Lord Rickard Stark had king's blood...

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I don't think that there is real magical power in "Kings Blood" at all. I think there is blood magic, which can be performed with anyones blood. Now, I think there is something magical in Targaryen (Dragon Lord) blood, something which allows Dragon Bonding. And that there is something magical in other peoples blood say Wargs, or seer's or say a Skinchanger. But this magic is just about their abilities. The "magic" Mel speaks of in kings blood is in terms of the social power of sacrificing a king I think. Because killing "Mance" serves no purpose other than to make a big show to the Wildlings about who is in charge. Where does power lie and all of that bumf. 

 

[devilish]

31 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

ill 

[devilish]

15 hours ago, estermonty python said:

I'm not really sure what this means.  Armor is armor.  Swords are used to attack the peasants who aren't wearing armor, and to attack the weak points in the armor of those who are wearing it.  If you are saying that there are points in the story where a non-VS steel sword pierces armor in an unrealistic way, I'll take you at your word, but I'd chalk that up to poetic license more than steel having different physical properties than in the real world.

In GRRM swords play a dominate role with leggendary swordsmen being hailed as great warriors. However in the medieval warfare, swords played a very minor role. The reason being that it lacked reach as opposed to halberds and it couldn't pierce full plate armour. Most of the time Swords were relegated to mere sidearms to use if a knight lost his main weapon or a form of defense if he's attacked suddenly (you can carry a sword but imagine yourself walking in the streets with a frigging harberd or war hammer)

Assuming that swords are so effective in Planetos then we also assume that armour is far less effective there then in real life. If its vulnerable to a sword then it must be vulnerable to fire especially if that fire is set by an expert pyromancer.

[devilish]

15 hours ago, estermonty python said:

There are more than that.  Aerion Brightflame died drinking wildfyre.  Rhaenyra was fed to Sunfyre - which means she was cooked first (dragons don't eat raw meat).  For that matter Quentyn has some Targ blood, and he was roasted pretty damn good.  

There were also something like 7 dragon eggs at Summerhall when Aegon died, and none of them hatched.  So to say that's a stretch is an understatement.  

Dragons did hatched after Rhaenyra's death and Aerion wasn't a king but a prince

 

[Jon Fossoway]

I do think that the First Men king's blood had magical properties. Specially the Starks who apparently 'absorbed' a lot of other magical kings in the past (Warg King, Marsh King, Barrow King). But I also suspect it has something to do with their crown and or whatever item they used to carry around. It's like when you need to have some stuff to be magical: the blood, the crown, the title. When Torrhen Stark gave up his crown and title he lost these items, but the blood. Forward to the present, Robb was crowned King in the North again but he was killed and if his child is also killed, there it goes to dust again.

Stannis case is different. Even if the Baratheons exiled or vanquished most of the Targs, both families share common ancestry so both their lines are magical in conjurer eye, and besides when Bob snatched the throne his family got also the "items" in possession. It doesn't work the same with the Lannisters. I'm guessing a blood ritual with a Barannister kid would go awfully wrong. Same with Melisandre burning Craster child at the Wall for whatever purpose, thinking it is Mance's. 

So back to Rickard, I don't think his -dormant- magical blood it's enough being just a Lord of Winterfell. It's more than being the great-great-great-great-great grandson of a King; it has something to do with the current validity of that King's title. At the time of his death, the King in the North was no more. And at best, he was tortured to death, along with Brandon. Aerys was not known as a sorceror, he was a sadistic ass.

[YOVMO]

2 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

All fine, but if GRRM introduces ewoks in A Dream of Spring, I'll lose my shit. 

Grrm won't but the show might. I can see the force ghosts of Robert, Ned and Jon Arryn (played by Haden Christensen) smiling approvingly while the children of the forest do an ewok dance and dragons fly overhead as Dany and Jon kiss. 

[YOVMO]

8 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I do think that the First Men king's blood had magical properties. Specially the Starks who apparently 'absorbed' a lot of other magical kings in the past (Warg King, Marsh King, Barrow King). But I also suspect it has something to do with their crown and or whatever item they used to carry around. It's like when you need to have some stuff to be magical: the blood, the crown, the title. When Torrhen Stark gave up his crown and title he lost these items, but the blood. Forward to the present, Robb was crowned King in the North again but he was killed and if his child is also killed, there it goes to dust again.

Stannis case is different. Even if the Baratheons exiled or vanquished most of the Targs, both families share common ancestry so both their lines are magical in conjurer eye, and besides when Bob snatched the throne his family got also the "items" in possession. It doesn't work the same with the Lannisters. I'm guessing a blood ritual with a Barannister kid would go awfully wrong. Same with Melisandre burning Craster child at the Wall for whatever purpose, thinking it is Mance's. 

So back to Rickard, I don't think his -dormant- magical blood it's enough being just a Lord of Winterfell. It's more than being the great-great-great-great-great grandson of a King; it has something to do with the current validity of that King's title. At the time of his death, the King in the North was no more. And at best, he was tortured to death, along with Brandon. Aerys was not known as a sorceror, he was a sadistic ass.

I think the blood + item is an interesting one. Do you think this could somehow have bearing on Sword of the Morning + Dawn. I am still a little put out by how one knows that a particular Dayne knight is worthy of Dawn and have always felt that it has to be more than whim of the current Lord Dayne or some kind of obstacle course combined with the SAT (sword of the morning aptitude test). Maybe something about the blood of particular Daynes that sort of activates dawn?

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

3 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

Grrm won't but the show might. I can see the force ghosts of Robert, Ned and Jon Arryn (played by Haden Christensen) smiling approvingly while the children of the forest do an ewok dance and dragons fly overhead as Dany and Jon kiss.

To be honest, I started off hating this idea, but now I definitely want it to happen.

Bran can fly a dragon while shouting "YIPPIE"

[rotting sea cow]

3 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

All fine, but if GRRM introduces ewoks in A Dream of Spring, I'll lose my shit. 

One of my wishes for the series is that Tyrion has to deal with grumkins and snarks in some way. After how much he japes in the first books, it would be a nice irony.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

2 hours ago, devilish said:

2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

ill 

?

[devilish]

2 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

?

Apologies but this forum doesn't allow me to delete a quote I quoted by mistake.

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Ah, no worries. I do that A lot! 

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

Should we believe in durrandon god's blood? Over the top, but so is stark warging blood or targ valyrian blood, it's fantasy after all... If the children, wights, dragons and giants existed so did Elenei in my book, but does that enter stannis's equation? too far in time for even mel's knowledge

[YOVMO]

2 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

To be honest, I started off hating this idea, but now I definitely want it to happen.

Bran can fly a dragon while shouting "YIPPIE"

I think what you want him to say is "YEAHHH"

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXE4MEzqa8U

[estermonty python]

3 hours ago, devilish said:

Dragons did hatched after Rhaenyra's death and Aerion wasn't a king but a prince

 

The only dragon born after the Dance of Dragons was the unnamed misshapen dragon during the reign of Aegon III that died almost immediately.  

[YOVMO]

4 minutes ago, estermonty python said:

The only dragon born after the Dance of Dragons was the unnamed misshapen dragon during the reign of Aegon III that died almost immediately.  

Do we know to whom that dragon was born. I have always wondered if that dragon is just a story about the last dragon or if there is something to it that we haven't got yet. I mean, "the last dragon" should be a cool story and may have some kind of insight. I am pretty sure that the dragons getting smaller have very little to do with their captivity. I would love to have the death of dragons fleshed out.

[devilish]

10 minutes ago, estermonty python said:

The only dragon born after the Dance of Dragons was the unnamed misshapen dragon during the reign of Aegon III that died almost immediately.  

there you are. A weak dragon would emerge from a weak sacrifice (Rhaenyra was a shell of her former self)

Also note that in 3 of the occasions mentioned (tragedy of Summerhall, Viserys death and Danny walking Drogo pyre) there were fossilised dragon eggs in close proximity. Aegon thought that he would be able to bring back to live and Melisandre thought that king's blood could raise the 'stone' dragon.

 

 

 

 

[estermonty python]

 

27 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

Do we know to whom that dragon was born. I have always wondered if that dragon is just a story about the last dragon or if there is something to it that we haven't got yet. I mean, "the last dragon" should be a cool story and may have some kind of insight. I am pretty sure that the dragons getting smaller have very little to do with their captivity. I would love to have the death of dragons fleshed out.

I don't think we do.  We just know that Aegon III was blamed for it, since he was terrified of dragons after seeing his mother devoured by one.  

24 minutes ago, devilish said:

Melisandre thought that king's blood could raise the 'stone' dragon.

One thing that is interesting to me is that no dragons were born once the ruling Targ lineage passed from Aegon III's line to Viserys II's line.  Aegon III's lineage continued through his daughters, so current descendants of his line are/were House Blackfyre (presumably extinct), House Plumm, House Penrose, and House Longwaters.  That means that Melisandre/Stannis murdered not just one (Renly) but two men with king's blood, as Courtnay Penrose was a legitimate descendant of Aegon III.  

It may be that the fact that Brown Ben has not one but two drops of dragon blood in him helps him bond with Viserion, as Viserys Plumm was 100% Targ, as the likely son of Aegon IV and Eleana, daughter of Aegon III.  

What does all this mean?  NO idea, other than obviously Rennifer Longwaters will ride Rhaegal, and a Dream of Spring will basically just be a literary remake of King Ralph starring John Goodman as Rennifer Longwaters sitting the Iron Throne.

[BalerionTheCat]

I like the idea of Summerhall awakening the Others. It looks like the necromancy practices contributing to the first Long Night (according to TWoIaF). However, the Others' return was already decided (or near inevitable). Because the wood witch had already prophesied the PTWP would be born of Rhaella and Aerys II. And Mance was gathering the Free Folk for quite some time. Maybe he also had a prophecy or some signs, not long after Summerhall.

[Jon Fossoway]

11 hours ago, YOVMO said:

I think the blood + item is an interesting one. Do you think this could somehow have bearing on Sword of the Morning + Dawn. I am still a little put out by how one knows that a particular Dayne knight is worthy of Dawn and have always felt that it has to be more than whim of the current Lord Dayne or some kind of obstacle course combined with the SAT (sword of the morning aptitude test). Maybe something about the blood of particular Daynes that sort of activates dawn?

The Daynes are too cloudy for me to tap into, but my preliminary impression was that Dawn is a champion's sword. Since it is not hereditary, it isn't neither a sword that passes necessarily from a living Dayne to another nor a sword that needs to be constantly attached to a bearer. The text is very clear about this, only a dude who is awesome enough can wield it. Chances are that before Arthur Dayne, the sword rested quietly in Starfall, awaiting an awesome Dayne dude. I used the word champion trying to cover the pre-andal and andal time. This being said, until we get more information about the Daynes internal mechanics, I'm inclined to think Dawn is just a sword. An awesome, Tentetsutou kind of sword, but a sword only fit for a champion.