abortions and miscarriages be given a fucking funeral.  A clot of fucking blood must have a funeral whether the woman or family want it or not.  Ohio has passed a law that would effectively ban abortion as they say it can't happen after a heartbeat is detected, or about 6 weeks when most women aren't even aware they are pregnant.  Trump's SCOTUS picks are obviously not going to be ones in the business of protecting women's rights or Roe v Wade. 

Whittled down to being effectively useless.  The the anti-abortionists will cheer and go on to support more policies that fuck over children and future generations.  

[The Brandon Stark]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I know conservative folks and I have reason to think they are fond of children and I always used to let it slide that they voted against that fondness and against the well being of children, and not just random unknown poor brown kids but explicitly against the interests of their own children.  I chose to ignore it, or think patronizingly about it figuring they were just too dumb to know better.  

I'm not letting it slide anymore.  Like you, I intend to be vocal and even brutal about showing them what they are voting for.  I'm not going to let anti-abortionists I know to continue to use the pro-life label without being vigorously challenged on how little of their policy preferences actually reflect a comprehensive pro-life worldview.  

I'm too lazy to quote the discussion upthread about the future status of Roe v. Wade.  Women won a victory this past year when the SCOTUS struck down a lot of the laws that were designed to close clinics and prevent access.  But since Trump's election, states are newly emboldened.  Roe v Wade may not be struck down but it will be whittled away until what OGE described above becomes the new/old reality for women.  Texas has passed a law that abortions and miscarriages be given a fucking funeral.  A clot of fucking blood must have a funeral whether the woman or family want it or not.  Ohio has passed a law that would effectively ban abortion as they say it can't happen after a heartbeat is detected, or about 6 weeks when most women aren't even aware they are pregnant.  Trump's SCOTUS picks are obviously not going to be ones in the business of protecting women's rights or Roe v Wade. 

Whittled down to being effectively useless.  The the anti-abortionists will cheer and go on to support more policies that fuck over children and future generations.  

Ok. I'm more or less neutral on this issue, but your last sentence is just amazing. Which children are fucked over? The aborted ones? The future generations of abortees? Just a little dramatic since every pro-abortion person was actually born.

[Mexal]

Hey @Altherion - looks like Donald Trump has moved on from big CEOs and mass media to labor union heads, all because Chuck Jones had the audacity to call him out legitimately for telling lies about the amount of jobs that would be saved. Jones has said he's already starting to receive death threats since Trump tweeted. And then we have the PEOTUS blaming the labor union and by extension the workers for their jobs being moved to Mexico. So now that he's ignoring CEOs and ignoring the media, do you see a problem yet?

 

[Dr. Pepper]

1 minute ago, The Brandon Stark said:

Ok. I'm more or less neutral on this issue, but your last sentence is just amazing. Which children are fucked over? The aborted ones? The future generations of abortees? Just a little dramatic since every pro-abortion person was actually born.

Your reading comprehension is just amazing.  

The children.  The ones that are persons, not fetuses.  The ones these people vote repeatedly to fuck over once they leave a woman's woman and go from being a fetus to a person.  I've described this fucking over of children in several posts.

[The Brandon Stark]

4 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Hey @Altherion - looks like Donald Trump has moved on from big CEOs and mass media to labor union heads, all because Chuck Jones had the audacity to call him out legitimately for telling lies about the amount of jobs that would be saved. Jones has said he's already starting to receive death threats since Trump tweeted. And then we have the PEOTUS blaming workers for their jobs being moved to Mexico. So now that he's ignoring CEOs and ignoring the media, do you see a problem yet?

 

He is talking about the Union, not the workers. The Union's job is to create the best deal for its members, not move to other countries.

[Mexal]

Just now, The Brandon Stark said:

He is talking about the Union, not the workers. The Union's job is to create the best deal for its members, not move to other countries.

The union has no control over whether a parent company is going to close a factory to save $60 million dollars. It is not their fault they are getting screwed. And Trump specifically says "spend more time working, less time talking" which reads to me like he's blaming them for not working hard enough. I don't see how anyone can look at this and think it's ok. The PEOTUS is tweeting at a micro level against a labor union boss who does not matter in the grand scheme of things because he called him out correctly in public. And that labor union boss is getting death threats as a result. 

[The Anti-Targ]

1 minute ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

So wait, you know my best friend then?

What's up with the PM resigning the other day though?

There's a good chance I AM your best friend 

Depending on what you [want to] believe he either resigned because he's done all he wanted to do, wants to be with family more, wants to give a new leader plenty of lead time to be able to win the election in 2017, and didn't want to campaign as PM and give voters the impression he'd be PM for the whole of the 4th term, which would have been a lie. Or he resigned because he knows things are about to turn to shit and he doesn't want to have to front up and be the one answerable for things turning to shit.

The optimist in me wants to believe the first set of reasons. The cynic in me thinks the second reason might [also] be true. 

5 minutes ago, The Brandon Stark said:

Ok. I'm more or less neutral on this issue, but your last sentence is just amazing. Which children are fucked over? The aborted ones? The future generations of abortees? Just a little dramatic since every pro-abortion person was actually born.

I'm anti-abortion, but pro-abortion rights. A lot of people are like me. Our personal morality opposes abortion for the most part, with exceptions, but we also recognise that on this matter the laws of a constitutionally secular state have limited authority to dictate morality to its citizens.

[Dr. Pepper]

6 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Hey @Altherion - looks like Donald Trump has moved on from big CEOs and mass media to labor union heads, all because Chuck Jones had the audacity to call him out legitimately for telling lies about the amount of jobs that would be saved. Jones has said he's already starting to receive death threats since Trump tweeted. And then we have the PEOTUS blaming the labor union and by extension the workers for their jobs being moved to Mexico. So now that he's ignoring CEOs and ignoring the media, do you see a problem yet?

 

I caught the tail end of a Megyn Kelly interview on NPR and it was pretty good.   It touched on the issues of Trump's tweets setting off a firestorm that lead to death threats and harassment for those who challenge him.  She also spoke of his bullying of the media and the severe ramifications that will have for journalists going forward.  

I have to say that even in spite of Kelly's prejudice and racism, I've been impressed with her speaking up and challenging Trump and the things he represents as well as her defense of women who are harassed in the workplace.  

[The Anti-Targ]

51 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Of course it's not all sweetness and light here.

Quote

Three place names in North Canterbury considered to be offensive will be changed.

Ni**er Stream, near Arthur’s Pass, will now be Pukio Stream after a native grass.

Ni**erhead, above Lake Sumner, will be called Tawhai Hill after a species of native Beech Tree.

And Ni**er Hill, east of Arthur’s Pass, will be renamed Kanuka Hills after a species of native tea tree.

This is news just released today, and no it is not a "today in 1966" news history story. There was vocal, but minority, opposition to these changes. Then again, this is Canterbury which is about the only place you can go in New Zealand if you want to have a white Christmas.

[Altherion]

1 hour ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

But what you're claiming makes him special is that Republicans vote for Republicans which equals revolution? I think that is far more upsetting than a positive. It means a lizard man from Neptune has a built-in 60 million votes if he runs Republican. How is that a good thing? People don't vote their conscience, they vote their party?

It's not necessarily a good thing, but it does frighten people like Soros and the Koch brothers.

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, Altherion said:

It's not necessarily a good thing, but it does frighten people like Soros and the Koch brothers.

So what? Given his 'frightening' nature has so far been to give basically everything that the Koch brothers have ever wanted - kill the EPA, kill DoE, kill HUD, kill the ACA,  reduce taxes, reduce corporate taxes, and potentially give the states medicaid and medicare - what do they care if they're 'scared'. Hell, he's put into the treasury department a couple of hedge fund managers. If Koch is scared, the only reason why is because they could have gotten this result earlier and spent less money doing it.

How do you envision this revolt of the US happening? Because right now, it's increasingly looking like it simply won't happen. Putin has been in charge of Russia for 12 years - you think the US will give it up earlier than that?

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

12 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

How do you envision this revolt of the US happening? Because right now, it's increasingly looking like it simply won't happen. Putin has been in charge of Russia for 12 years - you think the US will give it up earlier than that?

Ah, c'mon. You're not seriously suggesting this is going to become a dictatorship, are you? 

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Ah, c'mon. You're not seriously suggesting this is going to become a dictatorship, are you? 

Yeah, I'm not sure Trump is competent enough to become a dictator.

I mean, he could have appointed a Real Estate Industry crony to HUD, but he appointed Ben Carson instead.

[felice]

55 minutes ago, Mexal said:

looks like Donald Trump has moved on from big CEOs and mass media to labor union heads, all because Chuck Jones had the audacity to call him out legitimately for telling lies about the amount of jobs that would be saved.

Chuck Jones would make a much better President of the other US than Trump...

[Altherion]

21 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

So what? Given his 'frightening' nature has so far been to give basically everything that the Koch brothers have ever wanted - kill the EPA, kill DoE, kill HUD, kill the ACA,  reduce taxes, reduce corporate taxes, and potentially give the states medicaid and medicare - what do they care if they're 'scared'. Hell, he's put into the treasury department a couple of hedge fund managers. If Koch is scared, the only reason why is because they could have gotten this result earlier and spent less money doing it.

How do you envision this revolt of the US happening? Because right now, it's increasingly looking like it simply won't happen. Putin has been in charge of Russia for 12 years - you think the US will give it up earlier than that?

I don't think Trump has done any of these things yet, but in any case, the issue is not Trump himself, but those who will follow him. Putin's situation is quite different from anything in the US. I am confident that if Trump fails to deliver decent jobs, he will not last past his first term.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Ah, c'mon. You're not seriously suggesting this is going to become a dictatorship, are you? 

I think there's some genuine danger there with the attacks on voting and on the press.  But I'm hopeful that the folks involved are too incompetent to pull it off.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

8 minutes ago, Triskan said:

I think there's some genuine danger there with the attacks on voting and on the press.  But I'm hopeful that the folks involved are too incompetent to pull it off.

I get the cynicism to a degree. This is certainly looking like the worst President I've seen in my lifetime and the guy hasn't even taken office yet, but this is still just the fucking Presidency we're talking about here.

[The Brandon Stark]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Your reading comprehension is just amazing.  

The children.  The ones that are persons, not fetuses.  The ones these people vote repeatedly to fuck over once they leave a woman's woman and go from being a fetus to a person.  I've described this fucking over of children in several posts.

My reading comprehension is amazing, The fucking over are the children that are aborted. Any child born is not fucked over, they get to live. The ones that are fetuses are the actual ones that get fucked over.